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Living in the Imperium is described as the cruelest tolitarian regime possible correct?

So I am reading the classic novel 1984 by George Orwell, and I am starting to see many similarities between living in the world of 1984 and the Imperium.

For example-

a central divine figure (big brother / the emperor), millions living in poverty, constant war with other nations, tons of propaganda, ruling with fear, seeding out heresy wherever it is found, etc...

Even though the citizens of the Imperium might not have cameras watching them at all times (who knows maybe on some planets they do), doesn't it seem like the day to day regime of the commoner is much like the book 1984?

Of course 1984 was written first, so that is most likely where the similarity came from. Anyhow, anyone feel free to tell me if you have ever envisioned the Imperium like this or have seen similarities between 1984 and 40k

Well each world is different, some worlds may live like us, some may sacrifice 50 children by burning them in an iron bull a year, some may live like well for each possibility you think of there is a planet. So safe to say SOME planets live poorly as you described, but many may live happily and normal.

George Orwell's 1984 is one of the most-influential novels for late-20th century Science-Fiction (which is when the idea of dystopian futures *really* took off). So, of course WH40K draws inspirations from it.

While there are many different kinds of worlds in the Imperium, with things like the Ecclesiarchy, the Arbites and the Inquisition, then the "Imperial average" is going to be something closer to 1984 than, say, a liberal democracy.

I really enjoyed reading that book, even though it was quite difficult to read. It is really fascinating.

But like I said before:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
There never was a Horus Heresy. Chaos does not exist.
Those are just stories and myths the Imperium makes up to keep the people from standing up against their horrible living conditions and rebelling against the High Lords.
The High Lords would do everything to preserve their privileges and dominion over humanity. The God-Emperor is just their version of Big Brother.

Maybe that would be valid if the Imperium didn't often do everything in their power to ensure that the people DON'T know anything about the existence of daemons or chaos.

Most people in the Imperium do know about the Warp and Chaos. The Imperium just does not want them to know anything beyond 'they are evil and we protect you from them'. Because if they knew the details, they would know that those so called 'Forces of Chaos' and 'Deamons' are just operatives of the High Lords that destroy a planet every now and then just to keep the Imperium's population fearful and opressed. That is why the Imperium so zealously hunts down any survivors of these operations.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
I really enjoyed reading that book, even though it was quite difficult to read. It is really fascinating.

But like I said before:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
There never was a Horus Heresy. Chaos does not exist.
Those are just stories and myths the Imperium makes up to keep the people from standing up against their horrible living conditions and rebelling against the High Lords.
The High Lords would do everything to preserve their privileges and dominion over humanity. The God-Emperor is just their version of Big Brother.

Maybe that would be valid if the Imperium didn't often do everything in their power to ensure that the people DON'T know anything about the existence of daemons or chaos.

Most people in the Imperium do know about the Warp and Chaos. The Imperium just does not want them to know anything beyond 'they are evil and we protect you from them'. Because if they knew the details, they would know that those so called 'Forces of Chaos' and 'Deamons' are just operatives of the High Lords that destroy a planet every now and then just to keep the Imperium's population fearful and opressed. That is why the Imperium so zealously hunts down any survivors of these operations.

Got any evidence for that? Oh, wait, you don't.

I really do get tried of these stupid 'conspiracy' W40K theories that make less sense than fething Roswell.

Well except for the fact that this contradicts a lot of fluff, invalidates two entire codices, and breaks more fluff than you can imagine, fun read! Seriously though, the warp and chaos being lies is nonsense. By this, we also have to cancel out psykers and pretty much everything else. Also it seems worthless to have forces of chaos and daemons when the High Lords already have armies that do that stuff and they do it in the fluff (be it IG, ships, SM forces, or even SoB)

Yep, 1984 probably had a significant influence on 40k. It was perhaps more noticeable on earlier materials (back when 40k had a strong element of political satire to it) but has endured until now. Even in Abnett's somewhat lighter-than-average view of the setting, the level of political and personal freedoms is on par with Orwell's Oceania.

The punishing poverty, prosecution of thoughtcrimes, a politically-charged vocabulary that doubles as propaganda and the pervasive personality cult are all there. However, 40k is at its most orwellian when you realize that the fluff itself is nothing but a collection of subjectivities, a story pieced together from the accounts of various unreliable narrators. Nothing is factual and, at the same time, everything is, as the reality of these accounts is impossible to verify.

Of course, it's a fictional universe. But unlike other fictional universes which consistently tell us that 2+2=5 and pretend to mask it under a cloak of worldbuliding consistency and verosimilitude, Warhammer 40k is purposefully written so that the reader is made aware that 2+2 could be 5, 3, 4 or whatever the narrator would want us believe.

This makes 40k seem wildly inconsistent, but at the same time it lends the setting a unique aura of unreality, a certain dreamlike feel. Have I mentioned that 40k has a huge potential for storytelling that other seemingly more solid, more comprehensive universes lack? Well, in my opinion, it has.

 Wyzilla wrote:


Got any evidence for that? Oh, wait, you don't.

