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Hello everyone , just a quick question or should I say questions regarding drybrushing / washing. I'm looking to start painting a few of my first models (Plaguebearers) and need to ask a little advice !

My first question is about drybrushing , I want to achieve a less grainy effect to the models finish after the process of drybrushing. I have done a few test models so far and found a colour for the skin that I find suitable. I'm starting with a white prime , followed by a thin layer of Vallejo Ivory , again followed with a drybrush of Vallejo Off White. I'm going for a light winter style theme to the models so want to stay at this shade , the problem I'm having is that the drybrush effect looks a little too grainy for my liking ! Is there a way that I can make it look a little more subtle ?

Also I'm thinking of using washes in certain areas of the models with citadel colours , I'd just like to ask if there is a particular need to use paint thinner such as Liquitex over water dilution ?

Thanks PlagueOfWinter.

Afaik there is no way to remove that effect from drybrushing. You need to be careful with that technique, since it is appropriate only in rare cases and circumstances. It gives you a result quickly, but as you already noticed, it does, at least in this use, not produce the best results.

It depends honestly. Some shades like Nuln Oil or Biel Tan Green (from my own experience) dry almost WHITE in places if used with water. For these, you'd need an acrylic medium like Liquitex. Serphim Sepia, on the other hand, doesn't seem to have this effect...

PlagueOfWinter wrote:
Hello everyone , just a quick question or should I say questions regarding drybrushing / washing. I'm looking to start painting a few of my first models (Plaguebearers) and need to ask a little advice !

My first question is about drybrushing , I want to achieve a less grainy effect to the models finish after the process of drybrushing. I have done a few test models so far and found a colour for the skin that I find suitable. I'm starting with a white prime , followed by a thin layer of Vallejo Ivory , again followed with a drybrush of Vallejo Off White. I'm going for a light winter style theme to the models so want to stay at this shade , the problem I'm having is that the drybrush effect looks a little too grainy for my liking ! Is there a way that I can make it look a little more subtle ?

Also I'm thinking of using washes in certain areas of the models with citadel colours , I'd just like to ask if there is a particular need to use paint thinner such as Liquitex over water dilution ?

Thanks PlagueOfWinter.

get the paint as dry as possible will help a bit. minimize the amount of paint on your brush - wipe it off on a paper towel.

It is still a bad looking technique when examined up close.

its best used only on basing, skeleton bones, hair, fur, hoses etc. avoid on smooth surfaces.

Thank you guys , I would go through the layering process , but I just never seem to get it looking smooth and neat with the colour white , is there any other ways to achieve a shaded white skin look on them ?

Part of the problem with drybrushing is also based on the color choices as well. Lighter colors, especially the more white in the color, create the chalkier look as well as using too much paint.
If drybrushing is your choice, take it VERY slow. Clean the brush with a paper towel until there is almost zero visible paint appearing on the towel or seen on the brush.. There will still be trace amounts. Don't rush it, and you will see the color begin to brighten and appear on the model the more passes you make..
Another possible option since you are working with a white primer, is to work backwards and work from the highlight into the shadows. Using washes and similar technique avoiding the top or 'whitest' highlight.
Citadel paints are water based so you can thin with basic water (distilled is best). Additives (not familiar with 'liquitex') can be used mostly to slow drying for wet blending and similar uses but are not necessary.

I avoid drybrushing because it's really hard to get any fine control with it. I tend to save it for bases and terrain and such. I have had some luck with adding retarder to my paint when I'm going to do a drybrush. It does tend to lessen the chalkiness problem.

As for thinning, you can thin your paint with water just fine. I use medium because I like to create very thin layer coats and you can get very transparent colors with medium that are more difficult with just water.

 Dullspork wrote:
I avoid drybrushing because it's really hard to get any fine control with it. I tend to save it for bases and terrain and such. I have had some luck with adding retarder to my paint when I'm going to do a drybrush. It does tend to lessen the chalkiness problem.

As for thinning, you can thin your paint with water just fine. I use medium because I like to create very thin layer coats and you can get very transparent colors with medium that are more difficult with just water.

Im not understanding how adding retarder is helping? surely that keeps your paints wetter longer, and thus is the exact opposite of what drybrushing is about?

I find the secret to drybrushing is entirely in the amount of paint being used. basically everyone uses far too much (especially myself), which exagerates the chalky look. The idea (the way I see it) Is that you actually want it to take a few hundred or more strokes of the brush before the effect is highly noticable so that you can actually build it up very very slowly.
Most people seem to choose to drybrush because its either quicker, or they lack brush control skills, but its really not faster if you want a fine result out of it. Its just as slow and time consuming as painting in layers or wet blending. And similarly it takes quite a lot more control over how much paint is loaded on the brush, how dry that paint is right now this second, how hard/heavy handed you are, patience etc. When done right one can achieve gradients every bit as nice as an airbrushed one. Its just not easy, its actually easier to wet blend in some cases.

All techniques are good, useful and difficult to do well/master. There is no instant easy option, sorry.

HairySticks wrote:

 Dullspork wrote:
I avoid drybrushing because it's really hard to get any fine control with it. I tend to save it for bases and terrain and such. I have had some luck with adding retarder to my paint when I'm going to do a drybrush. It does tend to lessen the chalkiness problem.

As for thinning, you can thin your paint with water just fine. I use medium because I like to create very thin layer coats and you can get very transparent colors with medium that are more difficult with just water.

Im not understanding how adding retarder is helping? surely that keeps your paints wetter longer, and thus is the exact opposite of what drybrushing is about?

