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Land Raider Orpheus - BS-4 F-15-S-14-R14 HP:4 - 265 pts
Wargear

Hull mounted avenger mega bolter

Two sponson mounted hellfury cannons

Siege shield

Searchlight

Smoke launchers

[u]Special Rules

Ammunition Stores

Assault Vehicle

Power of the Machine Spirit

Transport Capacity

Ten models

Options

May take items from the Vehicle Equipment List

Mat take explosive rounds ... 25pts[list][May take Ammo Hard cases ... 10pts

Hellfury Cannons: Hellfury cannons are fired as two twin linked assault cannons.
Ammunition Stores: When a weapons destroyed result is rolled against this vehicle roll an additional die. On a 5+ the vehicle looses an additional hull point.
Explosive Rounds: All bolter weapons and assault cannons are treated as being one better armor penetration. Ammunition Store rolls receive a -1 penalty.
Ammo Hard-cases: Ammunition Store rolls receive a +1 bonus.

I think that's more than a 15 point upgrade between the extra point of armour, siege shield and increased firepower (an assault cannon is stronger than a Lascannon in most circumstances, two twin-linked assault cannons per sponson is going to do epic amounts of damage. Also, don't Assault Cannons already fire explosive ammunition? Finally, since you are putting enough highs powered, high rate of fire, hard ammunition using weapons on the vehicle that it suffers from a greater risk of localized explosions for holding all the ammo, shouldn't the transport capacity be reduced?

totally undercosted, but i like the idea.

The LRTU is 300 points.

This is better for less points.

First off, with the Vulcan mega bolter, you have to completely drop the transport capacity to 0. It simply takes up too much space considering ammo and such.

Secondly, explosive rounds a bit OP on the assault cannon since it already has rending. Really should drop that as an option.

Third, armor 15 is not something that should be on a vehicle. 15 represents layered Walls that would weigh too much for anything less than a superheavy vehicle to move with.


So, in short, drop the armor buff, explosive rounds and cargo capacity, then increase the price to around 300. Also allow it to purchase up to 4 hunter killer missles for 10pts each. You now have a main battle tank for the space marines.

Imagine this baby twin-linked from prescience..........

The more I look at it, the most it gets overpriced. Missed the AV15 on first glance, and the fact that the sponsons were 2xTLAsCs in each.

If we use the basic LR as a base, we start at 250 points.

Swap out the TLLCs for TLAsC for free. If you want to keep your quad mount Hellfury’s, I’d bump the price up 30-40 points for that.

We talking about the S6 AP4 Heavy 5 Avenger Mega Bolter? The DA fighter swaps that in instead of TLLCs. So if we are replacing the TLHB mount on the stock LR, that’s probably another +20 points.

The siege shield is 10 points on a vindicator, and dozer blades are not normally available on LRs.

I’m not sure what the markup should be for going to AV15 on the front. I would strongly recommend dropping this idea. If you want to make it tougher, give it ceremite armor, or one of the other “I laugh at special weapon rules” upgrades. If you want to keep it, it should bump the cost up at least 15 points.

Now you do have a drawback with the ammo stores. But it is very situational. If you take a pen, and if you get a weapon destroyed, then you take an extra HP if you roll a 5+. That’s a lot of “ifs” I’d give you 5 points off if I was being generous. You want to represent rolling around in a giant ammo dump? Treat all weapon destroyed results as “explodes” on a 4+. I’ll call that a disad worth some points.

I would drop the idea of the explosive ammo. Going from AP4 to AP3 is huge. If you do keep it at the price you have, you need a bigger drawback. Something like “Gets Hot!” or take a +1 on damage rolls to the tank.

As written, this monster is closer to 325 points by my math.

Some things you can do to lower the price:
Cut the cargo. Drop down to 6 men.
Ditch the assault ramp.
Boost the disadvantage to something actually harmful.
Tone down the sponson guns and front armor.

why does it have a siege shield? Land raiders don't have access to dozer blades for a reason.

`

It was originaly inspired by an ares. I like the look of the sieges shield and the bumped up front armor was inspired by the vindicator.

The transport capacity is only 10, compared to the 16 a crusader would have. I don't think bullets take up as much aspace as batteries.

Its not a vulcan mega bolter, its an avenger mega bolter from the dark angels books. 48" range, S:6 P:4 Heavy 5. Ok so here is the rework,

Land Raider Orpheus - BS-4 F-15-S-14-R12 HP:4 - 300 pts
Wargear

Hull mounted avenger mega bolter

Two sponson mounted hellfury cannons

Siege shield

Searchlight

Smoke launchers

Special Rules

Ammunition Stores

Power of the Machine Spirit

Transport Capacity

Ten models

Access Points

The vehicle has two access points on either side of its hull.

Options

May take items from the Vehicle Equipment List

Mat take explosive rounds ... 50pts

May take Ammo Hard cases ... 10pts

Hellfury Cannons: Hellfury cannons are fired as two twin linked assault cannons.
Ammunition Stores: When a weapons destroyed result is rolled against this vehicle roll an additional die. On a 5+ the vehicle looses an additional hull point.
Explosive Rounds: All bolter weapons and assault cannons are treated as being one better armor penetration and have the Gets Hot special rule. Ammunition Store rolls receive a -1 penalty.
Ammo Hard-cases: Ammunition Store rolls receive a +1 bonus. The vehicles transport capacity is reduced by 2 models.

