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I've decided to start an imperial guard army. funds are a bit limited, but I was able to get the cadian battleforce and a squad of kasrkin. Will I be able to play with these, for the time being?

You could play about 500pts max with that force, maybe 750 if you really pushed it, but I wouldn't recommend it. Iif you make the infantry squads vets and take the full allotment of Stormtroopers (which are what Kasrkin essentially are) You'll be able to play a little bit higher games, but you'll have a hard time with that few guardsmen.

You could play Kill Team fairly easily though, so try that. It's a fun system and you can make a good IG force with it using the models you have easily. Plus that lets you take your time with your models and paint them up nice, rather than rushing them in an attempt to have something ready for tabletop right off the bat.

Also, don't glue the weapons to the tripods for the heavy weapon squads. That way you can swap around lascannons, autocannons, and heavy bolters at will. You can also magnetize the sentinel so the weapons are easily swappable. Since you don't have a lot of models yet, you'll be leaning on your heavy weapons quite a bit. If you need more special weapons like meltas and plasma, you can direct order them through Games Workshop.

It's possible to make a legal, if small, army with those models - Company Command Squad for HQ, two veteran squads for troops, a few upgrade weapons, a sentinel and stormtroopers. Ends up somewhere in the neighborhood of 400 points. Things get a bit more interesting with two or three battleforces since then you can set up infantry platoons, but of course you should buy and build at whatever pace suits you.

Implied second question: Do you want to? No starting IG player will go badly wrong buying a command squad and twenty guardsmen. If you want (or think you might want at some future time) to have heavy weapons then you might as well get the battle force. Even if you don't want the sentinel you end up something like a dollar cheaper (US) than if you'd bought the infantry boxes separately.

I've never used stormtroopers or grenadiers so I'm not commenting on them.

stormtroopers rock, i use them in nearly every game, either just a 5 man squad with 2 meltas to drop in and kill a vehicle, or full 10 with 2 plasma guns to take out Meq

I play guard, i love guard, but they are expensive

As a guy who started with guard, quit for the price, went to tau and has started again i can say this.

1. You want more than two squads of men. (I'm on 4 and a HWT)

2. I swear the best tank is the transport, get this on ebay.

3. Stormtroopers are great. Again, ebay them, they do wonders for me.

4. Once you have gotten use to the army and enjoy them, save up for a valk/vendetta, these are really imposing and will mess with the enemys head.

5. Get some long range big guns, i went for a basilisk, now i'm picking up mortors and lascannons for my themed army.

6. Enjoy and discover more! Thats what i'm doing! I find nothing you buy is wasted in money or points due to guards "just more firepower" theme. I plan to get a hellhound or a deathstrike just for the looks.

Yeah, you should be fine for small games, especially with a little bit of proxying (counting that flamer and grenade launcher stormtrooper as two plasma gun stormtroopers, for example).

If you want to get a more proper survey of how guard can play, then the next purchases I'd recommend would be either a couple of chimeras (so you can run a pair of mechvet squads), or a couple boxes of infantry (so you can run a pair of infantry platoons). Some more special and heavy weapons wouldn't hurt either.

Once you figure out what troops choice you like better, it will make knowing what support units to branch out into a little easier.

What helped me also when i started was using tau allies, a battlesuit, 6 fire warriors and a hammerhead REALLY help guard. Plus you then have two armies!

A word of warning about the stormtroopers, they do not work for everyone. My advice would be to thoroughly playtest them with proxied guardsmen before buying the models, as I bought some when I first started IG, and they sat on the shelf for 3 years getting no use at all. The models are very cool though.

To give you an idea of what you may want to consider while building your first list and thus guiding your purchases, here is a general IG power-curve (discounting forgeworld, though you should definitely look into them)

Top Tier Units:
-Vendetta
-Manticore
-Colossus
-Medusas
-Leman Russ Executioners

Good Units:
-Plasma/Melta Veterans
-Infantry Squad Blob with Plasma guns and Lascannons
-Chimeras
-Basilisks
-Leman Russ Vanquishers (Can perform great depending on the rest of your list)
-Leman Russ Punishers
-Leman Russ Demolishers
-Company Command Squad
-4x Flamer Platoon Command Squad

Bad (Don't take) Units:
-Penal Legion
-Primaris Psyker
-Psyker Battle Squad
-Sentinels
-Griffon
-Deathstrike
-Hydra
-Special Weapon Squads


The rest of the stuff is kindof in between, and is more a question of "Does this fit into my list?"

