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Ok So in internet land there are a few top builds people seem to continue to mention flying circus, screamer star. There is also a hybrid list of sorts i call Herlad star. I Wanna get everyone's opinion on which they find the best out of the three i've played fmc alot myself and find that against a good player there seems to be so huge weakness that can be exploited. So Let me hear your choice and Why you think It's the best or the Worst of the three. Now for the list!

( i'm Not gonna go into specifics with wargear im sure everyone know the typical layout To you FMC and your screamer star)
List one My Flying Circus Hybrid or regular depending on who you ask
HQ
-Fateweaver
-Slanesh Prince

Troops
3 units of 10 pink horrors

Fast attack
15 Khorne Hounds

Heavy
2 Daemon Princes of Tzeentch
- 1 portal 1 glyph

List Two Screamer Star

HQ
Fateweaver
Herald of Tzeentch
Herald of Tzeentch
Herald of Tzeentch
All the goodies that make them nasty
Herald of Khorne Juggernaut

Troops
3 10 man units of whatever you link pink horrors ussaly.

FAst attack
7 screamers

10 Khorne hounds

Heavy support
Soul grinder Nurgle layout
Soul Grinder Slanesh Layout

Third List is Something i saw ran which i think could be very good like a mini Screamer Star plus fast assault units
HQ
Fateweaver
Tzeentch herald disc mastery lvl 3
-grimore
Tzeentch herald disc mastery lvl 3
-strength 6 shooting
Slanesh herald mastery lvl 2
Khrone herald Juggernaut
-axe -fury


Troops
20 deamonettes
10 pink horrors
10 pink horrors

Fast attack
18 seekers
15 Khorne Hounds
8 screamers

So Lets Begin the Debate, Feel free to share what you have found too work very well or what you found not to work Thanks Everyone!

Two problems. One may be my misinterpreting. need other options in case some does use either. second is the problem with net listing in general. if you don't understand and cant play some one else build.

My friend faced a necron demon Flying circus and beat them with an out of date tau codex in my friends first tourny.

His oppent had no idea how to play this bug eater level list. my friend knew his Tau

There is always Going to be different skill levels of players. Lets Pretend for the sake of choosing the best that both players are equally skilled. Which of the three do i feel to have the least weakness and the strongest strengths. In a tournament setting which usually runs a objective based and kill point skill games.

Monster Mash lists are almost always fun both to play, and to play against. They do have some hard counters, but they can still dish out some hurt.

Right now, a Screamerstar is probably the 'most competitive,' by which I mean not competitive at all since all you need to do is faceroll your way to victory. I personally hate playing the Screamerstar, as it's boring, nearly broken, and it won't earn you any friends in the community.

If you can't tell already, I'm really more of a beer league kinda' guy. I play to have fun, but not strictly to win, and I tend to look down on--as do many others, mind--WAAC players.

Never played a Screamerstar or Heraldstar. But I've been REALLY impressed by the Flying Circus, from the slowpitch versions that I've seen.

Hound rush should be put up as a strong competitive list

All three of those list incorporate hounds but yea ill throw it up as a choice.

I voted flying circus, as it is far more versatile than the screamer star. It is also less dependent on passing that grimoire roll.

Bear in mind though that Nids will become more present now, and their SitW can and will cause daemon lists like the flying circus a lot of problems.

Out of the lists above I would say your screamer star is the best.

I personally prefer the FMC circus but I am not a fan of your list. My FMC circus is CD primary Fatey, LOC (grimoire), 2x 10 Pink Horrors and CSM allied with Be'Lakor, 10 cultists, and helldrake. Depending on points I might get to squeeze in a Tz DP, a bastion (super useful), another scoring unit or two, or even some oblits. If I run a mono CD list I will take GUO and nurgle DP in the heavy, but honestly that isn't my competitive version of the army.

The herald star is pretty good too actually. Reminds me of Jy2's herald hammer.

I find that that all these lists lack strength other then the FMCs, the herald star can be tar pitted easily or just feed it useless/chaf the whole game or run around it (what I normaly do is feed it units of Ig or if im playing Eldar I just ignore it because it can't touch me).

The khornedogs (yum) are the best list out there IMO you can get some first turn charges if the deployment is right and if not your going to get charges on turn 2 unless you roll nothing but 1s.

So that leaves FMCs but even then, play someone like tau with skyfire or massed HYMPsides and your gamed.

The problem with Belakor now in fmc is that it is not allowed in adepticon so i find there no point in playing it. A typical Hound rush list consist of what usually?

 Mrstealthrttt wrote:
The problem with Belakor now in fmc is that it is not allowed in adepticon so i find there no point in playing it. A typical Hound rush list consist of what usually?

Literally loads and loads of Khorne hounds. Sorry if that is obvious.

Normally 3 squads of hounds (possibly maxed out), supported with heralds. Fatey is still the HQ or choice.

Throw in some troops and that's about it.

Players may pick a squad of seekers of slaanesh to deal with MCs and 2+ units to replace one of the hound squads, or pick daemonettes as troops.

Clearly circus but ill Add this recently successful RTT list! Could be the future !

