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Made in us
Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend



Maine

So, I have only recently begun to really get into 40k (over the past few months), and I chose Orks due to their overall pleasing models and ability to be simply wonky and painfully silly. Now, knowing my reasons, it's not like I should expect to win often. But I have to say, I would like to win at least a single game. As of the roughly 20 games of various point sizes, I have one not a single game.

This may be due to my local players, who use basically nothing except Tau, Chaos, and Eldar. Either way, it's a bit frustration to play and never come close to winning anything. Objectives, Kill Points, or otherwise.

My model count is pretty decent I feel:

- A bit over 100 Boyz
- 4 Trukks (one in construction)
- 20ish Nobz
- 17 Bikes
- 9 Deffcopters
- 10 Burna Boyz
- 11 Lootas
- 20 Stormboyz (Also have Zagstruk)
- Several Warbosses
- KFF Mek
- Weirdboy
- 6 Killa Kanz


I've tried several methods of combat. I've tried the mass mobs in order to hold objectives and lay down firepower if anyone tries to get close.

I've tried Speed Freeks, which only seems to work some of the time (Though has thus far been my most durable, Nob bikers are rugged)

I've tried Trukk Missiles, though they don't seem effective without MANz, which I lack and can't seem to get my hands on (Having trouble forcing myself to pay 22 bucks per)

Most hilarious and somehow effective method of coming close to winning is Weirdboy Deep Striking a blob of Shoota Boyz behind their ranks for mayhem and distractions.

I know Orks are suffering right now due to a poor codex compared to...well...EVERYTHING else right now. But what are some good strategies people have with Orks against my more common foes? (Tau, Eldar, Chaos).

(Currently trying to force myself to shell out for Wagons or Jets...but I'm a cheap tightwad D: )
   
Made in au
Major




Fortress of Solitude

If you want to win with a still sort of fun list, try two bikernob deathstars at 1750.

@HQ [ 2 ]

Warboss (165pt.) Power klaw; Shoota/Skorcha; Warbike; Attack squig; Cyborg body; 'eavy armour; Bosspole;

Warboss (165pt.) Power klaw; Shoota/Skorcha; Warbike; Attack squig; Cyborg body; 'eavy armour; Bosspole;

@Troops [ 6 ]

10x - Nobz (630pt.)
> 3x - Nob (75pt.); Warbike; Power klaw; Slugga; Cybork body;
> 2x - Nob (55pt.); Warbike; Choppa; Slugga; Bosspole; Cybork body;
> 3x - Nob (50pt.); Warbike; Choppa; Slugga; Cybork body;
> 1x - Nob (65pt.); Warbike; Choppa; Slugga; Waaagh! banner; Cybork body;
> 1x - Painboy (80pt.); Urty syringe; Dok's tools; Warbike; Cybork body;

10x - Nobz (630pt.)
> 3x - Nob (75pt.); Warbike; Power klaw; Slugga; Cybork body;
> 2x - Nob (55pt.); Warbike; Choppa; Slugga; Bosspole; Cybork body;
> 3x - Nob (50pt.); Warbike; Choppa; Slugga; Cybork body;
> 1x - Nob (65pt.); Warbike; Choppa; Slugga; Waaagh! banner; Cybork body;
> 1x - Painboy (80pt.); Urty syringe; Dok's tools; Warbike; Cybork body;

11x - Gretchins (40pt.)
> 1x - Runtheard (10pt.); Grabba stikk; Slugga; Squig hound;
> 10x - Gretchins (3pt.); Blasta;

11x - Gretchins (40pt.)
> 1x - Runtheard (10pt.); Grabba stikk; Slugga; Squig hound;
> 10x - Gretchins (3pt.); Blasta;

11x - Gretchins (40pt.)
> 1x - Runtheard (10pt.); Grabba stikk; Slugga; Squig hound;
> 10x - Gretchins (3pt.); Blasta;

11x - Gretchins (40pt.)
> 1x - Runtheard (10pt.); Grabba stikk; Slugga; Squig hound;
> 10x - Gretchins (3pt.); Blasta;

Something like that perhaps.