-TheCaptain

The problem with the IG battalion is that most people will not want to play games smaller then 500-750pts .Specialy when the IG one tries to use a lemman russ , which a lot of armies won't have an anwser for .

As first buy I would get 4-5 blisters of karskins with special weapons and use them as IG veterans , then bought two vendettas and two chimeras and a second Lemman Russ.

Storm Shadow,

Firstly, and I mean no disrespect to him, TheCaptain's list is a little skewed and incorrect.

For instance: Griffon Mortars are, in a word, amazing. They're very accurate and put a ludicrous amount of wounds on a target. Even MEQ units typically lose three or four models due to wound saturation (I run a pair of them, which is in my opinion ideal for their points cost) typically netting 8 to 12 wounds with the pair of templates overlapping. The re-roll scatter is incredibly powerful.

Secondly, Psyker battle squads are also very useful and cheap for what they bring to the table. If you want to effectively take a unit out of the fight, use the weaken resolve power on it (provided it's not stubborn or fearless) and then drop the Griffon mortars on them. Provided you kill just one model, that squad is pinned for the next round barring your opponent doesn't drop snake eyes on their pinning check.

So, that said, look at the codex we have and try to hold off buying tmuch right now as the new guard codex is coming in April. We won't know what it has in store.

Don't listen to others, look at the codex and gauge a unit's value and strength on it's own merits. Every time I see someone bringing the larger artillery across the table from me, I smile, as my less expensive Griffons typically can destroy or cripple them in a single volley thanks to the accurate bombardment rule. The moral of the story is, your mileage may vary, so see what *YOU* like and don't put too much stock in others opinions.

That's all I've got. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Red__Thirst wrote:Griffon Mortars are, in a word, amazing. They're very accurate and put a ludicrous amount of wounds on a target. Even MEQ units typically lose three or four models due to wound saturation

I wish I had your opponents.

Mine have this nasty tendency to displace and use multi-level cover, which reduces what damage pieces like the griffon can do in a hurry.

Makumba wrote:The problem with the IG battalion is that most people will not want to play games smaller then 500-750pts .Specialy when the IG one tries to use a lemman russ , which a lot of armies won't have an anwser for

There is a slowly growing movement towards wanting to play lower points value games.

Plus, it's always been rude to insist on playing higher points games than your opponent can comfortably field.

Ailaros, have you tried mixing Griffons with Basilisks in the same squadron?

 Ailaros wrote:

I wish I had your opponents.

Mine have this nasty tendency to displace and use multi-level cover, which reduces what damage pieces like the griffon can do in a hurry

Then perhaps use less multi-level terrain/cover on occasion? Seems that's your main issue. A pair of Griffons, for the points you pay, will MURDER the vast majority of infantry. Two of them is the same points cost as a single Leman Russ, coupled with the accurate bombardment rule, they pick up way more models on average than my Leman Russ MBT. They are consistently my MVP's most every game as far as the amount of damage they do. (My opponents have learned to target them early, which is good, as it leaves my other tanks in my force relatively unscathed).

Displacing happens, hell I do it regularly. That shouldn't change the effectiveness of the weapon though (your opponent is going to know you're bringing blasts and space appropriately most of the time).

Your mileage may vary, of course. I swear by my Griffons though. All the artillery tanks have a place in the codex, but point-per-effectiveness it's difficult to match a Griffon in my book.

Just my thoughts on that end. Take it easy.

-RT-

 Red__Thirst wrote:

Then perhaps use less multi-level terrain/cover on occasion? Seems that's your main issue. A pair of Griffons, for the points you pay, will MURDER the vast majority of infantry. Two of them is the same points cost as a single Leman Russ, coupled with the accurate bombardment rule, they pick up way more models on average than my Leman Russ MBT. They are consistently my MVP's most every game as far as the amount of damage they do. (My opponents have learned to target them early, which is good, as it leaves my other tanks in my force relatively unscathed).

Displacing happens, hell I do it regularly. That shouldn't change the effectiveness of the weapon though (your opponent is going to know you're bringing blasts and space appropriately most of the time).

Your mileage may vary, of course. I swear by my Griffons though. All the artillery tanks have a place in the codex, but point-per-effectiveness it's difficult to match a Griffon in my book.

