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Hey mates. Now while I am still debating on what I exactly want to run with my Tyranids, I have been able to try a number of ideas and different force comps to see what is competitive in this edition. Recently in a 2,000 point game, I decided what the heck and went with the following unit:

*9x Tyranid Warriors:
-w/1x Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons, 8x Deathspitters, Scything Talons

Granted, this is a unit that is over 300 points, but it is 27x wounds at T4, with a 4+ Armor Save, and in total, I have 24x S5 shots, including a large Blast Template that causes pinning. So far, this unit has been extremely effective when outflanking, as most opponents do not expect a unit like this to hit them on the flank with this much firepower, and so far it has been a game changer in many ways. With most people running Infantry-Heavy lists, these guys thrive in this edition and though they become a magnet after they appear, that gives time for my Hormaguants and my other units to make it across the board without much worry, and if my opponent doesn't kill the Warriors, they will get stuck in CC and start doing what Tyranids do best if needed.

So far, I have tested this out in 4x games, all of those leading to 3x Victories (against Tau Riptide Spam, Eldar, and Imperial Guard), while Drawing against Necrons ( Mainly do to us calling the game early right before my units got into CC ) and I am starting to like it a lot.Might be tempted in the future to try and run two Tyrants just so I can run 2x units of Outflanking Warriors like this to see how it does. Thoughts?

This worked against Riptide spam?

They didn't just EWO STR-8 Pie plate you?

I'd like to hear some more about your battles against Eldar and Tau.

That is a great unit for less than 300 points ... attaching a Prime would really buff them .

 Dozer Blades wrote:
That is a great unit for less than 300 points ... attaching a Prime would really buff them .

If you do this...combat prime...no need to throw guns on him...let him buff them and handle any enemy that believes it's combat worthy.

Make sure to take the Maw Claws, which he will pass onto the brood.

I am so used to using them in squads of 3 as a lawn chair unit to hold my rear that I would have never even thought of, or attempted, to use a full squad offensively.

My concern would be point costs, especially with a prime, it would be over 400pts in one unit. What is the model count of your force and at what point values? Did you have a lot of cheap 'gaunts to back'em up?

 Sasori wrote:
This worked against Riptide spam?

They didn't just EWO STR-8 Pie plate you?

I'd like to hear some more about your battles against Eldar and Tau.

Even if they did, it's only 3 dead warriors max. It's not as if you have to deploy in a bunched formation (like you do when Deep Striking) when you arrive from outflanking. A long line of Tyranid warriors spread 2" apart isn't the juiciest target for a riptide's pie plate.

 Sasori wrote:
This worked against Riptide spam?

They didn't just EWO STR-8 Pie plate you?

I'd like to hear some more about your battles against Eldar and Tau.

Reason was because when I outflanked them, I was able to use the terrain to my advantage and where I had a clear line of site against his Fire Warrior and Pathfinder units, his Riptides weren't in a great position to hit them which helped. I don't run a Prime with them, as with the additional points on Deathspitters, this unit is 325 points (worh it for the 3x S5, AP5 shots per Warrior), and although I lost 4x of them, they distracted my opponent long enough for my Hormaguants to get into CC, and he gave up at that point and whined about it as he says units that can get to you that quickly make the game no fun....... That's rich coming from a Tau player running one of the most Powerful lists in the game lol.

As for the rest of my army, I have mixed it up with various units, however I like to take Hormaguants as they are super fast crossing the board, and combining this outflanking unit with a Mawloc or two just make gun-line lists cry. It's still a learning process, and I am still trying out different forces to along with this unit.

Its a fair point about mitigating T4 ID with spacing.

Would it be worth getting bone swords on at-least one model, for additional ID/AP3 ability.

I've found outflanking with 30 gants is 30 less gants you want screening at the front line. 10 gaunts, a troop spawning tervigon or Warriors seem to be a very good choice.

