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I once saw a Vindicator.



On the first turn, it took a lascannon to the left flank and crumpled into nothingness without firing a single shot.


I haven't seen once since.

Vindicators are great, but I'd rather have 2 Devastator squads.

If you are plagued by deep striking units, then the short range is less of a problem. The problem then is keeping the thing alive long enough to counter-punch. At that point, you're looking at redundancy or lots of bubble wrap.

One of my buddies who plays Chaos has one - it is usually either dead by the end of turn 2 or is ignored while it tries to position itself without getting lit up from the side. Wrapping it in cultists does help a little bit though.

Maybe it's just my look on things but the vindicator combines two qualities which are rarely needed in combination. Large pieplates are good vs hordes and high strenght/AP is usually necessary vs tanks or real tough targets that come in small portions.

If you want to thin out hordes from afar the whirlwind seems to be the better option (large range) while high strenght hits vs single targets can be achieved in different fashions (and probably cheaper).

I once took out an entire squad of Noise Marines with a single Vindicator shot.
2 Blastmasters and 8 more marines with Icon of FNPwhateverisitsname evaporated after pinging off its frontal armor.
I was happy. Really happy.
Then, in the next game, he got "deepstruck" by 3 Obliterators which wtfpwned its side armor.

Vindicators live a dangerous, but furious life

 Thairne wrote:
I once took out an entire squad of Noise Marines with a single Vindicator shot.
2 Blastmasters and 8 more marines with Icon of FNPwhateverisitsname evaporated after pinging off its frontal armor.
I was happy. Really happy.
Then, in the next game, he got "deepstruck" by 3 Obliterators which wtfpwned its side armor.

Vindicators live a dangerous, but furious life

What sort of horrible positioning allowed you to hit 10 at once.

Collapsed building or something like that?

I've bunched guys up using tankshock. Explode the ride they were in, before Daemons got redone, Pavain was a good way to do it. So there are ways.

It happens and sometimes there isn't a lot you can do to prevent it.

Vindi's tend to work ok in smaller battles rather than larger ones I've found, where their blast can have more of an impact. In larger battles the blast is less needed longer ranged AT support as well.

Vindi's tend to be a high priority target because of their powerful blast, nobody wants to get hit by it, so they'll make it a point to remove it quickly. The Vindi's issue is that is relatively easily sidelined or destroyed due to the single weapon and relatively weak side armor, despite frontal AV13.

Now, it is relatively cheap so it's got that going for it, which allows it to be well used as a bullet magnet to distract from other targets. Overall, it's not a bad vehicle, but better at low points values or as a bullet magnet.

Even if it's not killed, 1 Penetrating hit will at least make the Vindicator worthless for a turn 5/6ths of the time. Only one result on the damage chart *doesn't* either destroy you, your gun, or make you fire snap shots.

Waaaghpower wrote:
Even if it's not killed, 1 Penetrating hit will at least make the Vindicator worthless for a turn 5/6ths of the time. Only one result on the damage chart *doesn't* either destroy you, your gun, or make you fire snap shots.

Thats why I give mine the 2nd Storm Bolter and HK Missle. Give you less chance of taking out the big gun and something else to fire.

Really is a turn one bullet magnet.

Or a "back yard protector" for area denial, hide behind terrain and blast anything that comes around the corner.

No-one wants you to have the option to pick something and it dies (low volume mind you...).

The Predator outdoes it in either respect: Outfit with LC's and is a heavy killer or outfit with the AC/HBSS and kill most soft targets (8 shots!) and in all cases shoot 36" or better.

It is a fine looking model no matter the metal original or the newer plastic, too bad an up-close tank does not have the increased survivability needed.

Also see this post for various comparisons:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/436943.page

 Thairne wrote:
I once took out an entire squad of Noise Marines with a single Vindicator shot.
2 Blastmasters and 8 more marines with Icon of FNPwhateverisitsname evaporated after pinging off its frontal armor.
I was happy. Really happy.
Then, in the next game, he got "deepstruck" by 3 Obliterators which wtfpwned its side armor.

