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I have heard people have been having issues with Tyranids so I decided to post a turn by turn game on here from vassal that is being played currently against a buddy from Indy.
His Army: Kairos Fateweaver
Herald of Tzeentch - Mastery Level 3, Disc of Tzeentch,
Exalted Reward, Exalted Locus of Conjuration
Herald of Tzeentch - Mastery Level 3, Disc of Tzeentch,
Exalted Reward
Herald of Tzeentch - Mastery Level 3, Disc of Tzeentch
Herald of Tzeentch - Mastery Level 3, Disc of Tzeentch
10 Plaguebearers
10 Horrors
9 Screamers
CSM Allies
Daemon Prince of Tzeentch - Power Armour, Wings, Black Mace,
Mastery Level 3, Spell Familiar
10 Cultists - Flamer
Heldrake - Hades Autocannon
Mission: Big Guns never tire 5 objectives
Deployment: Dawn of war
Night fight not active
Initiative goes to daemons... he is now deploying...
Deployment:
Spoiler:
I roll to seize and get a ! Will see if I can cripple the star early.
Nids Turn 1:
Spoiler:
I move with crones to counter his daemon prince. I focus on the screamers trying to kill some heralds... they are weakened but he made some decent saves. Both tervigons have already rolled a double to spawn.
Daemon Turn 1:
Spoiler:
Daemon prince leaves the board... all of his psychic powers go to plan.. he gets off the 11 on the warp storm on a re-roll turning my warlord into a khorne herald.
Nid turn 2:
Spoiler:
I vector with eveyrthing and leave. I cause no damage accept the herald which I shot with a tervigon. The gaunts get a huge charge off.
Daemons Turn 2:
Spoiler:
He no gak gets the same 11 on the warp storm but luckily my key dominion tervigon passes the test! Locked combat and he moves to avoid me.
Nids Turn 3:
Spoiler:
I move my MC's back on conservatively to avoid vectors from the drake when it shows. The gaunts move up to possibly support the ones in combat.. Where there is a guant there is a way. lol getting close I need to kill his troops!
Daemon Turn 3:
Spoiler:
Fateweaver moves up to kill 10 guants on the left... the daemon prince joins the combat in the middle. The tide is beginning to turn,
Nids Turn 4:
Spoiler:
Not looking good for the nids... fateweaver makes 6 straight saves to stay alive with 2. The cultist finally get killed off.
Turn 5:
Spoiler:
He charged one of my tervigons with his prince and only does 5 wounds. I roll to smash and kill the prince... however, the black mace ended up killing me with a toughness test. The result is catastrophic as i blow up the gaunts attacking fateweaver and all of the brown gaunts. To make matters worse my opponent rolls his 3rd 11 on the warp storm table turning my last tervigon into a herald. Thats two full wound models turned into heralds.
Turn 6:
Spoiler:
I try to kill his troops but he dropped the portalglyph 2 turns ago and is spawning a unit a turn to jump on objectives. Between shadow in the warp failing to affect even one of his spells and his 100% grimiore success I cant pull this one out. I at least kill fateweaver with some dakka but the game is all but spoken for.
Game results:
Spoiler:
Daemons: 2 Objectives and at least one heavy support killed as we called it there with a daemon prince in there face. Also warlord and line breaker. 9
Nids: First Blood, Warlord, Line breaker 3
Post game thoughts: After that first turn I couldnt get things going. Losing my warlord turn 1 really hurt but the pain just kept on coming. Even after fateweaver died the grimiore was still ringing true. Just had to much go wrong in this one. I dont think it mattered what army I ran. Between my opponent getting hot there for a bit and my dice turning cold it was just too much. A 2++ re-rollable unit just wrecks face. Also of the entire game I only got one deny the witch off with a tyrant. It was just a brutal outing down the stretch.
This message was edited 24 times. Last update was at 2014/02/08 06:06:53
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
Ouch. Tough game. Seems like the dice beat you this game. Not much can be done when that happens.
Yea, and as stated im sure a 100 times. Facing a unit that cant die is seriously nauseating. The shadow in the warp literally had 0 effect this game as well. It was just one thing after another refusing to do what it was suppose to do.
Leth wrote:When someone gets 3 11s on warp storm against a psychic army..... not much you can do.
Even with that happening I still think I had a decent chance with this game. I think the biggest blow came when he spawned 3 units in 3 straight turns out of the portal glygh. I was able to kill all of his troops but he spawned some into cover and there was nothing I could do to get to them thanks to the 2++ re-rollable unit defending them and the glyph.
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
Dozer Blades wrote: In all the major batreps I've read so far I find meaningful the Tyranids have been screwed by the dice. The worm is eventually going to turn.
It could also indicate that the room for error with them is so thin that an instance of bad dice hits them harder than most.
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
2014/01/25 03:41:23
Subject: Live Vassal Report 1850 Tyranids vs 1850 Daemons/CSM (ScreamStar) completed
Dozer Blades wrote: In all the major batreps I've read so far I find meaningful the Tyranids have been screwed by the dice. The worm is eventually going to turn.
It could also indicate that the room for error with them is so thin that an instance of bad dice hits them harder than most.
This has always been the case.
