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That list is very similar to the one I'm currently experimenting with, you are basically just swapping bonekrushas for dreads.

Some things I learned:
- One KFF mek and morkanaut is plenty to cover your entire army. You don't really need the extra KFF and the two meks will be left in the dust once the army has made its first turn.
- I think I have yet to repair anything with a mek, pretty much anything is dead if targeted or nowhere near a mek.
- I had great success with a killsaw on the warbiker nob, ignoring all armor for a vehicle and instant-killing primaris marine can make the difference for a unit that doesn't do a lot of damage when there is no chaff to shoot.
- Something I had a lot of trouble with was taking out units with good saves. In future, I'll bring a weird boy just for the smite.
- Exhaust Cloud is usually a waste of CP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Why drop the Snazz for another KBB? I like the idea of -1 to hit, 4+ explosion and the anti-chaff is roughly the same but has greater range?

Don't forget the random range on the explosion. I hope you have better luck with your snazzwagon, but mine hasn't even been a competition for the KBB on the table. -1 to hit never mattered, because it would only be shot to score a maelstrom objective and ignored otherwise.

At range, they're roughly the same. But the KBB is WAY better anti-chaff in close, because of its Burnas. It also has a Spiked Ram, which can also help whittle down a chaff unit. The KBB is also slightly better against Marines, due to D2 rather than D1 on its main gun.

Thanks both, I'll add Killsaw to biker Nob. Last game my KBB killed 2 banshees and nothing else. It hit NOTHING with its rivet gun all game On KFF perhaps I should swap Mork for Gorkanaut? Also adds chaff clear.

All - do you reckon there's any play with a 'Mek Vehicle repairomatic Orkapalooza' list or should I give up? I have a (nicely painted, if I do say so myself) Weirdboy I was thinking of taking for jumping Meks where needed. I'm taking KFF ones because they're now our cheapest repair option outside of minimeks (but one wound repair seems meh).

So, loving flashgitz and their points to damage output atm but keeping them alive can be tricky. Having mek guns or koptas near them to use loot it is pretty handy as is havimg a bunch of grots around to use grot shields.

But ive been thinking. What about a defence line? Keep them right behind it and a unit or two of grots between the line and them. In theory the grots would be out of los but still usable for grot shields. And after loot it your gitz have a 2+.

Thoughts?

 flandarz wrote:
At range, they're roughly the same. But the KBB is WAY better anti-chaff in close, because of its Burnas. It also has a Spiked Ram, which can also help whittle down a chaff unit. The KBB is also slightly better against Marines, due to D2 rather than D1 on its main gun.

I know that's pretty much what I wrote a couple of month ago, but from playing a pair of KBBs a couple of times, the best way of using them seems to be driving up to some objective campers like scouts, rangers or similar and unload all the low range stuff on them - then use the rivet gun to hurt targets which really don't like getting shot by 2 damage weapons, like primaris, T7 or less vehicles or characters. Since their melee isn't worth anything, I only use the spiked ram to assassinate characters or finish off units/vehicles. I really want to have the KBBs shooting all game, and not fighting some chaff with WS4+ and no AP.

I definitely want multiple KBBs now. Probably gonna proxy my Snazzwagon as one for awhile, since i never plan to use the Snazz anyway. Its still terrible imo.
Though i keep having like 40-60pts short of 2k lol and its REALLY irritating me. Perhaps its time i made some mek gunz...

Have my copy of CA.

No sign of the Big Mek w/ KFF datasheet, nor the Biker Warboss Datasheet (I assume we just use the Index one for now).

Pretty dumb. I'm sure it's similar, but it could have some interesting new wargear options that might be nice to preview.

@Cody: Gitz don't have the best range, so hiding them behind a Defense Line AND Grots is gonna severely limit what they can shoot. A savvy opponent will just stay outside that 24" (less with all that bubblewrapping) range until the Gitz are dead. Gitz work best as a mobile gunline; in a Trukk, footslogging with Grots, or Da Jumped where you need them.

@Jid: That's fair. I was just pointing out that it was an option, and one the Snazzwagon sorely lacks.

If my Boyz are armed with Tankbusta Bombs can you use the grenade stratagem to chuck up to 10 of them? Because that seems potentially quite potent.

