Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Impressively, Dakka seems to be heavily devoid of racism, be it overt or more insidious. I don't if I should praise the mods or if the community is simply more "enlightened" and less hateful than many other forums. Nearly anywhere else racism is rampant. In most cases it is subtle, but still there. I don't know if technology has allowed racist ideology to simply be transmitted faster or if racism is simply on the upswing in America. It seems as if you can find cases of every ethnicity/racial group being racist against every other one, but the most disturbing groups that I have noticed are white power fanatics and their direct opposition, the black power movement.

I'm sure everyone is familiar with white power groups, such as the KKK and Aryan Brotherhood. You might also be familiar with the infamous Stormfront. White racism against everyone is well documented and is extremely evident in the culture up until recent years. I believe we are now in the midst of the first generation that has grown up with internet access and a childhood of gaming. This particular group is extremely fond of making racist, misogynistic, and homophobic insults. I am not sure if these comments reflect the individuals actual beliefs or if they are simply a result of internet anonymity. What I am sure of is that there a great deal of angry, antisocial young white males with misplaced hatred toward African-American males for being perceived superior athletes and having superior genetics (go read the misc section of bodybuilding.com or /fit for a week and you will see what I mean) and women for either not being slutty enough or for being too slutty. The Madonna-Whore complex is alive and well. There is also of course generalized racism against anyone that is non-white. Surprisingly certain forums are becoming much more tolerant of homosexuality in general while remaining fairly racist and misogynistic.

I doubt most people are very familiar with black racism against whites and Jews. The Nation of Islam promoted racist ideology in the form of African superiority at the expense of everyone else, specifically whites. The Nation of Gods and Earths (possibly better known as Five Percenters) followed in their footsteps and promotes a similar ideology. A very high number of rappers and other individuals involved in the hip-hop community, specifically the Golden Age, are self proclaimed Five Percenters. These two groups have spread their teachings throughout the African-American community outside the scope of the mainstream media in the years following the Civil Rights Movement. I'm sure most of you are familiar with the claims that Jesus was a black man and that the ancient Egyptians were also black. You probably dismissed these as simply being an attempt at racial empowerment. Perhaps, in some cases it is that and nothing more. Far too often it is not. There are are truly those within the African-American community that believe Africans are inherently superior to all other racial groups and that the white man is the devil.

I can't say if reverse racism actually exists at an institutionalized level. It certainly exists at a micro level.

http://diaryofanegress.com/2012/12/27/21-harsh-truths-white-people-dont-want-to-hear/

Highlights:

3. No matter how much surgery you have, you’ll never compare to a black woman’s natural beauty:

4. You are the only race on Earth that cannot live harmoniously with nature.

5. Your desperate attempt to be “like us” is pathetic:

11. Without your white skin, you’d be nothing.

21. You cheat, lie and manipulate your way to the top because deep down, you know you cannot compete at a level playing field with everyone else.

http://abagond.wordpress.com/2011/09/27/the-hearts-of-white-people-part-ii/

Nor can it even be accounted for by mere power since, like their cousins the Nazis, they exercise that power in sick and twisted ways not commonly seen in others.

There is something else at work. My best guess is that it is a psychological disorder caused by the way they bring up their children. What White Americans would quickly call a pathology if it were found in black people. Whatever it is, it makes them unaccepting of people who are different and gives them a need to look down on and dehumanize others in order to feel good about themselves.

There are naturally black power websites akin to Stormfront. See http://www.assatashakur.org/forum/forum.php I've frequently seen people decry or downplay the existence of racism against whites. It is there. The numbers may be small, but the intense hatred is undoubtedly out there.

How can a nation hope to heal at this point? Is racism actually a significant issue in America or these merely fringe extremists?

I don't think their getting any worse. Granted, I've lived my entire life in a color neutral world (the military), so I can't really say with any authority. I've seen racism for sure. Cross burning's in my neighbors yard when I lived in Louisiana, to lets kick the gak out of whitey in inner city areas. But it's still incredibly rare when I see overt racism, enough so that I find it simply shocking.

That's in real life at least. I see it all the time on the internet.

I don't think it's getting much better at all.

As we've seen with the Martin and Dunn cases, a large portion of black America is intent on emphatically stating that those two judgements have declared "open season" on black youth.

Coupled with the fact that any black American who's views align more with a conservative viewpoint is labeled an Uncle Tom And the fact that most whites are terrified to talk about race for fear of being blacklisted as a racist, and you've got an equation that hardly screams "better race relations."