2014/01/25 10:01:37
Subject: Live Vassal Report 1850 Tyranids vs 1850 Daemons/CSM (ScreamStar) completed
Missing his point. Yes, bad dice hurts everyone, but bad dice doesn't hurt everyone equally. There are armies that have a lot of leeway in which a poor tactical decision or poor dice in a crucial moment might not lose you the game, or that one really vital unit. There are other armies, Dark Eldar are a good example, where such things can outright destroy any reasonable chance of winning you'd have.
Tyranids is one of those latter armies.
2014/01/25 16:35:12
Subject: Live Vassal Report 1850 Tyranids vs 1850 Daemons/CSM (ScreamStar) completed
BlaxicanX wrote:Missing his point. Yes, bad dice hurts everyone, but bad dice doesn't hurt everyone equally. There are armies that have a lot of leeway in which a poor tactical decision or poor dice in a crucial moment might not lose you the game, or that one really vital unit. There are other armies, Dark Eldar are a good example, where such things can outright destroy any reasonable chance of winning you'd have.
Tyranids is one of those latter armies.
Daemons are one of those armies too if grim fails and/or you roll negative 1 invulnerable then you can lose in one turn. Fate helps mitigate that though making them unstoppable if all their toys go off.
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
Dozer Blades wrote: In all the major batreps I've read so far I find meaningful the Tyranids have been screwed by the dice. The worm is eventually going to turn.
It could also indicate that the room for error with them is so thin that an instance of bad dice hits them harder than most.
Pretty much. Dice can screw any of us in any game. But it seems with Nids that one turn of rolling bad or one turn of your opponent rolling good is crippling. It comes off as an army where you are not allowed to make mistakes and never roll bad. With that in mind its not surprising people are running to double force orgs and covering the table is massive LOS blocking terrain to squeak wins. Not looking good for the turd polishers.
Rick Priestley said it best:
Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! The modern studio isn’t a studio in the same way; it isn’t a collection of artists and creatives sharing ideas and driving each other on. It’s become the promotions department of a toy company – things move on!
2014/01/26 02:10:38
Subject: Live Vassal Report 1850 Tyranids vs 1850 Daemons/CSM (ScreamStar) completed
I don't think Nidz are nearly that bad. Look at jy2's new batrep versus IG where he loses his bastion the first turn... Doesn't seem like a major setback.
This game was my first loss with this build. Previously they were perfect.
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
Yeah, the new tyranids are a less forgiving army than most others. A couple of bad dice could really hurt them much more than it would probably hurt Necrons, Tau or Eldar.
However, this game was clearly a case of extreme dice....losing both your Warlord and a tervigon to the warpstorm as well as failing a Toughness test on a T6 monster. Not many armies can win after losing 2-3 of their key units like that.
Dozer Blades wrote: I don't think Nidz are nearly that bad. Look at jy2's new batrep versus IG where he loses his bastion the first turn... Doesn't seem like a major setback.
Don't forget that I also lost a flyrant for First Blood and my venomthrope!
So basically it was like I was playing with a handicap without 1 flyrant, the venomthrope and the bastion!
Fast attack:
9 Shining Spears, Exarch, Star lance, Monster hunter, Hit and run
10 Warp spiders, Exarch, Deathspinner
Heavy:
2 Warwalkers, 4 x Bright lance
His powers: Warlord: Farseer, Seer of the shifting vector
Psychic powers:
Farseer: conceal/reveal, guide, mind war
Warlock Black: protect/jinx
Warlock green: conceal/reveal
My Powers:
Teal Flyrant: Warlord out flank; psychic scream; dominion
Green Flyrant: Onslaught; warp blast
Green Terv: Catalyst
Teal Terv: Dominion
Deployment:
Spoiler:
I deploy everything except 1 gaunt squad, as I won the roll for first turn. He reserves the 2 three man bike squads. He outflanks the autarch and the shining spears. As you can see I deployed a bit open. If you follow my reports at all you will know that most games that I elect to go first against tau and or eldar I get seized on. So far I have played my nids against tau and eldar each once.. both have seized on me. This leaves me somewhat vulnerable.
Turn 1:
Spoiler:
With him going first he just cast some of his powers and moves up. His only shooting is a serpent at my top crone. I get a 4+ armor against his shield and 2+ against anything else. He rolls 7 shots with the shield and does 4 wounds. I fail all 4 of those saves. Luckily I pass the 1 cover I am required to take but the MC's is practically dead already.
My turn 1 I move the wounded crone off the board. The 2 flyrants and the 2 crones move up. I attempt psychic scream but only his spiders take it killing 2 total with the combined shooting. With his shield gone i tried to shoot his wave serpent with one of the crones but fail to hit. The other crone flames 6 of his bikers. Only 2 die but they fail they're panic check. biovores out of range.
Turn 2:
Spoiler:
1 unit of bikes shows up along with his shining spears. His fleeing bikes fail to rally and run off the board giving me first blood. He proceeds to disembark all of his dire avengers and focus fire everything at my Flyrants. Even with fnp my warlord is killed off. The other hive tyrant takes 3 wounds. I rolled very poorly on saves but luckily my opponent rolled a little below average hits/wounds. The hive crones actually escape unscathed.