Not quite.

Only 1 boy per 10 can take tankbustas, so you can only throw a max of 3 tankbustas and 7 stikkbombs with that stratagem.

Tankbustas on the other hand you can throw 10 tankbusta bombs.

@Flanderz A solid point to be sure. But this combo of hidden grots and bait smasha guns for loot it can ensure your gitz live past the first turn. After that they can move up the field or react to enemies that are moving to take mid field objectives. I think for me they're meant to form the anchor of sorts while other units flank or hunt objectives.

I had never thought of using mek guns or deffkoptas for loot it, I had only considered trukks, wagons and enemy vehicles.

Now I'm considering bait mek guns and a full unit of 30 'ard boys, loot it for 4+ saves and then endless green tide in behind the enemy (or jump if they still have enough to survive!). Enemy will always go for mek guns, and will then find the 'ard boys are 'arder, and then might struggle to kill them.

Thinking bloodaxe for a 3+ save on boys! Aegis for a 2+!!!

Thanks for the reply, that’s good to know.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Thanks both, I'll add Killsaw to biker Nob. Last game my KBB killed 2 banshees and nothing else. It hit NOTHING with its rivet gun all game On KFF perhaps I should swap Mork for Gorkanaut? Also adds chaff clear.

All - do you reckon there's any play with a 'Mek Vehicle repairomatic Orkapalooza' list or should I give up? I have a (nicely painted, if I do say so myself) Weirdboy I was thinking of taking for jumping Meks where needed. I'm taking KFF ones because they're now our cheapest repair option outside of minimeks (but one wound repair seems meh).

If you already have 2 KFFs and you're evil sunz, so no re-rolls on kustom mega weapons, I think the gork is maybe the best option. Definitely worths a try, at least.

I play vehicles heavy so the ability of repairing something comes to play very often. Not that it makes some huge difference anyway, but I take SAG big meks and KMB meks only for their shooting and to fill up mandatory slots; the repairing ability is just a free bonus, not something to build a list around it.

KBB aren't great but just good. Their main weapon looks powerful on paper but orks have BS5+, never forget that. However at 80ppm they're considerably cheaper than other buggies and the rivet kannon doesn't compete with many other weapons so they have their niche. The other two most efficient buggies are anti tank kitted instead, for an army that have plenty of options for that role.

 some bloke wrote:
I had never thought of using mek guns or deffkoptas for loot it, I had only considered trukks, wagons and enemy vehicles.

Now I'm considering bait mek guns and a full unit of 30 'ard boys, loot it for 4+ saves and then endless green tide in behind the enemy (or jump if they still have enough to survive!). Enemy will always go for mek guns, and will then find the 'ard boys are 'arder, and then might struggle to kill them.

Thinking bloodaxe for a 3+ save on boys! Aegis for a 2+!!!

Aegis doesn't stack with bloodaxe trait, and blood axe trait doesn't work if the enemy is within 18", which is kind of bad for a unit with melee focus and 18" guns.

If you can make loot it+'ard boyz work, go for it. I haven't tried yet, but that doesn't mean it won't work.

 some bloke wrote:
I had never thought of using mek guns or deffkoptas for loot it, I had only considered trukks, wagons and enemy vehicles.

Now I'm considering bait mek guns and a full unit of 30 'ard boys, loot it for 4+ saves and then endless green tide in behind the enemy (or jump if they still have enough to survive!). Enemy will always go for mek guns, and will then find the 'ard boys are 'arder, and then might struggle to kill them.

Thinking bloodaxe for a 3+ save on boys! Aegis for a 2+!!!

I've actually run this for quite a number of games. I actually went deffskulls though I tried blood axes and it can work well too. The increased offensive capacity of deffskullz was better in my opinion.

List is a brigade with something like 3x30 shoota boyz all with with 'ard boyz strat, 30 odd gretchin, then 3 deffkoptas, a couple of buggies, a meganob missile with meks with kustommega guns on-board with grot oilers for ablative wounds, a few smashas, warboss on bike with killa klaw + a few variable bits and pieces such as kans or deffdread. Weird boy was mostly to da jump gretchin into good positions.