Celesticon 2013 Warhammer 40k Tournament- Best General
Sydney August 2014 Warhammer 40k Tournament-Best General 
   
Made in us
Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend



Maine

Spoiler:
 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
If you want to win with a still sort of fun list, try two bikernob deathstars at 1750.

@HQ [ 2 ]

Warboss (165pt.) Power klaw; Shoota/Skorcha; Warbike; Attack squig; Cyborg body; 'eavy armour; Bosspole;

Warboss (165pt.) Power klaw; Shoota/Skorcha; Warbike; Attack squig; Cyborg body; 'eavy armour; Bosspole;

@Troops [ 6 ]

10x - Nobz (630pt.)
> 3x - Nob (75pt.); Warbike; Power klaw; Slugga; Cybork body;
> 2x - Nob (55pt.); Warbike; Choppa; Slugga; Bosspole; Cybork body;
> 3x - Nob (50pt.); Warbike; Choppa; Slugga; Cybork body;
> 1x - Nob (65pt.); Warbike; Choppa; Slugga; Waaagh! banner; Cybork body;
> 1x - Painboy (80pt.); Urty syringe; Dok's tools; Warbike; Cybork body;

10x - Nobz (630pt.)
> 3x - Nob (75pt.); Warbike; Power klaw; Slugga; Cybork body;
> 2x - Nob (55pt.); Warbike; Choppa; Slugga; Bosspole; Cybork body;
> 3x - Nob (50pt.); Warbike; Choppa; Slugga; Cybork body;
> 1x - Nob (65pt.); Warbike; Choppa; Slugga; Waaagh! banner; Cybork body;
> 1x - Painboy (80pt.); Urty syringe; Dok's tools; Warbike; Cybork body;

11x - Gretchins (40pt.)
> 1x - Runtheard (10pt.); Grabba stikk; Slugga; Squig hound;
> 10x - Gretchins (3pt.); Blasta;

11x - Gretchins (40pt.)
> 1x - Runtheard (10pt.); Grabba stikk; Slugga; Squig hound;
> 10x - Gretchins (3pt.); Blasta;

11x - Gretchins (40pt.)
> 1x - Runtheard (10pt.); Grabba stikk; Slugga; Squig hound;
> 10x - Gretchins (3pt.); Blasta;

11x - Gretchins (40pt.)
> 1x - Runtheard (10pt.); Grabba stikk; Slugga; Squig hound;
> 10x - Gretchins (3pt.); Blasta;

Something like that perhaps.


That may work. I've always enjoyed the Bikers, and they honestly seem to be the ONLY thing that works. The only thing I might change would be to use Wazdakka, so I could take some as Troops, so they could score objectives. Though to save some points, I'd take off 'eavy armor. The bike already gives a 4+ Armor Save +, 4+ cover save, so the Warboss wouldn't really need that much. Especially since every army I've played knock out 3+ armor saves anyway.

Though, I need to convert a Wazdakka...if only I was good at that sort of thing. Might tinker around with my extra Nob bitz, see if I can then tweak a bike somehow.

Anyhow, thank you for the suggestion. I may give mass bikes a second try.
   
Made in au
Major




Fortress of Solitude

Melevolence wrote:
Spoiler:
 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
If you want to win with a still sort of fun list, try two bikernob deathstars at 1750.

@HQ [ 2 ]

Warboss (165pt.) Power klaw; Shoota/Skorcha; Warbike; Attack squig; Cyborg body; 'eavy armour; Bosspole;

Warboss (165pt.) Power klaw; Shoota/Skorcha; Warbike; Attack squig; Cyborg body; 'eavy armour; Bosspole;

@Troops [ 6 ]

10x - Nobz (630pt.)
> 3x - Nob (75pt.); Warbike; Power klaw; Slugga; Cybork body;
> 2x - Nob (55pt.); Warbike; Choppa; Slugga; Bosspole; Cybork body;
> 3x - Nob (50pt.); Warbike; Choppa; Slugga; Cybork body;
> 1x - Nob (65pt.); Warbike; Choppa; Slugga; Waaagh! banner; Cybork body;
> 1x - Painboy (80pt.); Urty syringe; Dok's tools; Warbike; Cybork body;