You may have hit on Tyranid gold here. My first thought was the EVO St 8 pieplate of death, but the more I read I see that you can easily mitigate it, and almost make that a wasted shot that isn't going into your lines next turn.
I would be tempted to say you should add a Prime to soak up S8 wounds, but that may be adding too many points (325 points for a unit like this is NOT expensive at all). Plus, it allows the list to still be competitive by not taking away one of your Flyrants.

This is VERY interesting.

pie plates still scater and give cover too, so as long as you are smart about how you out flank, you will wreck stuff...

even my orks have had some pivotal movments with kommandos throwing a real moneky wrench via outfolank, so a large unit of warriors that can actually do shooting damage and CC is really really good.

also the outflank hides them from damage, one free turn of shooting at full strengh is nothing to scoff at

Will this work with Raveners? Are beasts considered Infantry as well? If so, raveners would work much better due to their speed.

I would rather outflank a Prime with 30 Devilgaunts, more wounds to chew up, and 90 Str 4 shots!

But I agree I think outflanking is a great advantage for Nids now, combine that with the new data slates and you have a lot of models able to show up early and often!

 jy2 wrote:
Will this work with Raveners? Are beasts considered Infantry as well? If so, raveners would work much better due to their speed.

Do they have Outflank already? I thought the HT can only grant it to troops if not.

 jy2 wrote:
Will this work with Raveners? Are beasts considered Infantry as well? If so, raveners would work much better due to their speed.

Raveners would have to deepstrike, not outflank, they could reliably do something similar but might want spinefists and a few lictors to do it...if they have nothing to shoot, at least they could fleet run and spread out.

Comms relay and as many units deep striking, outflanking from reserves as possible. You want more units than the Tau can intercept... This what I like to call the Critical Overload Factor (COF).

Nice work. Get the kinks out of the bugs. I will definitely try this.

Have anybody done mathhammer on warriors? Having troops with S5 guns with 3 shots each sounds very good. (ALthough Tau probably also have it?)

Are they good at shooting for the point?

Stormbreed wrote:
I would rather outflank a Prime with 30 Devilgaunts, more wounds to chew up, and 90 Str 4 shots!

But I agree I think outflanking is a great advantage for Nids now, combine that with the new data slates and you have a lot of models able to show up early and often!

Oh yeah, I have been doing this and oh man is it nasty... permanant synapse, move through cover for the prime, I do 20 devilgaunts, 10 with borers to take LoS wounds. Has worked incredibly well. Friend of mine has also been messing with 30 horms and a prime, poisoned, and has mixed results, though it is funny to see every unit with EWO targeting this unit.

 Niiai wrote:
Have anybody done mathhammer on warriors? Having troops with S5 guns with 3 shots each sounds very good. (ALthough Tau probably also have it?)

Are they good at shooting for the point?

Should kill 5.5 Fire Warriors...more with a strangler. Devourers kill 4...I think I'll save my 25 points personally.

Devilgants actually do much more (like a lot more) damage per point, but lack resiliency and require synapse the next turn.

Stormbreed wrote:
I would rather outflank a Prime with 30 Devilgaunts, more wounds to chew up, and 90 Str 4 shots!

But I agree I think outflanking is a great advantage for Nids now, combine that with the new data slates and you have a lot of models able to show up early and often!

I have considered this idea as well, because you get more shots and you have a larger number of models to soak up wounds, which I think it's great Tyranid HQ's are IC's now. But the problem with this unit is that it will be hard to get 30x models in a good position to utilize the most damage, plus its a pain trying to fit on the table without getting targeted by multiple units.

 ductvader wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Have anybody done mathhammer on warriors? Having troops with S5 guns with 3 shots each sounds very good. (ALthough Tau probably also have it?)

Are they good at shooting for the point?

Should kill 5.5 Fire Warriors...more with a strangler. Devourers kill 4...I think I'll save my 25 points personally.