Vindicators live a dangerous, but furious life

how is it possible , in an edition where you can check range to everything , to deploy your 10 marines in a such a way that a big blast clips 10 of them. I mean what is next , plasma cannons being deadly weapons of doom.

The problems have been listed, but the biggest problem that I'd highlight is that its weapon is terrible. Yes, it's 10/1, but it's stuck with that awful large blast template.

Against opponents who know how to make good use of ruins, you're going to be lucky to get more than two hits even if you roll a hit on the scatter die. And then you can still roll 1's to wound, and your opponent always gets a cover save. Replace ruins with regular terrain, and the number of hits you get increases, but not more than like 1.

When you start with a half chance to hit, and add a half chance for the shot to bounce off cover, and then add in just how few it's possible for you to hit when your opponent knows what displacement means, and you're looking at, on average, less than one model killed per shot.

... when you even get to shoot it, which is a bit tough, given its range. And, of course, it does very little to monstrous creatures or anything that flies.

It's a decent tank with a decent price tag, but then they practically forgot to give it a weapon. Unless you're going rule of cool, or want a challenge, it's hard to see why you'd take one of these over, say, a predator.

I will admit that when I built my SW army when the new codex dropped I threw in two Vindicators because I wanted to run two vindicators and a LRC for some heavy in your face front armor doing the choo choo train dance. Very effective for moving upfield on turn 1 and getting those tanks into position.

However, if I was starting the army now, I probably wouldn't put in the vindicators and use Predators (because I'm a treadhead and I will always run armor) instead. However, I've been using both Vindicators for so long that I know how to make the rest of my army work with them even given their current disadvantages.

 Ailaros wrote:
The problems have been listed, but the biggest problem that I'd highlight is that its weapon is terrible. Yes, it's 10/1, but it's stuck with that awful large blast template.

Against opponents who know how to make good use of ruins, you're going to be lucky to get more than two hits even if you roll a hit on the scatter die. And then you can still roll 1's to wound, and your opponent always gets a cover save. Replace ruins with regular terrain, and the number of hits you get increases, but not more than like 1.

When you start with a half chance to hit, and add a half chance for the shot to bounce off cover, and then add in just how few it's possible for you to hit when your opponent knows what displacement means, and you're looking at, on average, less than one model killed per shot.

... when you even get to shoot it, which is a bit tough, given its range. And, of course, it does very little to monstrous creatures or anything that flies.

It's a decent tank with a decent price tag, but then they practically forgot to give it a weapon. Unless you're going rule of cool, or want a challenge, it's hard to see why you'd take one of these over, say, a predator.

I completely agree. The large blast is a rather ubiquitously overcosted weapon. The inability to hit fliers, the ineffectiveness against MCs and the situational use against infantry makes the vindicator's gun rather poor.

People make valid points about the inefficiency of the poor Vindicator. However, I find it amusing how much different it is in a casual or at most "semi-competitive" setting. My gaming friends rarely bother to "optimise" the deployment, etc., so Vindicator is actually pretty scary. To be honest, units that would be laughed at and wiped out in a tournament have a refuge in non-WAAC games.

 SarisKhan wrote:
People make valid points about the inefficiency of the poor Vindicator. However, I find it amusing how much different it is in a casual or at most "semi-competitive" setting. My gaming friends rarely bother to "optimise" the deployment, etc., so Vindicator is actually pretty scary. To be honest, units that would be laughed at and wiped out in a tournament have a refuge in non-WAAC games.

I agree. My super-expensive unit of Khorne Chosen jumps to mind. It would be instakilled ten times over in a tournament. In our casual games, it wrecks face.

Makumba wrote:

There are some very points heavy models that have to close to be effective and do not have EW and are T5 or less

Could you list a type of unit like that . Because all the high cost units I can think of all either scout , flying or very fast .

Centurions, Daemon Princes, (Mega)Nobz, Buffmander (!).


I still wouldn't take a Vindicator though, Ailaros summed up my own thoughts.