10x - Nobz (630pt.)
> 3x - Nob (75pt.); Warbike; Power klaw; Slugga; Cybork body;
> 2x - Nob (55pt.); Warbike; Choppa; Slugga; Bosspole; Cybork body;
> 3x - Nob (50pt.); Warbike; Choppa; Slugga; Cybork body;
> 1x - Nob (65pt.); Warbike; Choppa; Slugga; Waaagh! banner; Cybork body;
> 1x - Painboy (80pt.); Urty syringe; Dok's tools; Warbike; Cybork body;

11x - Gretchins (40pt.)
> 1x - Runtheard (10pt.); Grabba stikk; Slugga; Squig hound;
> 10x - Gretchins (3pt.); Blasta;

11x - Gretchins (40pt.)
> 1x - Runtheard (10pt.); Grabba stikk; Slugga; Squig hound;
> 10x - Gretchins (3pt.); Blasta;

11x - Gretchins (40pt.)
> 1x - Runtheard (10pt.); Grabba stikk; Slugga; Squig hound;
> 10x - Gretchins (3pt.); Blasta;

11x - Gretchins (40pt.)
> 1x - Runtheard (10pt.); Grabba stikk; Slugga; Squig hound;
> 10x - Gretchins (3pt.); Blasta;

Something like that perhaps.


That may work. I've always enjoyed the Bikers, and they honestly seem to be the ONLY thing that works. The only thing I might change would be to use Wazdakka, so I could take some as Troops, so they could score objectives. Though to save some points, I'd take off 'eavy armor. The bike already gives a 4+ Armor Save +, 4+ cover save, so the Warboss wouldn't really need that much. Especially since every army I've played knock out 3+ armor saves anyway.

Though, I need to convert a Wazdakka...if only I was good at that sort of thing. Might tinker around with my extra Nob bitz, see if I can then tweak a bike somehow.

Anyhow, thank you for the suggestion. I may give mass bikes a second try.


You're probably right about 'eavy armor, I don't have my codex on hand.

Biker nobs are scoring as long as there are warbosses I believe.

Regular ork bikers with wazdakka are not very good IMO. They are more expensive than space marine bikes and worse in literally every respect.

Celesticon 2013 Warhammer 40k Tournament- Best General
Sydney August 2014 Warhammer 40k Tournament-Best General 
   
Made in us
Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend



Maine

I'm not sure if they are or not, since only Troops can score, depending on the mission. And from what I understand, HQ's on their own can't score. And the Nobz will count as Elites still, and also not scoring. :( Though, I do suppose that's what Gretchen are there for. Hide out while the Nobz cause Hell elsewhere.

The reason I'd take Wazdakka is his S8 Dakka Cannon, so he can at least harass any tanks people might throw out. And knowing my playgroup, I'll see tanks or walkers in some manner or another. Especially now that the new Knights are out. Everyone in the damn shop, except myself, ordered one, or two, or three. More stupid OP crap that my Orks can't really do much against.

Though, I spose my main issue is shooty. And I know this edition is shooty, but every game, never fail, I basically lose turn one due to the sheer number of bullcrap. It's just tiresome.

Again, maybe bike spam will change my luck.
   
Made in us
Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren






I use 3 battlewagons in my 2000k point list. And the foundation for all my armies is a bikernob squad lead by a bikerboss.

But using the triple battlewagons has proven really strong, especially when they all have deff rollas. 2 of the wagons are filled with boys and the other wagon has warboss in it ans a squad of nobs with komb-skorchas. So I have two nob squads that are scoring and two 20boy squads.

Fill that in with some lootas, or some stormboyz, or more lootas. If you like the outflanking thing, attach your bikerboss to the deffkoptas and send them in from the side.

DR:80+S++G++MB--IPw40k12#+D++++A++/fWD013R++T(T)DM+

"War is the greatest act of worship, and I perform it gladly for my Lord.... Praise Be"
-Invictus Potens, Black Templar Dreadnought 
   
Made in us
Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend



Maine

 Icculus wrote:
I use 3 battlewagons in my 2000k point list. And the foundation for all my armies is a bikernob squad lead by a bikerboss.