My turn 2 is all about getting rid of those pesky wave serpents. My crone arrives from reserves and attempts to haywire his wave serpent before the flyrant is forced to shoot it but both miss. The hive crones both vector one and the flyrant vectors the war walkers and shoots the other. I manage to kill both wave serpents. One of the hive crones flames the dire avengers killing 6 and the explosion from the vehicle kills1 more. The biovores get in on the action now too but I scatter not doing many hits or wounds. One of the crones tries to shoot his last walker with a haywire but again a miss.
Turn 3:
Spoiler:
My opponents last bike unit shows up from reserves. With some good shooting thanks to guide his bikes do a real number on the crone that fails every save he is trying to take and is grounded lol. He drops to 1 wound and then is charged by the two units of 3 bikes. I overwatch with the flamer but he makes his saves. He fails to wound me and the hive crone fails to wound a bike even though they were fearful. His spears move over and kill off the hive crone that just arrived from ongoing reserve. Failed both armor and the FnP. His dire avengers up top are the only thing set to shoot my warlord. But they hit and rend killing him.
My hive crone that is unwounded elects to turn and try to kill his warlords squad. I can actually get some attacks off as they are strung along and avoid him hitting back. Its worth a shot... or so i thought. With 4 attacks I am only able to kill 1 and he causes a wound back with a normal guy. He also did a wound in overwatch. To add insult to injury his 6 bikes beat my other hive crone in combat by dealing 4 wounds in which i fail all 4. The hive crone still did 0 wounds in return. The one save in grace is the biovores who make their presence felt as they pin his top squad and knock the other dire avengers and spiders down a couple guys.
Mid-Game Analysis:
Spoiler:
Alright so taking a 5 wound MC and charging normal bikers is apparently a bad idea. I am losing KP 5 to 4 and with his farseer and warlock both bringing witch blades at me it isnt looking good. My opponent could very well be up by 2 kp at the end of the following turn and I have 0 mobility left. My only save and grace is the biovores that can reach his troops in the open. Either way not looking good atm. Score is being kept in top left.
Turn 4:
Spoiler:
His 6 normal bikes come to pick on my hive crone as well. With so many S3 attacks the hive crone doesnt know what to do and dies, but he atleast does 1 wound to a 3 man squad. The shining spears move over and slaughter one of my biovore units. His dire avenger that is by himself runs back to his board edge along with the spiders.
I begin to advance and spawn gaunts. Its all or nothing now. I move my gaunts to encompass his shining spears and start to dakka him. I manage to expose and pick off his exarch taking away hit and run which is huge. My last biovore unit finishes off his 2 man dire avenger squad. My teal gaunts charge in and with 50 attacks I get 19 hits and... 3 wounds... then the tervigon rolls and misses with 3 smash attacks.... . He loses 1 shining spear combat is locked.
Turn 5:
Spoiler:
My opponent plays for the game to end on turn 5. With him up 2 KP but the shining spears + autarch possibly on borrowed time he turbo's into my deployment zone for line breaker. Essentially atm he is up by 3 KP. Combat is ugly again but I manage to kill 1 shining spear.
I really need something to happen here. The 10 man gaunt squad that I had spawned a turn ago shoots his 2 man bike squad and actually manages to kill them off. My other units are continuing to move up to try and get in range of his units that are running to hte back of his deployment zone. The biovores shoot the bikes as well but fail to kill them. I spawn a unit of brown gaunts and they shoot the other 3 man squad of bikers but only manage to kill one. The green gaunts make an 8" charge to join teal in combat against the shining spears. The result is I finally get the wounds i need to finish him off. The tervigon getting one wound to win the combat. I just jumped 3 VP and I am up by 1 until he officially gets line breaker. If they game ends we tie.
We roll the dice....
Turn 6:
Spoiler:
The game goes on. Nothing really changes much... he moves in with his black squad that has the farseer and warlock and they shoot then charge and kill off the newly spawned brown squad. The teal squad moves back to the bottom left corner and the black squad consolidates to block them from getting charged. KP is even but he is most likely gonna get line breaker.
I move up to try and multi-charge with my units. I send green to try and make line breaker but need near perfect moves... i string them out just in case i need them. Teal fails the charge on the black bikes leaving only my tervigon and a 10 man gaunt unit to fight him. My biovores move up and take a risky shot at his dire avenger... it scatters at first but a hit is rolled and he fails a going to ground save killing off his last dire avenger.. im up by 1 kp. In combat he makes the save from the tervigon with his warlock and i lose 2 black gaunts... nothing of note happens beyond that.
If the game ends now it is a tie. We roll the dice....
Turn 7:
Spoiler:
He moves teal over as he is most likely going to get shot to death. He charges them in to try and finish off the black gaunts. He cast protect on his squad giving them a 2+ armor save. Combat see's my tervigon finally do some damage. He does 3 wounds but the warlock saves 1. He kills the warlock and 1 bike. I lost 2 more gaunts as I make one 6+ save.
My tervigon is left out of combat so he moves down and prepares to re-charge. Teal finally comes to join the fight and green moves over to charge as well. My biovores shoot his warp spiders but he makes both saves that are needed. He tries one last time to kill the black gaunst but they are not wiped out and are fearless. I kill only 1 of his teal bikers... it comes down to my tervigon who causes 1 wound. Finishing off the last of the black squad. He holds in combat and the game ends.