All your fast things with vehicle key words you run up the board asap, making it look as threatening as possible, if people shoot the boyz you pop the grot shield strat and people often get fed up and shoot the more immediate threats, the vehicles. You make sure each vehicle is close enough to boyz be looted though. Each turn you loot up one vehicle and make 30 boyz 4+ save and give them a grot shield unit of gretchin as body guards. Now the opponent needs to put a decent amount of effort into removing them (certainly not impossible but they can be quite durable). When the unit is down to almost 10, you pop them in a ruin near an objective. I pop a klaw on the boss nob in each squad as with defskulls it has often done some decent work, though not necessarily reliably. They put out a little damage from mid field and have a decent melee threat range from the ruins giving good board control froma position of strength. Turn 3 I usually end up with 2 squads of about 15 odd boyz in a ruin on an objective rolling 3+ saves against most anti-infantry weaponry. I have managed it on all 3 units before, but 2 is usually the figure. As the deathwatch player commented, "my god its like you've got 20 marines on each of those objectives", which in turn 1 wouldn't be that hard to shift but by turn 3 can cause serious issues if you gave proper target priority to shooting phases, your meganobz (occasionally they do make it into combat!) and your missile of death that is the warboss on bike. Not sure if this list is valid now (can we still use the warboss on bike?) as I've not played it for a few months.

I've played against pretty competitive lists, DE, castellan (pre-nerf) + AM mortar spam + custodies captains, ynnari reaper spam (pre beta-codex) and a lot of more casual list some of which seem like potential hard counters (death watch) and I've had some good games. Certainly not won them all, castellan list beat me of course, but I took the castellan down, and the captains as well as most the guard before finally loosing on points.

Give it a whirl, its fun to play as long as you are playing a meta which isn't all about the best of the best lists and my favourite part of all, you get to play a ton of different units that you don't care if they die early.

I did write a report of some the games I played, but it was rather verbose so I decided not to post. I can do if anyone would be interested.

This might have been mentioned earlier but is it possible to run Flash Gitz in a dread Waaagh kulture. Shoot with them, on a six shoot again, 2cp shoot normally again, on a six shoot again with the potential of shooting 4 times.

 some bloke wrote:
I had never thought of using mek guns or deffkoptas for loot it, I had only considered trukks, wagons and enemy vehicles.

Now I'm considering bait mek guns and a full unit of 30 'ard boys, loot it for 4+ saves and then endless green tide in behind the enemy (or jump if they still have enough to survive!). Enemy will always go for mek guns, and will then find the 'ard boys are 'arder, and then might struggle to kill them.

Thinking bloodaxe for a 3+ save on boys! Aegis for a 2+!!!

One issue is what if opponent doesn't bother with mek guns before blowing up boyz first? Albeit 4+ helps but not that much especially with ignore cover stuff around.

Also does loot it carry on with greentide? Generally it resets ingame buffs. After all thematically it's more of same type, not same ones risen from grave

As others have said: using Loot It on Blood Axe 'Ard Boyz probably won't work out. There's a few issues with it. First, you've now spent 2 CP to give your unit a 4+ Save in a meta where dealing with Marines means pretty much all anti-infantry weapons are throwing out AP-2. Second, Mek Gunz are only threatening against mechanized lists, so if your opponent is fielding infantry (again, this is a Marine Meta, so a fair number of lists are gonna be heavy on infantry units), they won't bother with your Smashas. Third, if your opponent is savvy, they ain't gonna give you a chance to use Loot It in this way. Gitz in a Trukk can work because your opponent doesn't have an option to shoot your Infantry first. Boyz on the table doesn't work as well.

Loot It SHOULD carry over with EGT because it changes the Save Characteristic of the unit. Looking at EGT, it says to set the unit back up at full starting strength, rather than "set up a new unit of Boyz". Since it's mechanically the same unit, any Buffs (such as Loot It or Warpath) that are affecting the unit should still carry over, in the same way that they carry over when you Da Jump a unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hogiebear wrote:
This might have been mentioned earlier but is it possible to run Flash Gitz in a dread Waaagh kulture. Shoot with them, on a six shoot again, 2cp shoot normally again, on a six shoot again with the potential of shooting 4 times.