But using the triple battlewagons has proven really strong, especially when they all have deff rollas. 2 of the wagons are filled with boys and the other wagon has warboss in it ans a squad of nobs with komb-skorchas. So I have two nob squads that are scoring and two 20boy squads.

Fill that in with some lootas, or some stormboyz, or more lootas. If you like the outflanking thing, attach your bikerboss to the deffkoptas and send them in from the side.


I actually never thought of doing that with a Bikerboss and Kopters. That could prove potentially devastating...

I've been wanting to round up enough Burna Boyz to do a Deathstar, even if it reeks of cheese. My only barrier is dropping 60 bucks for Wagons. So far, I've been cheap and managed to get my collection for vastly under their monetary value. I've been trying to do so with Wagons, but have been unfortunate. I know by this point I need to buy em new...but...dat cost.
   
Made in au
Major




Fortress of Solitude

Melevolence wrote:
I'm not sure if they are or not, since only Troops can score, depending on the mission. And from what I understand, HQ's on their own can't score. And the Nobz will count as Elites still, and also not scoring. :( Though, I do suppose that's what Gretchen are there for. Hide out while the Nobz cause Hell elsewhere.

The reason I'd take Wazdakka is his S8 Dakka Cannon, so he can at least harass any tanks people might throw out. And knowing my playgroup, I'll see tanks or walkers in some manner or another. Especially now that the new Knights are out. Everyone in the damn shop, except myself, ordered one, or two, or three. More stupid OP crap that my Orks can't really do much against.

Though, I spose my main issue is shooty. And I know this edition is shooty, but every game, never fail, I basically lose turn one due to the sheer number of bullcrap. It's just tiresome.

Again, maybe bike spam will change my luck.


Where did you get the idea that only troops could score? Grey knights can have scoring units in other slots with grand strategy, Pedro Kantor has made sternguard scoring for quite a while, even when they are elites.

HQs can score when attached to a scoring unit.

Also, biker nobs are scoring with a warboss, they may even become troops, not sure.

Celesticon 2013 Warhammer 40k Tournament- Best General
Sydney August 2014 Warhammer 40k Tournament-Best General 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
Melevolence wrote:
I'm not sure if they are or not, since only Troops can score, depending on the mission. And from what I understand, HQ's on their own can't score. And the Nobz will count as Elites still, and also not scoring. :( Though, I do suppose that's what Gretchen are there for. Hide out while the Nobz cause Hell elsewhere.

The reason I'd take Wazdakka is his S8 Dakka Cannon, so he can at least harass any tanks people might throw out. And knowing my playgroup, I'll see tanks or walkers in some manner or another. Especially now that the new Knights are out. Everyone in the damn shop, except myself, ordered one, or two, or three. More stupid OP crap that my Orks can't really do much against.

Though, I spose my main issue is shooty. And I know this edition is shooty, but every game, never fail, I basically lose turn one due to the sheer number of bullcrap. It's just tiresome.

Again, maybe bike spam will change my luck.


Where did you get the idea that only troops could score? Grey knights can have scoring units in other slots with grand strategy, Pedro Kantor has made sternguard scoring for quite a while, even when they are elites.

HQs can score when attached to a scoring unit.

Also, biker nobs are scoring with a warboss, they may even become troops, not sure.


If you take a warboss one nob unit is troops. I.e. A warboss on a bike with bike nobs is a nice ally detachment

Waz is not really that great.
   
Made in us
Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend



Maine

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
Melevolence wrote:
I'm not sure if they are or not, since only Troops can score, depending on the mission. And from what I understand, HQ's on their own can't score. And the Nobz will count as Elites still, and also not scoring. :( Though, I do suppose that's what Gretchen are there for. Hide out while the Nobz cause Hell elsewhere.

The reason I'd take Wazdakka is his S8 Dakka Cannon, so he can at least harass any tanks people might throw out. And knowing my playgroup, I'll see tanks or walkers in some manner or another. Especially now that the new Knights are out. Everyone in the damn shop, except myself, ordered one, or two, or three. More stupid OP crap that my Orks can't really do much against.

Though, I spose my main issue is shooty. And I know this edition is shooty, but every game, never fail, I basically lose turn one due to the sheer number of bullcrap. It's just tiresome.

Again, maybe bike spam will change my luck.