Is it as out in the open anymore? Not hardly.

Are we even close to people being comfortable with it. No way.

We actually police ourselves up though DJ before the Mods start swinging the bat. Why start this thread being we have one going on with Trex and DJ (Hand pointing at both of you) in another thread

I don't know if they are getting worse. If anything I think they might be getting somewhat better and the internet just exacerbates it.

When I was a kid, I remember riots going on for days in Crown Heights, riots in LA - I haven't seen anything on that level in years.

 Jihadin wrote:
We actually police ourselves up though DJ before the Mods start swinging the bat. Why start this thread being we have one going on with Trex and DJ (Hand pointing at both of you) in another thread

Huh?

 cincydooley wrote:
ICoupled with the fact that any black American who's views align more with a conservative viewpoint is labeled an Uncle Tom

needs citation

 Ouze wrote:
I don't know if they are getting worse. If anything I think they might be getting somewhat better and the internet just exacerbates it.

When I was a kid, I remember riots going on for days in Crown Heights, riots in LA - I haven't seen anything on that level in years.

Agreed.

Relations are "better" than probably ever...

I think it really started in my generation (the 80's/early 90's) as we weren't alive during the Civil Rights years.

We catch ourselves from getting out of hand DJ

 Ouze wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
ICoupled with the fact that any black American who's views align more with a conservative viewpoint is labeled an Uncle Tom

needs citation

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/01/21/naacp-attacks-tim-scott.html

Good enough?

 whembly wrote:
Relations are "better" than probably ever...

I think it really started in my generation (the 80's/early 90's) as we weren't alive during the Civil Rights years.

I don't think there's anything people or society do to make it better. I think that the people who are more xenophobic simply get old and die, and younger people are less xenophobic, repeat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 whembly wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
ICoupled with the fact that any black American who's views align more with a conservative viewpoint is labeled an Uncle Tom

needs citation

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/01/21/naacp-attacks-tim-scott.html

Good enough?

No. That is a single example. I want the rule that says, as Cincy said, any.

 Ouze wrote:

 whembly wrote:
Relations are "better" than probably ever...

I think it really started in my generation (the 80's/early 90's) as we weren't alive during the Civil Rights years.

I don't think there's anything people or society do to make it better. I think that the people who are more xenophobic simply get old and die, and younger people are less xenophobic, repeat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 whembly wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
ICoupled with the fact that any black American who's views align more with a conservative viewpoint is labeled an Uncle Tom

needs citation

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/01/21/naacp-attacks-tim-scott.html

Good enough?

No. That is a single example. I want the rule that says, as Cincy said, any.

Ah... okay.

 Jihadin wrote:
We catch ourselves from getting out of hand DJ

I could be mistaken but I don't believe I have ever seen anything on this forum that was legitimately racist to the point it needed to be moderated. I am sure some mod is reading this and snickering but that was my anecdotal experience.

Hint
Edited by "MoD name"

I think we need to distinguish between actual, honest to God racism, and loudmouthed teenagers. Kids calling people November* in a forum isn't a problem in the way that Stormfront or the Nation of Islam are problems. It isn't good that kids do it, but it just isn't on the same scale.

And once we seperate that out, well looking at the various hate groups out there, I think just about everyone is on the decline, and not one has the numbers to impact politics at even a local level. That doesn't mean everything is okay, individuals will still suffer as a result of these idiots, but history seems to be heading in the right direction.

Really, I think the bigger issue of race at this point is passive, not overtly racist claims made by people who identify as racial seperatists or supremacists, but everyday people who still have unchallenged racist assumptions. cincydooley raises a good example - the portion of the black community who immediately identified with Martin because of his race, and assumed the result of the trial was due to race - a lot of underlying racial ideas there that needed examination. Another example would be the tendency of many people to associate welfare with black people. Those issues are serious and need to be slowly dismantled over time, but they're nothing like the scale of race problems of the past.



*Thanks for teaching me something new Jihadin

I think it's sensationalized in the media... as evidenced by the recent Zimmerman / Dunn trials.

If anything I see more "tribal" discrimination than "racial" discrimination these days...

Everyone is racist to a degree even if they do not know it. What might be "norms" in your perception is not "norm" to others.

 Ouze wrote:


No. That is a single example. I want the rule that says, as Cincy said, any.

I mean, give me any black public figure that doesn't identify as a typical liberal.