I find the secret to drybrushing is entirely in the amount of paint being used. basically everyone uses far too much (especially myself), which exagerates the chalky look. The idea (the way I see it) Is that you actually want it to take a few hundred or more strokes of the brush before the effect is highly noticable so that you can actually build it up very very slowly.
Most people seem to choose to drybrush because its either quicker, or they lack brush control skills, but its really not faster if you want a fine result out of it. Its just as slow and time consuming as painting in layers or wet blending. And similarly it takes quite a lot more control over how much paint is loaded on the brush, how dry that paint is right now this second, how hard/heavy handed you are, patience etc. When done right one can achieve gradients every bit as nice as an airbrushed one. Its just not easy, its actually easier to wet blend in some cases.

All techniques are good, useful and difficult to do well/master. There is no instant easy option, sorry.

I'm using a minimal amount of paint on my drybrush , almost to the point where I'm getting less than 10% of what originally was on the brush coming into contact with the model. Maybe I should have phrased my second question slightly differently. What I'm looking to do with the Liquitex / water thinning is to achieve a almost wash style paint that I can use for a very subtle shade. I was trying to do this using paints such as GW Krieg Khaki to give a little depth whilst still keeping an original tone , is this the wrong method to use ?

Thank you for all of the replies !

Smooth drybrush finishes rely on:

1) a very low paint volume- very, very little on the brush.
2) a soft brush. Not stiff bristles.
3) low contrast between layers. More mixes makes for a smoother result.
4) each successive layer needs to be a touch lighter (in application, not colour) than the preceding.

It's slow, painstaking work. If you're planning something that needs a lot of this, seriously consider an airbrush.

winterdyne wrote:
It's slow, painstaking work. If you're planning something that needs a lot of this, seriously consider an airbrush.

This is a large part of the reason why I bought an airbrush. I discovered that you can drybrush something to look like it was airbrushed. Using a nice soft drybrush and getting damned near all the paint off the brush before starting... but it takes aggggges.

You have to work your way up slowly, and it helps to use washes in between to soften the transitions. Drybrush, wash, drybrush slightly lighter, wash, drybrush slightly lighter again, wash, etc.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

winterdyne wrote:
It's slow, painstaking work. If you're planning something that needs a lot of this, seriously consider an airbrush.

This is a large part of the reason why I bought an airbrush. I discovered that you can drybrush something to look like it was airbrushed. Using a nice soft drybrush and getting damned near all the paint off the brush before starting... but it takes aggggges.

You have to work your way up slowly, and it helps to use washes in between to soften the transitions. Drybrush, wash, drybrush slightly lighter, wash, drybrush slightly lighter again, wash, etc.

Do you find using an airbrush hard to use , I currently have an order in for an Iwata Eclipse airbrush , but I'm not so sure that I'll be able to control it that well on smaller models ? Also is there any particular washes that you can recommend for this particular colour scheme ?

PlagueOfWinter wrote:
Do you find using an airbrush hard to use , I currently have an order in for an Iwata Eclipse airbrush , but I'm not so sure that I'll be able to control it that well on smaller models ? Also is there any particular washes that you can recommend for this particular colour scheme ?

I only just started airbrushing literally this week and only painted half a dozen models so far, lol. But personally I'm finding it pretty easy to do basic stuff (like "drybrush" effects). More advanced stuff that requires fine control of pressure and intensity within a stroke I don't yet have the brush control to do, and it takes a little while to get your head around aiming it as well.

Of course, your mileage will vary, I'm sure part of the reason I've picked it up quickly is I have a bit of experience with regular brush painting, if you were new to painting and trying to learn airbrushing as well, it might take you a bit longer to get the hang of it.

You can see my first crack at airbrushing in this thread, I just spent a couple of hours practicing on paper before I tried to paint this model and I feel it came out pretty good, better than anything I could do with a manual brush:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/573546.page

As for colour selection, can't really help you. The only paint range I know well is the old GW range, anything else and I'm just learning myself. Still trying to figure out the best colours for my Wolves

Dryburshing with oils paints produces a nice smooth effect. Mix your oils with a bit of artists wax, and pallet your oils on a piece of cardboard, and the effects are quite smooth and soft looking.

The lighter blues and browns were done using this method

I use watered down washes (try the current GW glazes although there are only 4 colours) to tone down the graininess.
Another method is to go straight to the highlight colour then use a colour wash to shade the model & leave it at that - ie no drybrushing.
You can use your base colour mixed with water & either Vallejo glaze medium or GWs Lahmian medium to make the right colour wash.

A quick note about drybrushing. The effect is very specific and is really only appropriate depending on the end result for which you are looking. I always used a strong base color, then a wash, then a heavy dry brush of the original color. Then a light drybrush of the base color that has been lightened up. The end result is a look that is work but with depth. There are some great blending techniques out there but they tend to have a flat look to them.

Use whatever technique that works best for you.

ender502

HairySticks wrote:

 Dullspork wrote:
I avoid drybrushing because it's really hard to get any fine control with it. I tend to save it for bases and terrain and such. I have had some luck with adding retarder to my paint when I'm going to do a drybrush. It does tend to lessen the chalkiness problem.

As for thinning, you can thin your paint with water just fine. I use medium because I like to create very thin layer coats and you can get very transparent colors with medium that are more difficult with just water.

Im not understanding how adding retarder is helping? surely that keeps your paints wetter longer, and thus is the exact opposite of what drybrushing is about?

Drybrushing is "about" depositing paint on the highest surfaces of the model. It's not about using dry paint. The chalkiness seems to result from pigment collecting in chunks on the model. The retarder seems to smooth out the flow of pigment across the surface - much like the oils shown above. The technique itself remains unchanged when using it.