Where did you get the idea that only troops could score? Grey knights can have scoring units in other slots with grand strategy, Pedro Kantor has made sternguard scoring for quite a while, even when they are elites.

HQs can score when attached to a scoring unit.

Also, biker nobs are scoring with a warboss, they may even become troops, not sure.


I'm pretty sure that by default, only Troop choices can control objectives unless a mission specifically states that other unit types can. Example would be Big Guns Never Tire, where Vehicles and Walkers are capable of holding objectives as well as Troops.

And HQ's can score IF attached to a scoring unit. But not by himself is what I was getting at.

Until an new Codex comes out for Orks, only Boyz and Gretchen can score, unless you use HQ's to make Elites/Fast Attacks/ect Troops, then those can score.
   
Made in gb
Roarin' Runtherd




Sorry but everything you just said is wrong if i were you id have a good read through the rulebook and codex, clearly you have to polish your rules knowledge, and thats really the easiest way to get better at the game. Its not all about the list. A poor workman blames his tools.

Ps. Lootas are your friends!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/01 10:14:19


3000 points. 
   
Made in nz
Disguised Speculo





Each Warboss allows you to take one unit of Nobz or MegaNobz as troops. That makes them scoring. This is a fact.

As for your losing streak, try playing at points values that favour Orks. We have units that are very points effective but slots ineffective, which makes us stronger at low points, such as 1000, or at points values that unlock a second force org.

Meanwhile, Tau/Eldar/Chaos are very good at 1850, because their choices are more slot effective than ours and at 1850 they have lots of points whilst we have limited slots.
   
Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre




Olympia, WA

storm boyz and Deffcoptas routinely underperform, from what I have seen. I find them incredibly aesthetically pleasing, so that kinda sucks.

You're in the tactics thread and not a list building one so i assume you want help playing WHAT you have?

If so, and looking at this list, here are a few suggestions to keep or ignore:

1. Fire all guns at troops, early and often. Even if that's not whats killing you. Use the Deffkoptas as second unit of lootas with KFF nearby and fire both until the troop unit is dead. Then do it again. Killing troop choices in objective missions is really important as strategies go. it forces the game to secondary objectives AT WORST. Your Koptas and Lootas do a good job of ganking First blood and your army as a whole does a great job of not giving it up. if you hide the trukks round 1. So

2. Hide the trukks. they are pretty zippy and need not be on the board IMMEDIATELY. After the enemy has been softened a bit it will be an easier go for them. What was an impossible rain of fire in the early rounds for those trukks starts to slow down and allow for more transport movement later. You want First blood if you are going to pursue a strategy of troop killing. This forces the enemy to forge forth more into your threat zone with the dangerous units in hopes of contesting while their diminishing troops must concentrate on staying alive and holding the few they can reach.

3. The Nobz should use cover to get to a good holding position against shooting armeis. they simply need to BE a threat. Actually going forward and killing with them is cool but EXPENSIVE in losses. sometimes just DENYING the enemy an area and biding ones time can be very valuable.

4. Burna boyz can REALLY even the odds for the Boyz so their assaults can be effective. Trukk sized units are NOT effective against MEQ enemies. You need to fight the two units in TANDEM with each other, Burnaz and normal boyz. Treat them like two parts of the same unit and travel with them that way.

5. The KillaKanz are your red herring in this list. While they help the lootas in their mission, lets be honest: they will never be a focal point of an offensive with that armor. eldar Wave Serpents tear such things to ribbons. BUT... they are good as red herrings to draw fire with and so being super aggressive, moving and running them whenever possible and forcing the issue is a great idea. I think sacrificing their shooting for movement will sometimes be useful in order to keeop the ACTUAL fire bases intact longer. Some enemies wont force you to do that but dont be afraid NOT to take the shot with Killer Kanz.

6. Stormboyz are great for getting line breaker. It may or may not be advisable to have them get engaged on the round they show up. Thats situational. But if youre keeping your eye on the ball (secondary objectives) then it may be wise to simple hide them for a round and make the enemy do things it doesn't want to or block off certain avenues you dont want them to have for a round and THEN pounce. They stay on the board longer, require more rounds of attention and are ultimately not there to do more than get you a secondary and maybe take out an isolated Dev squad or something. They are fast enough that they dont NEED to land anywhere near danger to be valuable to you. So think about them FIRST as a Linebreaker and SECOND as a hammer.