Artur Davis
Herman Caine

Hell, even Condi Rice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jihadin wrote:
Everyone is racist to a degree even if they do not know it. What might be "norms" in your perception is not "norm" to others.

I don't think everyone is racist. I think everyone is prone to stereotyping, which can lead to unintended prejudice.

But both racism and bigotry, IMO and by definition, have a pretty clear "premeditation" aspect to them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean feth. Clarence Thomas got called an Uncle Tom THIS MONTH!

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/02/114761-day-clarence-thomas-says-race-conscious-black-lawmaker-calls-uncle-tom/

I think they're getting better. Incidents like the Treyvon Martin shooting open the scab, but for the most part I think the US is slowly getting past race as an issue.

Edit - At some point you have to stop being Charlie Brown to someone else's Lucy.

 Ouze wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
I mean, give me any black public figure that doesn't identify as a typical liberal.

You're asking me to prove your ridiculous premise that " any black American who's views align more with a conservative viewpoint is labeled an Uncle Tom" ? No, I will not do research to prove your ridiculous idea is not true.

If by "research" you mean "5 second google search" then I'm sure you can't be bothered.

But you know, whatever man.

edit:n/m

 Jihadin wrote:
Everyone is racist to a degree even if they do not know it. What might be "norms" in your perception is not "norm" to others.

Will this song EVER stop coming in handy?

 Ouze wrote:


I could be mistaken but I don't believe I have ever seen anything on this forum that was legitimately racist to the point it needed to be moderated. I am sure some mod is reading this and snickering but that was my anecdotal experience.

I am ashamed of you, how could you forget the absolute brilliance of this thread and the crazed posts by the sites creator
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/529400.page

Oh man, I forgot about that guy. Good call. I still see him show up now and then, too. Sometimes he tries to, you know, be subtle, with a normal-ish first post and then BOOM RAMPS IT UP BY POST 2, and then the lock.

He's the guy who shows up with those weird western/anime threads now and then, right?

 Ouze wrote:
Oh man, I forgot about that guy. Good call. I still see him show up now and then, too. Sometimes he tries to, you know, be subtle, with a normal-ish first post and then BOOM RAMPS IT UP BY POST 2, and then the lock.

He's the guy who shows up with those weird western/anime threads now and then, right?

Those were some of the OT's best threads.

 Jihadin wrote:
Everyone is racist to a degree even if they do not know it. What might be "norms" in your perception is not "norm" to others.

quoted for truth. If you judge people based on clothing /grooming you sure as hell are judging them unconsciously based on their nationality /skin colour. Uncomfortable but true.

 whembly wrote:
I think it's sensationalized in the media... as evidenced by the recent Zimmerman / Dunn trials.

If anything I see more "tribal" discrimination than "racial" discrimination these days...

It's certainly sensationalised in the media, who give lots of screen time to the people who's job it is to make outrageous comments about race, whilefor the most part people just keep on going about their lives. The days of lynchings after a black guy wins the heavyweight title are long behind us.

What do you mean by 'tribal' racism?

Condi Rice: http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2012-09-06/news/luke-s-gospel-condoleezza-rice-is-an-uncle-tom/full/

Herman Caine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1HnCPPymnY

Artur Davis: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/28/congressional-black-caucus-blasts-artur-davis-over-party-switch/

I mean, I can keep going.

Then there's this gem from the non-politics arena:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/12/15/stephen_a_smith_ostracizing_black_conservatives_makes_absolutely_no_sense_whatsoever.html

Or this:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/video-espn-rob-parker-says-ridiculous-things-rg3-195448822--nfl.html

Or if you want to avoid sports:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2214933/Whatever-Clueless-star-Stacey-Dash-moves-forward-Twitter-backlash-support-Mitt-Romney.html

I mean, I can keep going. I realize you really want to hang on the "any" generalization and that's fine. But please, don't pretend it's a not a huge, very real issue.

Explicit Racism is very much on the decline, but instituitional racism isnt. Now, IR is not in itself caused by any group of people today. But it once was. Like the Redlining(The practice of preventing anyone from buying in an african neighborhood, leaving the affluent out) of African Neighborhoods after WW2. That practice is no longer there, but it affects are still being felt because things are slow to change. But like i said, today it is not caused by anyone but a ripple effect. But many people like to think it still does. Lets put it another way. Bad schools in African Neighborhoods lead to no acceptence in college, leading into poverty where they cannot escape starting to process with their children. But people still think that their is some grand master pulling strings or out to get you.