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Why are vindicators not used as often As I thought they would be? They ignore difficult terrain (tell me if I'm wrong) and if used correctly can ruin armies troops on objectives . The only time I saw one used was a kid who though "Ooo big gun, gimme!"

It is short range,has weak armor ,a template that maybe hits 2-3 models maximum , does nothing to flyers .

I run two in my list. A single model will not due much due to the reasons Makumba mentioned. But two help with target saturation and you can often get more out of them. They also help with board control. Because there are just some thing you don't want to risk that template landing on.

Weak side armour and short ranged weapon is a bad combination; it is really difficult to manoeuvre it into the firing position without exposing the squishy flanks. I really hoped that they would have buffed the sides to 12 in the new book, alas it didn't happen. The new AA tanks have AV12 sides, yet the have less use for that than Vindi. Vindicator sides even look much more heavily armoured than Rhino's or Predator's, yet they all have AV11.

That being said, I still use my Vindicator, it is an excellent fire magnet if nothing else.

 Jayden63 wrote:
I run two in my list. A single model will not due much due to the reasons Makumba mentioned. But two help with target saturation and you can often get more out of them. They also help with board control. Because there are just some thing you don't want to risk that template landing on.

Well done on 3000 post btw. That's the thing, the fear factor is effective.

Armor 11 is a joke. The best armies have insane maneuverability.

I still see them from time to time, most often in hands of veteran players who haven't raced to get Dev Centurions or Thunderfires.

Expect them not to be used aggresively, though. Premeasuring hurt them big, but as Jayden33 pointed out, they are still excellent for area denial.

Pretty much like everyone else has said - the range is bad and if you want one to actual live long enough to shoot at something, you generally need to have at least two of them in your list. That means two less Thunderfires, two less Storm Ravens, etc etc.

They are exceedingly easy to remove, and in almost every army that has access to them (even in the CSM book) there are much more efficient and competitive things.

My Vindicator serves as a firepower magnet first and foremost - its pretty intimidating

I used to run 3 in 5th, but now they are just not worth it. One main reason is because in 5th they would annihilate vehicles that were everywhere. Now they usually are shooting infantry which is just not efficient. When you only get 3 wounds and if they save 1 it feels like a complete wasted shot.

I usually run one in my games. Even though when it fires its cannon it hurts, it's better at psychological warfare than combat per se. My opponents do amusing things to run away or remove it asap, and there's potential in knowing that it steals so much spotlight.

Str 10 at 24" is terrible when you consider the amount of Str 8-9 at 72" that are out there.

Why would I want to bring a vehicle / bunker buster with arguably the shortest range ordinance weapon in game? There really isn't any reason sadly. I constantly fill my Heavy Support with Tri-Las-Preds. They have double the range, 3x the shots, and are more versatile. The only thing a Vindicator brings to a battle (As stated above) is the fear factor "Ooooo! Ahhhhhh! str 10!" That's where it stops though.

I plan on getting some for my Dark Angels. Seems to me it's our best Heavy Support choice as the LSV is hot garbage (90 fething points for that plasma gun on the back, are you joking me?) and we don't have thunderfire cannons, dev centurions, or storm ravens.

Hell, the latest Imperial Armor book moved Mortis-Contemptor Dreadnoughts into the elites slot so we don't even have that anymore.

I figure two vindicators that just go flat out on their first turn, one of them should survive. If I get lucky with my outflank rolls on my black knights, I could potentially instant-death some Riptides or any normally T6 models shooting them after dropping a rad grenade on their face. If there's anything left after the plasma spam.

Why not put two between two land raiders then?

 Rismonite wrote:
Why not put two between two land raiders then?

Because that's 700+ points without contents for the Land Raiders, troops or an HQ unit?

I don't get the fear factor . Why would someone fear a short ranged template weapon that maybe kills 2-3 models with its blast template and only if you somehow help them do it , because turn 1 they are not in range.

I'd love to see a vindicator variant that replaced the demolisher canon with a thunderfire canon.

I would love to see a Vindicator that has a Defilers Battle Cannon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Makumba wrote:
I don't get the fear factor . Why would someone fear a short ranged template weapon that maybe kills 2-3 models with its blast template and only if you somehow help them do it , because turn 1 they are not in range.

If you and your opponent get the long board sides for deployment, you are 24" away minimum. If you park your vindicators up at the maximum deployment length, you can then move 6" at combat speed and still fire your Demolisher Cannon

Makumba wrote:
I don't get the fear factor . Why would someone fear a short ranged template weapon that maybe kills 2-3 models with its blast template and only if you somehow help them do it , because turn 1 they are not in range.