Post Game Anaylsis and Results:
Spoiler:
Eldar: Warlord, line breaker, 7 kill points = 9 VP Tyranids: First Blood, 9 kill points = total 10 VP
Analysis: The hive crones did kill a wave serpent and got me first blood but they were definitely not on their game today. All in all I rolled piss poor with my monstrous creatures throughout this one. Thinking I may drop one of the hive crones and throw in a mawloc but I am a strong believer in the rule of 3. When it comes to an alpha strike army. It my take away from the list if I have only 4 flyers in someones face come turn 1. He had to pick my crones or my flyrants. Had the crones hit at all this game then they might of done more damage but as it showed they really only hit with their flamers. The tervigons are the MVP's in this one. One sniped the exarch out of the shining spears as he was left exposed. The other killed the last guy and the autarch as well as spawning the squad that killed one of his bike units. All in all it was a real close tough game but the list struggled throughout. Waiting to roll average with this army.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Finished!
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/01/27 04:53:35
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
Nice batrep. One thing I would add, is the second squad of 3 biovores.
It was a nice and tough game, there are a few things in hindsight, that were some serious blunders in judgement on my part:
1. Dire Avengers should have been kept more safely from biovore fire (in terrain maybe... ), and from Hive Crone flamers, that was sloppy spacing and placement and I did not use the battle focus in any reasonable fashion. They should have survived both.
2. The shinig spears exarch wasn't placed well even before the assault, so he got executed later, which turned the chances of survival of the spears from 100% to 0%. which cost me 2 killpoints and made the game difficult to an unnecessary extent. But I do like the unit, they did well. 3. Maybe it would have been better even to let the DA in the serpents, they didn't contribute too much to the fight against the monstrous creatures. But it could as well have been their fire, which could have provoked a failed ground test, so its a difficult thing to judge.
4. The charge with 4 killpoints into your deployment zone was risky at best...
5. I didnt even have to kill the biovores with the spears. holding them back would have been a more conservative and imo more valid alternative.
Or in short: I misplayed that one a little bit. To add insult to injury, I got very lucky with dice, which I hate, because it feels stupid to have successes because of dice rolls and not because of good play. So much for self-pity.
Concerning your tyranid list from my perspective: It works well, is not unbeatable but you can win games with it as demonstrated here.
2014/01/28 21:50:05
Subject: Re:Vassal Reports 1850 Tyranids vs 1850 Screamer star & 1850 Eldar Bike army (Both Completed)
Nice batrep. One thing I would add, is the second squad of 3 biovores.
It was a nice and tough game, there are a few things in hindsight, that were some serious blunders in judgement on my part:
1. Dire Avengers should have been kept more safely from biovore fire (in terrain maybe... ), and from Hive Crone flamers, that was sloppy spacing and placement and I did not use the battle focus in any reasonable fashion. They should have survived both.
2. The shinig spears exarch wasn't placed well even before the assault, so he got executed later, which turned the chances of survival of the spears from 100% to 0%. which cost me 2 killpoints and made the game difficult to an unnecessary extent. But I do like the unit, they did well. 3. Maybe it would have been better even to let the DA in the serpents, they didn't contribute too much to the fight against the monstrous creatures. But it could as well have been their fire, which could have provoked a failed ground test, so its a difficult thing to judge.
4. The charge with 4 killpoints into your deployment zone was risky at best...
5. I didnt even have to kill the biovores with the spears. holding them back would have been a more conservative and imo more valid alternative.
Or in short: I misplayed that one a little bit. To add insult to injury, I got very lucky with dice, which I hate, because it feels stupid to have successes because of dice rolls and not because of good play. So much for self-pity.
Concerning your tyranid list from my perspective: It works well, is not unbeatable but you can win games with it as demonstrated here.
Thanks I appreciate you posting your thoughts.. Sorry for having to bug out so quickly after the game. Losing your serpents on turn 2 was pretty rough and my overall goal when advancing up the way i did. They just have too much firepower for me to weather for the duration of a game. When turbo boosting to get line breaker I would of left the weakened 2 man squad back. You only needed one unit for line breaker and if the game continued they were not going to be the difficult to kill.
Yea before charging the biovores you could of tried to play keep away with the lead. However, I still had 6 barrage weapons to hit you with so it was only a matter of time until I tied it back up or took the lead. Killing the shining spears exarch was probably the moment that swung the game in my favor. I was pretty confident I could widdle down that squad and finish them off.
As for the dire avengers and terrain. Had you plaed them in the one piece of terrain you had they would of been all bottled up and a juicier target hitting more per hit. You could of backed them up and shot at their maximum range and then battle focused backwards. Losing the bikes on turn 1 from fleeing was huge as well as that netted me first blood and a kill point.
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
Yeah the fleeing bike squad was critical as well,because it would have been the squad, which finished the second hive tyrant on my turn 2. But that wasn't my fault, so I didn't mention it there.
When the serpents had survived turn two it would have been a miracle, so that was obvious, they would die quickly.
The charge with the jetbikes had the goal to go into the spears combat in order to distract from them and to create a stalemate combat until the end of the game resulting in linebreaker and no killpoints. And that was too optimistically calculated.
Had you plaed them in the one piece of terrain you had they would of been all bottled up and a juicier target hitting more per hit.
In fact they were bottled up and easy to hit, because I didn't bother spacing them in any fashion. So the terrain would just have added a cover save against barrage weaponry. That together with spacing would have resulted in more surviving guys.