I beleive the movement phase is where lots of games are won.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/01 18:26:19


Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

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Made in nz
Disguised Speculo





I beleive the movement phase is where lots of games are won.


I want to believe this, but currently it looks to me that the dice rolling phase is where its at.

Just to add to some of the points above and help polish this turn lol

re. #1; I disagree with "always shoot the troops". Instead, evaluate high output low durability sources of enemy firepower as viable targets as well. It can be worth doing a bit less damage to their troops in exchange for taking considerably less damage to yours!

However, as Orks, we can afford more troop damage than anyone else due to having arguably the best troops in the game.

The core tenant here of "kill the troops to win the game" is definitely the right way to go about it though.

What I do disagree with is pursuing a first blood strategy with Orks. Literally every army in the game save daemons is better at this than we are, both with regards to inflicting first blood and retaining it. If you try to play on the enemies terms your not gonna do well. Instead, build a list that *can* go the first blood route if the opportunity presents itself - namely if you get first turn and you know your opponent has something you can kill easily.

re. #4; I don't know about evening the odds honestly. Whatever boyz will kill, burnas will absolutely savage. Stuff we can struggle with is often things like a daemon prince, against which burnas are garbage. The main thing to keep in mind with Burnas is honestly to forget that they have the option of a power weapon. That will just lure you into throwing them into assaults where either overwatch or terrible INT will get them mowed down.

re. #6; Use a solo deffkopta for line breaker. Better in every way than Stormboyz for this purpose. Usually I don't recommend rokkits but it could serve a double purpose of linebreaker and distraction by popping in and hiding behind a building to threaten rear armour and stuff.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/01 21:20:28


 
   
Made in us
Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend



Maine

gork and possibly mork wrote:
Sorry but everything you just said is wrong if i were you id have a good read through the rulebook and codex, clearly you have to polish your rules knowledge, and thats really the easiest way to get better at the game. Its not all about the list. A poor workman blames his tools.

Ps. Lootas are your friends!


Actually, my mini rule book states, I believe on page 123, that scoring units are usually Troops, unless a scenario says otherwise, such as big gunz never tire.

The only other way is if you use an HQ to make non Troop units into Troop Choices (Wazdakka making Bikes troops, or Warboss making Nobz troops)

@ Jancoran and Dakkamite

I like this. I like it a lot. Honestly, I think my biggest problem is I try too hard to kill stuff. I want to DO something, not sit around and just hide while Tau jump infantry leap in, kill a lot, then leap away right after shooting. I know Orks have the best chance at objective holding. One instance was a game I was close to winning merely because I had several squads of Gretchen who were hunkered behind cover near objectives, but couldn't be shot off because there was no line of sight to them, since they were too small.

I guess to play Orks, you almost NEED to play missions. If you play a game of who kills the most, Orks will typically get mopped up. Though, I suppose if I could obtain a decent more Lootas, I'd be in a whole different ball park. Those S7 shots really destroy stuff.
   
Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre




Olympia, WA

Melevolence wrote:
gork and possibly mork wrote:
Sorry but everything you just said is wrong if i were you id have a good read through the rulebook and codex, clearly you have to polish your rules knowledge, and thats really the easiest way to get better at the game. Its not all about the list. A poor workman blames his tools.

Ps. Lootas are your friends!


Actually, my mini rule book states, I believe on page 123, that scoring units are usually Troops, unless a scenario says otherwise, such as big gunz never tire.

The only other way is if you use an HQ to make non Troop units into Troop Choices (Wazdakka making Bikes troops, or Warboss making Nobz troops)

@ Jancoran and Dakkamite

I like this. I like it a lot. Honestly, I think my biggest problem is I try too hard to kill stuff. I want to DO something, not sit around and just hide while Tau jump infantry leap in, kill a lot, then leap away right after shooting. I know Orks have the best chance at objective holding. One instance was a game I was close to winning merely because I had several squads of Gretchen who were hunkered behind cover near objectives, but couldn't be shot off because there was no line of sight to them, since they were too small.