Nick Nanavati, TOGIT RTT
Fateweaver
Epidemius
Herald of Nurgle, Exalted Reward, Exalted Locus
Herald of Nurgle, Exalted Reward, ML 1
2 x 10 Horrors of Tzeentch
1 x 10 Plaguebearers of Nurgle
9 Plague Drones, Champion w/ Greater Reward, Icon, Plague Banner
3 Soulgrinders, Mark of Nurgle, Phlegm

jakl277 wrote:
Clearly circus but ill Add this recently successful RTT list! Could be the future !

Nick Nanavati, TOGIT RTT
Fateweaver
Epidemius
Herald of Nurgle, Exalted Reward, Exalted Locus
Herald of Nurgle, Exalted Reward, ML 1
2 x 10 Horrors of Tzeentch
1 x 10 Plaguebearers of Nurgle
9 Plague Drones, Champion w/ Greater Reward, Icon, Plague Banner
3 Soulgrinders, Mark of Nurgle, Phlegm

I've seen this list before, but do you know if there are any battle reports of it in action? I'm still struggling to see how it could win a tournament.

Either way though it's nice to see that new builds with daemons are still appearing.

No but there was a threat about it a while ago. I assume it works similar to screamerstar but you use the grinders to charge up epidimius.

Grinders certainly would power him up. But a screamer star relies on movement.

Only the flies here can move at a good speed, with everything else limited by SNP. (nurgle heralds suck for not having a mobile steed to go with the flies).

It's cool that it won, and once powered up is very durable, but I'm just struggling to see where the damage is coming from.

yea that list seems diffcult to use also i also don't see where the killyness is coming from

As far as I understand it the grinders would charge epi up with the heralds all attached to the drones. The drones have large bases and 12" movement so they move toward the enemy in a string from the slow heralds. Once they get the charge off the heralds will be pulled along by the consolidation moves up the board. It could be a pretty good list but I have trouble seeing it beating a competent serpent list. However the meta it was played in has competent players and there must have been more than luck. So it seems there was some tactics which mitigated split deployment and turn 5 necron objective grabs.

I Really have become intrigued with the plaguedrone star list, seems like it would take alot of finesse to play.

jakl277 wrote:
Clearly circus but ill Add this recently successful RTT list! Could be the future !

Nick Nanavati, TOGIT RTT
Fateweaver
Epidemius
Herald of Nurgle, Exalted Reward, Exalted Locus
Herald of Nurgle, Exalted Reward, ML 1
2 x 10 Horrors of Tzeentch
1 x 10 Plaguebearers of Nurgle
9 Plague Drones, Champion w/ Greater Reward, Icon, Plague Banner
3 Soulgrinders, Mark of Nurgle, Phlegm

The list is ok. It's actually not bad and has a lot of hidden synergies/great combos, but it isn't exactly top-tier either.

The reason why this list did so well is because:

1) It is run by a top-tier GT-winning general. The guy who ran this list could probably take any normal list and still beat most players with it.

2) It's got the element of surprise. Most people who see/face it will probably not know what it can do.


In other words, I can see most people under-estimating both the list and the general behind the list.

I wouldnt say any of your lists are top tier tourny winning, the screamer star can be alpha striked off the board by a gunline Tau (or ovesa star), once you start dropping screamers they because much less viable. Plus only 3 heralds from experince I would say 2 out of 6 games at least you wont get forewarning, at gt heat 3 a guy ran 3 and got forewarning once in 6 games.

Princes, they are ok but again they have too many hard counters to win tournies without a lot of luck on match ups.

Fast attack spam, something I have run in pratice and non competitive games, against most armies they get shot off the board early on really I dont rate them as top tier either.

How many pts are you running?

I;m deciding what im going to take to adepticon so 1850

 ansacs wrote:
As far as I understand it the grinders would charge epi up with the heralds all attached to the drones. The drones have large bases and 12" movement so they move toward the enemy in a string from the slow heralds. Once they get the charge off the heralds will be pulled along by the consolidation moves up the board. It could be a pretty good list but I have trouble seeing it beating a competent serpent list. However the meta it was played in has competent players and there must have been more than luck. So it seems there was some tactics which mitigated split deployment and turn 5 necron objective grabs.

It does have some trouble against serpents (not killing them necessarily) because it powers up based on unsaved wounds...so against armies with lots of mech, it takes longer to power up.

Ok IMO the best two lists I have run for screamers have been these two

Fatey
Tzeentch herald, disc, ml3 exalted
Tzeentch herald, disc, ml3 exalted
Tzeentch herald, disc, ml3, lesser reward x1 locus of conjuration
Tzeentch herald, disc, ml3 2 lesser rewards

2 x 10 horrors
3 x 11 horrors

8 screamers
8 screamers

Bastion

if going second spread out the heralds to the screamers and if against Tau/Ovesa put the non forewarning non grimoire heralds into a horror unit or two.

It may take till turn 2 to get the heralds into the one unit again but try and place the main screamer unit centrally then the other heralds/units to the flanks, you effectively have a 26inch range to get them to join each other. You will prob then have to boost to get in a better position for turn 2 but the screamers should have grimoire and forewarning on them by then.