I really do get tried of these stupid 'conspiracy' W40K theories that make less sense than fething Roswell.

Evidence? Tell me, have you ever heard of the word 'fiction'? There is zero possible evidence in all of 40k because it is just a piece of fiction. It does not actually exist therefore there can never be any evidence.
And 40k, even more so than other works fiction, is incredibly subjective. From an in-universe pov, everything written in the codices could just be lies and propaganda. Therefore it could make perfect sense for Chaos to not even actually exist. Psykers could get their power from a completely different source and spaceships may never actually travel through the Warp but have different, secret means of FTL travel.
And if you get tired of it, no one is forcing you to read it.
And as has been said in this thread already, 40k draws for a large part on 1984 and similar conspiracy theories, so if you don't like it, you should probably find something else. Or even better, never read any fiction at all, because fiction by its very nature makes less sense than 'fething Roswell'

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:


Got any evidence for that? Oh, wait, you don't.

I really do get tried of these stupid 'conspiracy' W40K theories that make less sense than fething Roswell.

Evidence? Tell me, have you ever heard of the word 'fiction'? There is zero possible evidence in all of 40k because it is just a piece of fiction. It does not actually exist therefore there can never be any evidence.
And 40k, even more so than other works fiction, is incredibly subjective. From an in-universe pov, everything written in the codices could just be lies and propaganda. Therefore it could make perfect sense for Chaos to not even actually exist. Psykers could get their power from a completely different source and spaceships may never actually travel through the Warp but have different, secret means of FTL travel.
And if you get tired of it, no one is forcing you to read it.
And as has been said in this thread already, 40k draws for a large part on 1984 and similar conspiracy theories, so if you don't like it, you should probably find something else. Or even better, never read any fiction at all, because fiction by its very nature makes less sense than 'fething Roswell'

W40K has established canon and the 'propaganda' angle holds zero water when actually applied, as there are numerous instances where such propaganda or hyperbole events cannot exist as there were zero witnesses to it. You insane, unsupported views are simply that, unsupported with no material at all suggesting they are true, especially considering they go against the word of those who own the IP. It doesn't matter what you think or like. If the owner of the IP states it, publishes it, or endorses it, its word is that of god. Headcanon is both stupid and simply annoying, especially when it has absolutely no sense to it unlike more reliable fan theories. Even the idea that the Blood Ravens are loyalist Thousand Sons is lest ludicrous and slightly more supported by published material than whatever the hell it is behind your strange ideas.

And no, the point of Roswell analogy was a fairly strange incident where, instead of paying attention and putting the obvious together, decided to take a completely outlandish idea and run with it for no good reason at all.

'Did a strange aircraft that crashed right by a air force base known for testing aircraft and launching stranger craft than civilians are used to? Yes? IT'S OBVIOUSLY ALINES AND CERTAINLY NOT THE MILITARY!'

There's a reason why people don't take anyone seriously who believes in the Lizardmen 'theory'.

Imperium is corrupt,abuses workers,kills them off, doesn't value human life, cruel...sounds like my kind of world!

Don't forget the eugenics programs!

Wyzilla wrote:W40K has established canon

Ah, not... not really, apart from a very short list of things. Which is what makes discussions of certain tech and the like so damnably difficult, because the way things work in these ten books is not how they work in these other ten books.

Just look at the number of people who take Sandy Mitchell's writings over the Codices in regards to the Sisters of Battle!

Iron_Captain wrote: . From an in-universe pov, everything written in the codices could just be lies and propaganda. Therefore it could make perfect sense for Chaos to not even actually exist. Psykers could get their power from a completely different source and spaceships may never actually travel through the Warp but have different, secret means of FTL travel.
And if you get tired of it, no one is forcing you to read it.

Well... no. There's plenty of things told from a perspective of the omniscient reader that establishes what Chaos is, what the Warp is, and all that kind of thing. The idea that Chaos is a fictional thing, like the back-and-forth wars between Eurasia, Eastasia and Oceania in 1984, is simply not supported by anything at all in the game.

So if you want to run your games under those auspices, knock yourself out, but using that POV as commentary on the setting, as written and presented, is like trying to argue the results of a DC super-hero movie because you wrote an OC-containing fanfic using some of the same characters. Such events exist only in your mind, rather than the accepted narrative.

Regarding 40K canon, Aaron Dembski-Bowden, a BL writer, once made a post on here in which he said "It's all true and nothing is true". It's an interesting read.

 Psienesis wrote:
Just look at the number of people who take Sandy Mitchell's writings over the Codices in regards to the Sisters of Battle!

Indeed. A fair few people are willing to accept that the most hardcore religious fanatics in the Imperium are also allowed to indulge in casual sex or drinking, even when shown the codex fluff about them living extremely controlled lives. Though an advantage of 40K canon working the way is does is that one can disregard Mitchell's portrayal and stick to the codex fluff for the Sisters and not be at all wrong for it.

Well, a certain organization raised the standard of what contemporary and future totalitarian regimes strive for to controll their population, more than Orwell had imagined 60 years ago. The instruments for this are already in use.