Just make them cheaper. That's the only change I want.

Points are a bit better now, but a few points:

Vindicator has a higher front AV because it's got heavier base armour (like the Predator) not because of the Siege Shield. Indeed the Siege Shield is an upgrade so not even factored into the AV at all. I can't even think of a super-heavy tank with an AV of 15.

The Crusader uses smaller bullets and likely has a lower rate of fire (12 Bolter barrels vs 48 Assault Cannon barrels). It also doesn't have Avenger Mega Bolter, which seems to fire bigger shells than an assault cannon and has a higher rate of fire.

You're making the point that this thing has so much ammunition on board that it suffers from an increased risk of damage with ammunition cooking off. You're describing it as a rolling ammo box then giving it the same transport capacity as a regular raider, which makes little sense to me.

The Landraiders geared up for fire support that have a transport capacity usually top out at 6 models. That might be a better route to go.

Also, Assault Cannons and Bolters already fire explosive ammunition, so an upgrade to explosive ammunition would be redundant and ineffective. Some sort of enhanced armour penetrating ammunition might be an option, but since it no longer has the explosive effect to add to damage you'd probably reduce the strength by 1 to improve the AP by 1. Then again, since this thing is loaded with 4 twin-linked assault cannons, you really don't need a better AP, rending handles your AP needs nicely when you get to roll to wound 14 times.

I hear what you guys are saying about the armor thing, and I don't know if you noticed in revision 2 I dropped the lower armor to 12 to make up for the higher armor in the front. I feel that is a fair trade off and makes the vehicle much more tacitcal, especialy since this thing has a big but and no rear facing weapons. The last revision also stripped it of assault vehicle and the forward access point because of all the bullets its hauling around.

Take 3.
Land Raider Orpheus - BS-4 F-15-S-14-R12 HP:4 - 300 pts
Wargear

Hull mounted avenger mega bolter

Two sponson mounted hellfury cannons

Searchlight

Smoke launchers

Special Rules

Ammunition Stores

Power of the Machine Spirit

Transport Capacity

Eight models

Access Points

The vehicle has two access points on either side of its hull.

Options

May take items from the Vehicle Equipment List

May take high-yield rounds ... 50pts

May take Ammo Hard cases ... 10pts

May take a Siege Shield .. 15pts

Hellfury Cannons: Hellfury cannons are fired as two twin linked assault cannons.
Ammunition Stores: When a weapons destroyed result is rolled against this vehicle roll an additional die. On a 4+ the vehicle looses an additional hull point.
High-Yield Rounds: All bolter weapons and assault cannons are treated as being one better armor penetration and have the Gets Hot special rule. Ammunition Store rolls receive a -1 penalty.
Ammo Hard-cases: Ammunition Store rolls receive a +1 bonus. The vehicles transport capacity is reduced by 2 models.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
why does it have a siege shield? Land raiders don't have access to dozer blades for a reason.

`

Dark angels do, i think blood angels too?

I still don't think you can give it the front armor of 15. Titans can't even go past 14. If you want to make something sturdier you give it additional hull points or other special rules, but you can't really surpass the ceiling of AV 14.

Land Raider Orpheus - BS-4 F-14-S-14-R14 HP:4 - 300 pts
Wargear

Hull mounted avenger mega bolter

Two sponson mounted hellfury cannons

Searchlight

Smoke launchers

Special Rules

Ammunition Stores

Power of the Machine Spirit

Transport Capacity

Eight models

Access Points

The vehicle has two access points on either side of its hull.

Options

May take items from the Vehicle Equipment List

May take high-yield rounds ... 50pts

May take Ammo Hard cases ... 10pts

May take a Siege Shield .. 15pts

Hellfury Cannons: Hellfury cannons are fired as two twin linked assault cannons.
Ammunition Stores: When a weapons destroyed result is rolled against this vehicle roll an additional die. On a 4+ the vehicle looses an additional hull point.
High-Yield Rounds: All bolter weapons and assault cannons are treated as being one better armor penetration and have the Gets Hot special rule. Ammunition Store rolls receive a -1 penalty.
Ammo Hard-cases: Ammunition Store rolls receive a +1 bonus. The vehicles transport capacity is reduced by 2 models.

I'd play against that

I think it might be a tad overpowered, but close enough to try a few games and see how it does on the table. If you play test it, let us know how you do.

Well, it looks fine, since it's using the nerfed version of the Avenger.

The last incarnation looks pretty reasonable, though I'd suggest making High Yield and Hard Cases mutually exclusive.

So even with 15 LR variants for SM, you still want more?...

Greedy marines ;p

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
So even with 15 LR variants for SM, you still want more?...

Greedy marines ;p

I count eleven, if we're including the Spartan in this (Phobos, Crusader, Redeemer, Terminus Ultra, Ares, Achilles, Hellfire, Helios, Prometheus, Proteus, Spartan). Surprisingly little redundancy, actually, given the lack of era overlap (the Ares wasn't legal anymore by the time the Redeemer came around to replace it, the Hellfire only appeared in Rogue Trader, and the Spartan is the 30k version of the Phobos). This new one here doesn't really step on any toes role-wise given that it's a mid-range versatile-target vehicle compared to a couple of long-range anti-tank vehicles, some close-range transport/anti-infantry vehicles, and a couple of tough global support rule tanks. The closest thing to an overlap is the Achilles, which it (fortunately) does not share some horrible balance problems with.