2014/01/29 15:19:10
Subject: Live Vassal Report 1850 Tyranids vs 1850 Daemons/CSM (ScreamStar) completed
BlaxicanX wrote:Missing his point. Yes, bad dice hurts everyone, but bad dice doesn't hurt everyone equally. There are armies that have a lot of leeway in which a poor tactical decision or poor dice in a crucial moment might not lose you the game, or that one really vital unit. There are other armies, Dark Eldar are a good example, where such things can outright destroy any reasonable chance of winning you'd have.
Tyranids is one of those latter armies.
Daemons are one of those armies too if grim fails and/or you roll negative 1 invulnerable then you can lose in one turn. Fate helps mitigate that though making them unstoppable if all their toys go off.
I recently drew a game at a tournament because the Nurgle DP with Iron Arm (+3 that turn) lost combat by one (thanks Mindshackle Scarabs) and I rolled a 12 for Daemonic Instability. He was tying up almost half of my opponent's army in CC and I would have won if that one roll hadn't gone the way it did. Too bad I had already used Fateweaver's reroll.
Check out my list building app for 40K and Fantasy:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/576793.page
2014/01/30 05:02:33
Subject: Live Vassal Report 1850 Tyranids vs 1850 Daemons/CSM (ScreamStar) completed
BlaxicanX wrote:Missing his point. Yes, bad dice hurts everyone, but bad dice doesn't hurt everyone equally. There are armies that have a lot of leeway in which a poor tactical decision or poor dice in a crucial moment might not lose you the game, or that one really vital unit. There are other armies, Dark Eldar are a good example, where such things can outright destroy any reasonable chance of winning you'd have.
Tyranids is one of those latter armies.
Daemons are one of those armies too if grim fails and/or you roll negative 1 invulnerable then you can lose in one turn. Fate helps mitigate that though making them unstoppable if all their toys go off.
I recently drew a game at a tournament because the Nurgle DP with Iron Arm (+3 that turn) lost combat by one (thanks Mindshackle Scarabs) and I rolled a 12 for Daemonic Instability. He was tying up almost half of my opponent's army in CC and I would have won if that one roll hadn't gone the way it did. Too bad I had already used Fateweaver's reroll.
I played against a horde Slaanesh heavy daemon list last night but he didnt roll well and we called it after two turns as his army had only 3 units left including his warlord. The crones were unstoppable... vectoring units doubling them out while flaming the troops. I had tried a mawloc in this game but it never made it to the board before we called it. Nids are still amazing against horde armies.
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
His Army:
Kairos Fateweaver
Herald of Tzeentch - Mastery Level 3, Disc of Tzeentch,
Exalted Reward, Exalted Locus of Conjuration
Herald of Tzeentch - Mastery Level 3, Disc of Tzeentch,
Exalted Reward
Herald of Tzeentch - Mastery Level 3, Disc of Tzeentch
Herald of Tzeentch - Mastery Level 3, Disc of Tzeentch
10 Plaguebearers
10 Horrors
9 Screamers
CSM Allies
Daemon Prince of Tzeentch - Power Armour, Wings, Black Mace,
Mastery Level 3, Spell Familiar
10 Cultists - Flamer
Heldrake - Hades Autocannon
Mission: Big Guns never tire 5 objectives
Deployment: Dawn of war
Night fight not active
Deployment: Dawn of War
Mission: Crusader with 3 objectives.
Psychic Powers:
Green Warlord Flyrant: Catalyst; Dominion (legendary fighter)
Teal Flyrant: Warp Blast; Dominion
Teal Tervigon: Dominion
Green Tervigon: Dominion
Deployment: Pre-Game thoughts: He didnt get forewarning this time so the screamer unit will be tough but not invincible. I am going second so I might to try and play the game of keep away. The plan is to keep my flyers off the board as much as possible and hopefully come in for some late game contest. First blood in this one is going to be huge.
Turn 1:
Spoiler:
Daemons: He actually fails the grimiore which gives me an unexpected break as I get one extra turn of him not charging into me. Though had he charged me with everything turn 1 I would of probably sent all 5 MC's forward to vector and dakka them. Fateweaver and the daemon prince both leave the board. He rolls the warp storm table and gets an 11 (painful memories come up of last game I had against this same player where he rolled 11 three times in that game and killed my warlord and a tervigon in that game, the warlord dying on turn 1), Luckily it hits a tervigon and I pass the leadership test, catastrophe avoided. The screamers move over and turbo boost to the corner. He has put him out of range of one of the biovore units but if I get an okay move with the other I can make it. Also he places a herald out front of the formation with a screamer and then another herald. Meaning if I can kill the screamer he will be LOS the wounds to another herald.
Nids: I have all my FMC move off the of the board except the green flyrant which charges up and fires into his screamers. The biovores fire and actually kill the screamer in between the 2 heralds. I fire the flyrant into them and he only get 6 wounds but it is enough to kill off one of his heralds as he runs out of places to look out sir to. I have achieved a crucial first blood for the second straight game.
Daemon Turn 2:
Spoiler:
He cast scrior's gaze to manipulate his reserves. The heldrake and the pink horrors both come on. The heldrake vectors the flyrant and does 3 wounds. Fateweaver shoots at the flyrant but he survives. Finally the heldrake shoots the flyrant finishing him off. The pink horrors try to run for cover but they don't make it that far. The screamers got the grimiore this turn and begin to turbo towards me. Claiming firstblood cost me a flyrant.