Because not every one plays on their own table edge in a parking lot. There are some very points heavy models that have to close to be effective and do not have EW and are T5 or less. These are the sort of things that Vindicators put the fear into. There are also times when models find themselves bunched up and not spread out. That is when you take those shots of opportunity to get the most bang for your buck.

I run two also, and I find they do there job pretty well

They are amazing in the early game when you can drive up and have choice in where you are shooting. You do need two because they will be both shot.....alot.

With 13 front and siege shield on it, it's not that hard to position it just right so that armor is always facing the right way with some cover to boot. The Vindicator cannon is amazing, it makes everything go away, the range of the weapons is it's only down side.

It's not a bad vehicle, not as strong as in 5th edition, but it can defiantly fit well in a space marine army.

Makumba wrote:
I don't get the fear factor . Why would someone fear a short ranged template weapon that maybe kills 2-3 models with its blast template and only if you somehow help them do it , because turn 1 they are not in range.

For my orks, vindies are quite hard to deal with. My only source of mobile ranged s8 are koptas and the oh-so-flimsy warbuggies. Anything else must deal with front armor or risk getting close for an assault, which usually makes them the unwanting recipient of a s10 pie plate. My usual approach to Vindicators is ignoring them, but smart Space Marine players often position them near targets I'd normally send my Nob Bikers to deal with. That forces me to sacrifice some units to kill the vindies before getting to the soft core they so frequently guard.

My friend plays 2. He also plays Blood Angels. Fast vindicators terrify me!

The major reason is the short range of the vidicator cannon, and with the decreased survivability of tanks, it can easily get destroyed before it does much damage.


If people were going to bring a tank, they rather have more assured damage from sources such as a predator

 TechmarineNic wrote:
Why are vindicators not used as often As I thought they would be? They ignore difficult terrain (tell me if I'm wrong) and if used correctly can ruin armies troops on objectives . The only time I saw one used was a kid who though "Ooo big gun, gimme!"

If you know how arcs work, you can see how easily side arcs get exposed. On a Vindicator you're counting on, that's bad because it DOES have to move up for a round almost always. It's almost better as a counter atacking unit, perhaps from reserve, unless you have a very specific plan for it or a Land Raider to provide it shade on its way.

There are some very points heavy models that have to close to be effective and do not have EW and are T5 or less

Could you list a type of unit like that . Because all the high cost units I can think of all either scout , flying or very fast .

My only source of mobile ranged s8 are koptas and the oh-so-flimsy warbuggies.

Bur orks run 3 units of Lootaz and offten necron ally to get an AB and some tesla .

Vindicators are uncompetetive but the sheer blunt force of a S10 AP2 large blast creates a 24" zone of do-not-want around the tank. That's my experience at least. When my Vindicator blew up a Land Raider and allowed my Defiler's cannon to massacre the dudes inside... It pretty much won me a game (1k pts) on turn one and it burned the impression that 'Vindicators = scary gak' into the mind of everyone present. My opponent rolling a 1 for Sicarius' armour save against said Defiler shot did not help, either! Only 2 tacticals survived (Sicarius absorbed 2 hits with his armour before he died)

Tycho wrote:
Pretty much like everyone else has said - the range is bad and if you want one to actual live long enough to shoot at something, you generally need to have at least two of them in your list. That means two less Thunderfires, two less Storm Ravens, etc etc.

They are exceedingly easy to remove, and in almost every army that has access to them (even in the CSM book) there are much more efficient and competitive things.

I run a chaos army and one of the vehicle add-ons would be useful.

Makumba wrote:
Bur orks run 3 units of Lootaz and offten necron ally to get an AB and some tesla .

Yep, lootas can glance them to death. But it's a 1/6th chance. Despite the high volume of fire, chances of achieving a quick kill in one turn of shooting are rather low and, worse yet, you're not shooting them at targets that would fold like wet paper under all that s7.

Allies can even the odds for orks in almost every situation, though

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:

Makumba wrote:
I don't get the fear factor . Why would someone fear a short ranged template weapon that maybe kills 2-3 models with its blast template and only if you somehow help them do it , because turn 1 they are not in range.

For my orks, vindies are quite hard to deal with. My only source of mobile ranged s8 are koptas and the oh-so-flimsy warbuggies. Anything else must deal with front armor or risk getting close for an assault, which usually makes them the unwanting recipient of a s10 pie plate. My usual approach to Vindicators is ignoring them, but smart Space Marine players often position them near targets I'd normally send my Nob Bikers to deal with. That forces me to sacrifice some units to kill the vindies before getting to the soft core they so frequently guard.

Copters have 24" range themselves and move really fast. With twin-linked rokkits you can get that vindicator pretty fast.

I see a few armies using them (as has been mentioned it's often those that haven't rushed out for thunder fires or centurions)

It's often one in reserve, coming on turn 2/3 when the opponent is within 24 and getting a shot off before dying