Gitz don't gain the DREAD WAAGH Keyword, so they can't use Kustom Ammo.

Gitz can be in the Dread Waaagh but like Flandarz said they dont get the keyword, only meks and walkers get that. And that specific strat requires the keyword.

Im hoping when they inevitably give orks the custom kulture thing theyre giving everyone else they fix blood axes and snake bites. They are so useless atm. Having cover army-wise when our saves suck is nice until you see the range limited is way too long for all except our few backfield units, which are usually already in cover anyway.

The only use I came up with for Snakebites is in a Kan wall list to mitigate their extremely poor LD. But even then you'd be playing a list that is both bad and horribly unfluffy. But looking over what some of the others got from their PA I'm not holding my breath on it suddenly making our weak clans worthwhile.

Honestly, LD6 ain't that bad. Not for Kanz anyway. Generally, they're gonna either wipe (or nearly wipe) the whole unit (because Kanz), or they'll ignore them. In the former situation, you're probably best off just trying your luck in that last Kan (who still has a 16.6% chance to pass Morale with a max-size Kan unit). Even assuming your opponent only takes out half the unit (3 in a 6 Kan squad) you still got a 50% chance to lose no one else to Morale, which would probably be worth a Command reroll, rather than devoting a character and Warlord trait to babysitting them.

But all of that is quite aside from how subpar the unit still is. They're not that tough, not that killy, and pretty dang slow. I don't know if the point drop was really enough to make them worth fielding (though I guess 180 pts for 30 T5 3++ Wounds isn't awful...).

it really isnt.
We were talking about this before CA19, Kanz either need access to kultures or need to be as cheap as MANz or even cheaper to justify the fact that they dont have amazing shooting, unreliable (yet strong) melee, slow, squishy, and have virtually no rules or stratagems to speak of.

Bloodaxe culture I can see some uses for - I am planning to use it for a list with 2 battlewagons and 3 killtanks (or vice versa) so that I can't get bogged down in combat too easily. Increased killyness without the drawbacks of falling back and not shooting - I can move, shoot, charge, stop an enemy unit from shooting because of the charge, inflict mortal wounds, and if still in combat in my turn I can fall back and still shoot. Turn 1 cover for kill tanks gives them a passable save and from then on it's just fluke if they're over 18" away.

Snakebites I see as moderate for high wound models like stompas, gargantuan squiggoths, and kill tanks - in short, some of our worst units. But as these will be the ones targeted by D6 damage weapons, having 6+++ will be better than a deffskulls 6++, especially couples with a KFF. Snakebites are renowned for having the biggest tanks, right?


...right?

thats pretty much the reasoning i use House Taranis for my knights when i field them along my admech.
That 6+++ on a high wound model is annoying, it generally keeps it alive a full turn longer than it should. The amount of times that has kept my knight at 1 wound so i get another turn with it is laughable.

Sadly, knight a stompa is not. Still about 150pts overpriced.

Also, 3 killtanks? jeez thats terrifying to think of (also what 1300pts?)

List that leans into slogging gits in a push up the board. Keep the Grots, gits under KFF, and keep painboy aura on them plus the mega nobs aiming for the Center / their end.

Couple concerns:
1) my distraction boy squad isn’t worth it
2) My SSAG, SAG, and Mek guns are all I have for destroying vehicles.

I’d also love to squeeze in a deff kopta or two as a possible loot it bait for the gits. Not in love with all these Mek guns, but it’s my cheapest anti tank I can buy without bad moons.

Tulun, you might wanna update battlescribe.
10x flashgitz should be 248pts not 308.
And Smashas went up 2pts

You have 40pts not being used atm. Shed the extra random grotz you could squeeze a kopta w/ rokkits in there.
(note: Biker boss is "Legends" now. Basically if you allowed Index before hes still legal but note that he has DakkaDakkaDakka now properly)

Biker Boss isn't Legends (no datasheet in there). No idea why he isn't, but speculation is that he'll be released with a KFF Mek sometime in the future.

Technically we have a Warboss on Biker profile at 95 points as an official option in the CA FW section for Orks, though the problem is that we technically don't have a datasheet for that, but I think most people would be fine with using the Index profile for that in the time being.

right, derp, forgot hes FW now not legends.