Nids Turn 2:
Spoiler:
The Flyrant and all 3 hive crones have seen enough of the heldrake already and they head straight for him. The teal gaunts move on 6" on the left flank trying to remain hidden. The 3 hive crones each fire 2 tentaclids and that is enough to glance the heldrake to death. The tervigon spawns gaunts and gets 14 but he is one and done. The biovores drop barrage after barrage on the pink horrors but he makes some good saves.
Mid-Game analysis:
Spoiler:
Alright, so I have lost a flyrant so far but I have claimed first blood and I have killed the heldrake. In addition, I have weakened one of his 3 troops down to 3 models. My goal at this point is to just survive and kill off his troops if any opportunity to do so arises. I dont need objectives to win this game. I just need to keep him from claiming them.
Daemon Turn 3:
Spoiler:
Even with scriors gaze my opponent cant keep the cultist off the board. Fateweaver once again leave the board. The daemon prince moves to the center of his side of the board. He rolls the warp storm table and again rolls an 11 on the warp storm table , again a tervigon is targeted but I pass the test with a leadership roll of 10(Cutting it close, that is the 5th time in two games he has rolled an 11 on the warp storm table). The screamers move up and with misfortune and prescience. They target the green gaunts the result is a total of 24 dead gaunts after warpflame. Essentially removing their combat effectiveness.
Nid Turn 3:
Spoiler:
The warlord flyrant puts catalyst on one of the hive crones and himself. Two of the hive crones leave the board. The third vectors the horrors killing 2 of them. This forces the flyrant to finish off the last horror before it gets around the impassable terrain. The hive crone then flames the cultist and they fail their leadership but he uses fate weavers re-roll to keep them on the board. On of my tervigons continues to escort the 14 spawned gaunts up the right flank towards that objective. The other tervigon finally spawns and gets 17 gaunts but is also finished spawning(2nd straight game against daemons where I was 1 and done with the tervs). The gaunts rap around the back tervigon. The biovores target the screamers and actually kill two.
Daemon Turn 4:
Spoiler:
The daemons begin to rally. The plague bearers come in on the top right objective. Fateweaver comes on and kills off all 14 gaunts that were pushing the right flank. One of his heralds leaves his screamer unit and kills the 6 gaunts left in the green squad. The remaining heralds with the screamers finish off a unit of biovores. The herald in the biovores drops the portalglyph and it scatters to the left side. It fails to spawn troops this turn. The daemon prince shoots the other biovore squad but only manages to kill 1. The one save and grace here is his cultist don't hit my crone forcing a grounding test and that the portalglyph fails to spawn troops.. It is a brutal turn for the nids.
Nid turn 4:
Spoiler:
The two hive crones come in on seperate sides. One targets the portalglyph but fails to glance it with the tentaclids. The other targets fateweaver but fails to wound or ground him. The hive crone up top vectored the cultist and forces a leadership. They fail and he saves his re-roll so they run off the board. The flyrant elects to go after his warlord instead of the prince and he makes good saves only suffering one wound. He passes all of his grounding test utilizing a re-roll. The tervigon was set to charge and kill fateweaver if the opportunity became available but alas he stayed in the air. Teal gaunts do move up and kill off his herald in the open with dakka. The remaining biovores fail to hit his plague bearers
Daemon Turn 5:
Spoiler:
We roll and it is night fight for the game now. He tries to spawn a troop squad again and fails... he uses his re-roll but it still fails. He puts the grimiore on the screamers again. Fateweaver moves over and slaughters the hive crone on the right flank. His screamers move over to my warlord and shooting see's me make all my saves and the grounding test I am required to take. His daemon prince cast dominate on the purple gaunts and then charges the teal gaunts. The plague bearers actually roll double 's to move to his objective but with my spore mines there he charges them losing 2 models but reaching the objective.
Nids Turn 5:
Spoiler:
The far left crone is out of synapse range. So i have to take a possibly costly IB test. Luckily he passes and he moves over and destroys the portalglyph. The flyrant fly's over to contest his objective and dakka's the plagues killing off all of them within range. The hive crone vectors the screamers and kills 1. The teal tervigon moves up to try and charge the last remaining plague bearer but he fails his charge. The purple gaunts actually pass a leadership test to move and manage to run 2" as well. The green tervigon moves up as well both preparing to run to the middle objective just in case. He continues to slaughter the teal gaunts with only 4 left alive at this point.
We roll to see if the game continues. If it ends now I would win the game 2-0 thanks to first blood and linebreaker.... so we roll.
Daemon Turn 6:
Spoiler:
The game goes on. Fateweaver lands and targets my crone. The daemon prince tries to dominate the purple gaunts again but the shadow in the warp helps stop him. Both of his heralds split from the screamers though the screamers have the grimiore on them before they do so. Both heralds target my flyrant which they managed to misfortune but I pass the two grounding test that are required of me. The plaguebearer moves to the middle of the screamers to hide. The daemon prince finishes the teal gaunts and consolidates to try and block the purple gaunts. 2 purple gaunts fail toughness test and die.