I guess to play Orks, you almost NEED to play missions. If you play a game of who kills the most, Orks will typically get mopped up. Though, I suppose if I could obtain a decent more Lootas, I'd be in a whole different ball park. Those S7 shots really destroy stuff.


Yup. Two loota squads is a really strong play. its not going to win games on its own but it puts almost every kind of threat there is on notice.

Tactics is where its at. I focus so much more on learning to THINK through the problem to its logical or likely conclusion and anticipating the enemy than I do with List building. I feel that if your core understanding of the game is good, very few people can beat you if you even have a DECENT force. And the game certainly is a lot more fun when you are free to use a greater variety of units than other people can. You "break the meta" a little bit too because your opponents might have an answer for killing you (just roll dice!) but its frustrating when your strategy takes the control of the game away from them.

Take the long view and play the position game. Cant kill what you cant target. Understanding that EARLY on, robbing the enemy of kills and LATER on bringing the pain instead of trying tocause a ton of pain up front and early (typical gunline thinking) is a sure way to make the enemy dfo things it wouldnt do normally.

Relying on enemies to make a mistake is a bad idea, but encouraging it is a very good idea. =)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/02 05:11:01


Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
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Major




Fortress of Solitude

Melevolence wrote:
gork and possibly mork wrote:
Sorry but everything you just said is wrong if i were you id have a good read through the rulebook and codex, clearly you have to polish your rules knowledge, and thats really the easiest way to get better at the game. Its not all about the list. A poor workman blames his tools.

Ps. Lootas are your friends!


Actually, my mini rule book states, I believe on page 123, that scoring units are usually Troops, unless a scenario says otherwise, such as big gunz never tire.


Key Word: Usually.

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!!Goffik Rocker!!






Bassically, there are 2 types of lists that still work great in most cases. Nob bikers and battlewagon spam. Since you got no wagonz and lots of bikes - make a multiple nob-biker list. You should have no problems with that, really.

2 bikerbosses [cybork, pk], 2 units of 5 nobz+painboy [cyborks, bp, 1 pk, probably grot orderly for a pb] - 1000 pts total

You'll need someone to back them up and provide scoring. Shootaboyz are your best bet. 2-3 squads of 20 shootaboyz with bigshootas without nobz. Probably, 2x20 and 1x24+nob but it's not necesery cause foorslogging pk nobz are a waste.
It won't hurt if you get a truck or two instead of footslogas - they're not that bad when you have multiple nob bikers.

Besides, u'll definetely need long-range support. If you don't have or don't want to use allies - go for lobbas and lootas. However, i've found out that lootas are outperformed by broadsides or leman russes. Lobbas are great however. You can scratch-build them. Not hard to do but u'll need grot models.

Sometimes koptas in 1 or 2 squads of ones might be useful either. They're gona be overwatch-eaters and act as a nice distraction but are not mandatory by no means.

This army type proved being good. I even manage to win taudar from time to time. Remember that to win you got to play better than your opponent cause there's a number of armies that can make a ton of tactical mistakes and still win. Or can just stand and shoot ignoring everything. Orkses ain't like this Ork's codex is old and most units except for battlewagonz and bosses are overpriced for what they do. We don't have many new fancy perks and auto-win-buttons. But it's still possible to pull a win even vs power-lists. For example, battlewagon spam is really good vs grav-spam and riptide-spam. And it shines when you meet some tripple-baledrake list. However, it's gona be hard to win tac eldar list with pure bw spam. While nob bikers will have real chances there.

Or you could play stronghold assault and make a use of void-shields which will completely change everything and make a truck-limit list shine once again like in the good old dayz

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/03/03 07:01:38


 
   
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Melevolence wrote:
gork and possibly mork wrote:
Sorry but everything you just said is wrong if i were you id have a good read through the rulebook and codex, clearly you have to polish your rules knowledge, and thats really the easiest way to get better at the game. Its not all about the list. A poor workman blames his tools.

Ps. Lootas are your friends!


Actually, my mini rule book states, I believe on page 123, that scoring units are usually Troops, unless a scenario says otherwise, such as big gunz never tire.