Devilgants actually do much more (like a lot more) damage per point, but lack resiliency and require synapse the next turn.

Put a prime out front and you have your synapse, and you have 33 wounds on 2+ LOS roll. You then can kit the Prime out with a Whip/Sword and he can break off and try and ID something or handle challenges.

Stormbreed wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Have anybody done mathhammer on warriors? Having troops with S5 guns with 3 shots each sounds very good. (ALthough Tau probably also have it?)

Are they good at shooting for the point?

Should kill 5.5 Fire Warriors...more with a strangler. Devourers kill 4...I think I'll save my 25 points personally.

Devilgants actually do much more (like a lot more) damage per point, but lack resiliency and require synapse the next turn.

Put a prime out front and you have your synapse, and you have 33 wounds on 2+ LOS roll. You then can kit the Prime out with a Whip/Sword and he can break off and try and ID something or handle challenges.

That's nearly exactly what I said earlier.

 Niiai wrote:
Have anybody done mathhammer on warriors? Having troops with S5 guns with 3 shots each sounds very good. (ALthough Tau probably also have it?)

Are they good at shooting for the point?

Bored at work....

These are averages assuming a 9 Warrior unit with a heavy weapon (which isn't included in the calculation):

Devourers, no Prime = 35pts/wound against T3, 46.7pts/wound against T4 (8 Devourers shooting)
Devourers, with Prime = 34pts/wound against T3, 45pts/wound against T4 (9 Devourers shooting)
Deathspitters, no Prime = 32pts/wound against T3, 40pts/wound against T4 (8 Deathspitters shooting)
Deathspitters, with Prime = 30pts/wound against T3, 37.5pts/wound against T4 (9 Deathspitters shooting)

The Prime doesn't make a huge difference to shooting thanks to his high cost, but he may help the unit in other ways (LoS gimmicks, challenges, etc).

 xttz wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Have anybody done mathhammer on warriors? Having troops with S5 guns with 3 shots each sounds very good. (ALthough Tau probably also have it?)

Are they good at shooting for the point?

Bored at work....

These are averages assuming a 9 Warrior unit with a heavy weapon (which isn't included in the calculation):

Devourers, no Prime = 35pts/wound against T3, 46.7pts/wound against T4 (8 Devourers shooting)
Devourers, with Prime = 34pts/wound against T3, 45pts/wound against T4 (9 Devourers shooting)
Deathspitters, no Prime = 32pts/wound against T3, 40pts/wound against T4 (8 Deathspitters shooting)
Deathspitters, with Prime = 30pts/wound against T3, 37.5pts/wound against T4 (9 Deathspitters shooting)

The Prime doesn't make a huge difference to shooting thanks to his high cost, but he may help the unit in other ways (LoS gimmicks, challenges, etc).

Do T3!

90% of my opponents are T3

He has T3 on there.

I'm actually impressed the Prime has a positive result considering how expensive he is.

 Bulldogging wrote:
He has T3 on there.

I'm actually impressed the Prime has a positive result considering how expensive he is.

Oh sorry, just skipped to the end...yeah...the points include the prime?

I really like this. I am working on getting a list that is warrior based with some MC to be at least slightly competitive. I am not sure if it would be work both a HC tyrant and a prime however the outflanking is great even against tau ewo

 ductvader wrote:

 Bulldogging wrote:
He has T3 on there.

I'm actually impressed the Prime has a positive result considering how expensive he is.

Oh sorry, just skipped to the end...yeah...the points include the prime?

His calculations show the weapons with and without the prime. The prime has a positive result(even if small).

EDIT: Oh i see the question now, I bet they don't.

Damn, and I was liking the prime again. I just can't find an excuse to run him instead of another tyrant.

I outflanked 9 warriors with devourers against a space wolves player. Completely blew away a whole unit of buffed thunder wolf cavalry, and was a huge thorn in his side the rest of the game. Totally worth it in my opinion!