Nids Turn 6:
Spoiler:
The flyrant moves down to target fateweaver... both tervigons move to try and kill off fate weaver just in case the game goes on i dont want him getting re-rolls. The purple gaunts move up 6" in the middle of the board. The hive crone on the left flank moves towards the center as well. Neither of them want anything to do with the prince. The hive crone in the top right vectors the last plague bearer and kills him off. He flames the screamers and kills one. Shooting at fateweaver only see's me do 1 more wound. Both tervigons fail their charge. Finally the purple gaunts go to run and get a 6 which easilly puts them on the middle objective.
We now roll to see if the game goes on and....
Daemons Turn 7:
Spoiler:
The game ends as we roll a 2!
Nid turn 7:
Spoiler:
Didnt you read the above one the game already ended...
Post game thoughts and analysis:
Spoiler:
Primary objective nids 1 to daemons 0
Nids get first blood
Nids get line breaker
Neither player gets warlord
Final result nids win 5 to 0
Thoughts and Analysis: As I have stated probably a hundred times by now the crones are the best unit in this book. IMHO they are on par with the heldrake. They have a S6 ap4 Template are cheaper then a heldrake and have a S8 vector. Add the fact that I am also running 2 flyrants next to these bad boys and it is a force to be reckoned with. The army preformed well in this game. The flyrants didnt roll to hot with wounds but the sheer volume of fire helped make up for that. I stand by my original statement about daemons. Even with screamer star they are not consistent enough to win at the GT level. As you all see the difference not getting one power has on the result. Without forewarning this list isnt really that scary as I can handle a 3++ re-rollable... i mean it sucks but its not damn near invincible. If I had time for GT's this year I could actually see me running this list at the GT level and doing well with it. IMO its the list to beat when it comes to nids.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/02/07 05:42:53
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
About Deamons, I have seen them practically self destruct from a bad roll. And I also have seen them massacre the enemy through sheer good rolls like happened in the first battle.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/05 04:15:52
Tyran wrote:About Deamons, I have seen them practically self destruct from a bad roll. And I also have seen them massacre the enemy through sheer good rolls like happened in the first battle.
This one they were still pretty strong and really only had one bad roll all game. The main thing was that they didnt have forewarning.
jy2 wrote:I still think bugs have the advantage in this matchup, with or without Forewarning.
Yea forewarning just makes it that much harder though.
Report finished!
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
Pre-game thoughts: Well I asked for the hammer on this one. We will see if I can pull this out but his army has speed and resiliency on its side. Might be a serious test of endurance to whether the amount of firepower that is going to be coming my way. Hopefully I roll well on psychic powers. Really need catalyst in this one.
Deployment:
I reserve the crones because even though its night fight... they could easilly get killed off in one turn of good shooting. Had I gone first I would of started them on the board. The biovores are also in reserve along with the venomthrope. The venomthrope I figured would be an easy KP against an army that ignored cover and I didnt want to give up first blood. He only reserves his warp spyders.
Eldar Turn 1:
Spoiler:
He targets my black tervigon but mostly the gaunts are the only thing in range thanks to my deployment and him keeping a safe distance from my lines. Nothing of note really happens.
Nid Turn 1:
Spoiler:
I cast catalyst on the hive tyrants and onslaught on the teal flyrant. I cant kill off his wave serpents as the best I can do is glance. So i decide to try for the war walkers and possible first blood. Unfortunately only one is within range and out of only 3 pens I get shaken, shaken, stun! The tervigons stay back as I have come to the conclusion they are too slow to effect the game. Both the gaunts and the tervigon are useless in this mission and match-up.
Eldar Turn 2:
Spoiler:
He gets his spyders in from reserve and they deep strike next to the flyrants. He disembarks two squads to shoot at my flyrants. I was hoping I could get lucky and weather the storm a bit. But unfortunately I fail the first grounding test I am required to take and then he proceeds to murder the teal flyrant claiming first blood and a kill point. He actually shoots my 2nd flyrant out of the sky but has no more shooting to finish him off. 0 for 2 on grounding test so far.
Nid Turn 2:
Spoiler:
All but 1 crone comes in from reserves. The biovores destroy his squads in the open netting me 2 kill points there. The crones flame his maugan ra squad and actually manage to kill his farseer stopping the prescience and guide for the game. The remaining flyrant moves up and charges his warwalker.. the aid was to lock not to kill as I wanted to be available my next turn to move around and attack. I only kill 1 and glance the other.. Barely enough to keep it locked as his last walker has 1 HP.
Mid-Game Analysis:
Spoiler:
That turn was huge with me swining three kill points and poised to really bring down the hammer in the next turn. I was actually worried starting off the game slow but might be able to pull this one off. I really need to stop his wave serpents. Also I have come to the conclusion the dark reapers are no joke. I will need to avoid them if at all possible. I contemplated charging them but maugan ra is no joke in combat at S6 ap3.
Eldar Turn 3:
Spoiler:
He proceeds to clear the area around the flyrant wanting nothing to do with him. He has wave serpents shoot at my other unwounded tervigon and it does a few wounds. He splits fire with the dark reapers and maugan ra and shoots at the crones. The first crone fails its grounding test. It is systematically annihilated. The other crone takes a hit to but makes his grounding check . He takes two wounds but survives to fight another day. Now for the game breaker... I pen the war walker twice with my flyrant and he makes both 5++ saves. This will be hard to recover from as now I will most likely come free for his next shooting phase.