The other was using hounds, why? pure distraction!, they either have to shoot the scouting hounds or shoot the council and then be assaulted by them.

Fatey
Tzeentch herald, disc, ml3 exalted
Tzeentch herald, disc, ml3 exalted
Tzeentch herald, disc, ml3, lesser reward x1 locus of conjuration
Tzeentch herald, disc, ml3 2 lesser rewards

2 or 3 units of horrors

2 x 8-10 hounds
9 screamers

Thats very rough as I havent run that in ages to be honest, It was ok but personnaly I much prefer the first list, all those horrors can really put the hurt out with their shooting on a lot of units.


Now the lesser reward, best kept secret I think....

Facing jaws of the world wolf?, you want a 4 on the table you are now denying the witch on a 3plus, against most units with misfortune, also on a 3 up or 4 up against farseers and the like (lvl 3 to 4). Against 4+ armour saves, you want the default staff of change, precision strikes from their 3 (4 on the charge) attacks are at str5 ap4 and characters explode.... Against mass tanks you want 3, str5 2d6 to pen vehicles flamer template that you can overwatch with.

As someone said above, praticie again and again and again screamers are not a auto win and are no the easiest army to win with, its effectively 1k plus pts in one unit that can shoot one unit a turn and if played against correctly can only kill one unit a turn.

Well the screamer star would seem to have a very hard counter agianst necrons with all there armour 13 vehicles. Which happens to be the person i play agianst most. I've been running fmc alot with a decent ammount of success but agian seem to struggle agianst crons with all the tesla. So the best way to play screamer star is aggresive or passive in a sense? cause it seems it would suck hard if your 1000pt deathstar gets tarpitted in close combat. Also 5 untis of Pink horrors seems like alot, but your have tons of anti-infantry shooting.

 Mrstealthrttt wrote:
Well the screamer star would seem to have a very hard counter agianst necrons with all there armour 13 vehicles. Which happens to be the person i play agianst most. I've been running fmc alot with a decent ammount of success but agian seem to struggle agianst crons with all the tesla. So the best way to play screamer star is aggresive or passive in a sense? cause it seems it would suck hard if your 1000pt deathstar gets tarpitted in close combat. Also 5 untis of Pink horrors seems like alot, but your have tons of anti-infantry shooting.

Remember that the screamers have str 5 and armourbane. They can deal with most vehicles, especially when buffed with prescience. As for tarpitting, sure it can happen. Remember though that the screamers put out a decent number of attacks, and often a few of the heralds will have etherblades to deal with good saves. You will need a special unit to tarpit these guys.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:

 Mrstealthrttt wrote:
Well the screamer star would seem to have a very hard counter agianst necrons with all there armour 13 vehicles. Which happens to be the person i play agianst most. I've been running fmc alot with a decent ammount of success but agian seem to struggle agianst crons with all the tesla. So the best way to play screamer star is aggresive or passive in a sense? cause it seems it would suck hard if your 1000pt deathstar gets tarpitted in close combat. Also 5 untis of Pink horrors seems like alot, but your have tons of anti-infantry shooting.

Remember that the screamers have str 5 and armourbane. They can deal with most vehicles, especially when buffed with prescience. As for tarpitting, sure it can happen. Remember though that the screamers put out a decent number of attacks, and often a few of the heralds will have etherblades to deal with good saves. You will need a special unit to tarpit these guys.

Which do you find better more pink horros screamers or 3 untis of pink horrors and 2 soulgrinders? for the screamer star.

I have found that just taking 3 soul grinders works great for a screamerstar list. The downside to that being you only have 2 squads of lesser daemons so scriers gaze may be necessary to hold them in reserves till t4

I've had many better experiences with the Hound-star than Screamer star, and I've beaten the Screamerstar handily with the Houndstar, not to mention Tau, Eldar, and Dark Eldar (the 1st two armies on a few occasions).

Screamer-star can be easily defeated by taking out the Grimoire, plus the Screamers suck vs Stormshields and AV13-14 (been there with little to no pens to show for it). But they're certainly a tough nut to crack!

Flying circus CAN be amazing, but so few eggs in small basket. Grounding tests can be failed far too easily, and plenty of things ignore cover saves these days too. You'll end up with like 4 FMCs maybe, a Grinder, and 2 to 3 Troops.

Best bet is 1 to 2 FMCs with powers to buff friendlies. A big Hound unit with a Jugger Herald or 2, and perhaps a Screamer unit also with a Disc Herald or 2. Definitely 3 Troops, and if you can fit it a Grinder or Skull Cannon.

Then you'll have a nice balance TAC list with task masters all over. Daemonettes and Bloodletters are my favorite, as both can run, and if stuck in combat can whoop ass (usually). Plaguers are okay but just never seem to do much except in huge numbers to glance vehicles to death or poison Wraithknights/Riptides (and still take Instability checks darn it). Horrors reroll 1s, almost never kill anything though when I use them.

Anyway, good luck!

Escalation killed competitive 40k...