The only other way is if you use an HQ to make non Troop units into Troop Choices (Wazdakka making Bikes troops, or Warboss making Nobz troops)

I guess to play Orks, you almost NEED to play missions. If you play a game of who kills the most, Orks will typically get mopped up. Though, I suppose if I could obtain a decent more Lootas, I'd be in a whole different ball park. Those S7 shots really destroy stuff.


Yes, using your HQ to make non troops scoring was exactly the point. which is why my list with two warbosses has 4 scoring units. 2 nob squads and 2 boys squads.

And in regard to kill point missions, I would say that orks can still win. Running a trukk rush army though will probably lose since the trukks all count as a unit and are as strong as paper. But Orks can still be very killy. I know you are trying to play on a budget, but man oh man do those battlewagons get their money worth. I actually got my 3 wagons from the swap shop here on dakka. good deal, great people. He even threw in some warbuggies and deffkoptas.

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Oceanic

You definitely have the right toys

Ork Nobz on bikes with a Warboss on bike tear the ass out of opponents. But you need some other stuff to get his attention.
I hate my deffdread, it sucks but you know, it's a bullet magnet. At 100 points it sometimes get my opponents attention and let's my other units get down range a little easier.
Use cover as much as possible. Some people say big Mek with KFF but I like my SAG, rarely do you get the bad double numbers, most of the time it's just a gakky scatter.

Also, have your 30 boys with no nob leader. He's too expensive to have some chump chaos champ whoop him.

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Meganobz are just too cool for school.

Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

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Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend



Maine

I like the idea of Battle Wagons as many have suggested thus far, which is nice. I'm trying to find perhaps a budget way to make my own. I've found a few cheap tank models at local stores and wonder if I can make one up by chopping up a few places here and there to give the tank a 'bed', then apply the proper weapon bits and Orkify it.

I do have one Warboss on a bike, though I didn't make it, a friend did. I wonder if I can do the same. I've got an extra AoBR Warboss laying around that isn't getting much use.

I do want some Meganobz...I own two, but can't do anything with them until I get a third. I might pick up four of them and get it over with, so I at least have a solid foot solider backbone (or Trukk missile them).

I finished up doing some Kustom Burna Boyz, taking Burna bits I had, and using old AoBR Boyz, cutting off their static choppa arm, filing it down, allowing me to glue the flamer arm onto them. They look a little off, since the guns and straps dont line up very well, but I don't care. They work the same :3
   
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For some meganobs, check our Kromlech. They have some great detailed meganobs and the price for 3 of them is pretty reasonable.

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"War is the greatest act of worship, and I perform it gladly for my Lord.... Praise Be"
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Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre




Olympia, WA

Cool ,are they smaller? bigger?

Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

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Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren






Umm, they are actually a little bit bigger. about the size of ghazzy

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"War is the greatest act of worship, and I perform it gladly for my Lord.... Praise Be"
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Flashy Flashgitz






NJ

I usually run 5 in a battlewagon with a kff mek, but 3 in a trukk is very good too. Scratchbuild them! I made all of mine out of the AoBR Nobs, it was a hell of a lot cheaper than the real models, still is perfectly legal in a tournament/gw (except you need med bases), and adds flavor to your army. Just search dakka for inspiration, it's surprisingly easy to do!

   
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Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre




Olympia, WA

 Icculus wrote:
Umm, they are actually a little bit bigger. about the size of ghazzy


I guess sicne they are Nobz its cool if they are too big.

Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

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Regular Dakkanaut




Times have changed.

Forget Nobs,Bikers,mass horde...

Buy Stompa....add in a mob or two maybe a few Dreads and Dakka Jets then watch them cry.

   
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Disguised Speculo





Or you could play stronghold assault and make a use of void-shields which will completely change everything and make a truck-limit list shine once again like in the good old dayz


This. I clued onto Void + Trukks way back when SA came out, glad to see you agree with the idea

The other thing is to make sure there is Line of Sight Blocking Terrain on the board. Not swiss cheese ruins and 'forests' of 2-3 trees, actual honest to god sight blocking, centrally placed and big enough to hide things behind.
   
Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre




Olympia, WA

void shields wont make a 12 man mob better at assaulting though unfortunately.

Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

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