Nid Turn 3:
Spoiler:
My crone fails to come in from reserves. Leaving me no choice but to take my lone MC out of combat off the board. I vector a wave serpent as I go but roll poorly and fail to even glance. The biovores shoot at the spyders and actually manage to pin them while also killing 2. The other biovores fire at his dark reapers killing a few off. Finally we go to combat and I roll normal S6 attacks against the warwalker and manage to pin it once and this time he fails his save. I get 1 KP but its not looking good as I am alone on the menu for targets.
Eldar Turn 4:
Spoiler:
He moves 3 serpents to engage my warlord flyrant and has one head for the venomthrope and the other for the wounded tervigon. He rolls well against the venomthrope and gets 5 shield wounds which kills it off. The next wave serpent shoots my tervigon and does 9 wounds as his shield rolled a . The result is one dead tervigon. His three wave serpents aiming at my warlord fire but only one is needed as it also rolls a on the shield and he gets 8 wounds in which i fail three. Lets not waste shots now . The remaining two serpents move flat out to cover vectors that are going to be coming in as I originally had a good angle to vector his forward serpents. After this turn nids be like is it over?
Nid turn 4:
Spoiler:
I am only down 3 kill points... believe it or not I have come back from less likely chances at victory. So lets see what I can do. I come in at an angle managing to vector 1 serpent. The other crone vectors his dark reapers and maugan ra takes a save while another guy dies. The vector on the serpent see's me get 2 pens. I roll weapon destroyed and stunned. The crone shoots its haywire at it to try and get the last HP but he misses. The Crone that vectored the dark reapers flames the rear armor of the two wave serpents. Actually manages to pin one and glance the other but the pin is only a shaken. Well I really could of used something happening there. My tervigon moves up to charge his spyders but I had killed one with shooting and they fled in the shooting phase.
Eldar Turn 5:
Spoiler:
The spyders roll double 's to rally but there where 40% left in squad so didnt need it. He shoots and downs both crones and manages to kill one with shooting. Maugan Ra makes the other one a trophy for his wall in short order.
Nid Turn 5:
Spoiler:
I shoot at his dark reapers and actually manage to kill the exarch netting a moral VP against the dangerous squad as Maugan Ra stands alone. The other biovores squad shoots his spyders along with the tervigon but I only manage to kill one and this time they pass their leadership. At this point we call it as the game was over on turn 4 really and we were just going through the motions to see if I could pull out of it.
Eldar Turn 6:
Spoiler:
Game ended!
Nid Turn 6:
Spoiler:
Game Ended!
Post Game Results and Analysis:
Spoiler:
Eldar 7KP + first blood + warlord = 9 VP Nids 5KP = 5 VP Results Eldar handle the nids pretty solidly.
Analysis and Thoughts: I love the nids and I think my current build is competitive but I would be lying to myself if I said they were as forgiving as Tau and/or Eldar. It comes down to a few rolls and if they dont go your way it can really turn into a route. This game did show me one thing though. My list lacks some serious ranged anti-armor but then again nids as a whole lack range and anti-armor. My only thought is I might try to find a way to fit hive guard into the mix. The crones are usually my anti-armor via vectoring but in this one they just couldn't get it done. Well definately need to rely on multi-tiered missions as I felt the tervigon and the gaunts were just dead wait.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/02/08 06:04:55
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
Nettik189 wrote: in your second game you where playing purge the alien right? Slay the warlord is worth 2 VP so technically it would have been a tie
Check turn 2. The only thing he killed that turn was the warlord Flyrant. I gave him 2 VP at that time for it. He only achieved 7 actual kill points during the game.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dozer Blades wrote: It'll be very interesting to see how you handle Reaperstar with Maugan Ra. I think you'll win. Congrats versus the ScreamerStar - very impressive !
Thanks I appreciate it. This eldar match-up is not only one of the worst builds to face with nids but it is also imo the worst mission for nids. I will try and get the report done in the next hour.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/08 05:13:40
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
Dozer Blades wrote: Wow Dark Reapers are so undercosted! I wish Devastators were that good.
Yea I didnt highlight them to much in my report but S8 ap3 shots or S5 ap3 shotsx2. Had them shoot a crone dead as they wounded 3 times with the S5 while I was flying... lol. That is what happened in turn 4 when they split fire.
Report Up!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/08 06:06:42
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
230pts
! Will see if I can cripple the star early.
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
The tervigons are the MVP's in this one. One sniped the exarch out of the shining spears as he was left exposed. The other killed the last guy and the autarch as well as spawning the squad that killed one of his bike units. All in all it was a real close tough game but the list struggled throughout. Waiting to roll average with this army. 
The tervigon spawns gaunts and gets 14 but he is one and done. The biovores drop barrage after barrage on the pink horrors but he makes some good saves.
's to move to his objective but with my spore mines there he charges them losing 2 models but reaching the objective. 
It is systematically annihilated. The other crone takes a hit to but makes his grounding check 
. He takes two wounds but survives to fight another day. Now for the game breaker... I pen the war walker twice with my flyrant and he makes both 5++ saves. 
is it over? 
6k+, 
2k, 
2k, 
1k