To pull a counterpoint of mine from another thread that I think applies here as well;

 TheCaptain wrote:

As a counterpoint to the Griffon, though it's accurate, it's wounding-capabilities are relegated pretty much to massed infantry with armor below MEQ out in the open. A very niche target that you aren't likely to see, what with the abundance of cover. Colossi, however, cost about the same as two griffons, include the wounding on 2's against t4 and below, as well as Ignoring cover (which is huge in todays meta) and ignoring all common infantry Armor-saves. You sacrifice a little accuracy to gain a huge boost in damage with the Colossus.

As you've said, there is no questioning that two accurate large blasts will give you better coverage than one, and two Griffons will indeed put down wounds, but its major problem is that it allows so many saves. 4+ or worse armor is almost always going to be in cover, and 3+ armor is going to save 2/3 of the wounds your griffons put down anyways.

welcome to the guard,

Firstly I for your original question

With your starting force you could field.


HQ squad-with heavy weapon
Elites storm troopers squad
Troops 2 vet squads with heavy weapons
Fast attack sentinel

As to what to field after that,,,,honestly I would rather ignore most advice and field what feels right/works for you.Ask yourself what type of force you want,Is there a theme you are after. Because honestly what rocks for one player might suck for another. Me for example,I love rough riders,griffons and special weapons squads,but other players will say they suck.

As to growing your force for less cash,,,places like bartertown are a good place to look.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Ailaros, have you tried mixing Griffons with Basilisks in the same squadron?

I don't think this works how you think it works. Because last I checked, the Basilisk template has to be set BESIDE the griffon template, not on top of it, if you want to use the reroll. I could be wrong, I haven't played a proper game of 40k in a year.


To OP, if you're not playing in a GW store, you can always go 3rd party and get really cool looking models on the cheap to expand your army.vFor example, here's something I found while doing some research if you're into highland guard type stuff

http://www.victrixlimited.com/online_shop/product_info.php?cPath=32_33&products_id=55

That's 60 minis for roughly 30 bucks, and they look really good too. 2 boxes would allow you to field far more guardsmen than most people have common sense. You could make them look more sci fi using Victoria lamb bits.

I've conveniently linked her highland guard type bits. Even though they cost a bit, you could easily get a bag of a 100 bases, a bunch of lasguns, and some special weapons, and still pay far less than if you had gone straight GW http://victoriaminiatures.highwire.com/products/highland-guard?pagesize=12

And that's just scratching the tip of the iceberg, there are all sorts of incredible models out there that will make excellent Guardsmen models if you're willing to convert. You can still use the Cadians and Kasrkins you bought as well. The Cadians will make a good source for vets, and the Kasrkins of course will make great stormtroopers. Sentinels are the same regardless of army, and you can just stick your highland guard minis on the heavy weapons so they could be used in your platoon squads since normally you don't want your vets lugging around a heavy weapon they'll barely use.

Not trying to say Cadians are bad or anything, just trying to give you some options if money is an issue.

Red__Thirst wrote:Displacing happens, hell I do it regularly. That shouldn't change the effectiveness of the weapon though

What?

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Ailaros, have you tried mixing Griffons with Basilisks in the same squadron?

I don't think this works how you think it works. Because last I checked, the Basilisk template has to be set BESIDE the griffon template, not on top of it, if you want to use the reroll. I could be wrong, I haven't played a proper game of 40k in a year.

Yeah, someone did the math on this like a year ago. The conclusion was that it narrowed the band of damage you can do relative to just taking the piece separate (less chance of a complete whiff, but less chance of doing ultradamage), but that it didn't do anything to the average number of hits.

If you were already bringing a griffon and a basilisk, and needed an extra HS slot to get opened up, you won't hurt yourself by squadding the two, but squadding the two on purpose to help each other, well... doesn't.

Valks on Valk on Valks. Or more accurately, Vendettas, will really help. Vendetta and Vets, the things they can do together are outrageously great and also a heap of fun.

The ability to zoom about (with Vector Dancer, no less!) is a really big deal. They can bring AT where it is needed in a hurry and are really pretty resilient for an AV12 vehicle. The Extra Armour stock is also a boon.

But the big part (and the best part, IMO) is having a way to get Vets where they need to be. So, so good.

thanks for the informative replies, everyone.

i most likely will be building a gaming table in my house, so house rules, well, rule.

i'm very tempted to take an armored sentinel w/ plasma cannon, would it be worth taking another w/ the same setup down the road?

plan on creating a regiment of cadian's known as the "722nd Hurricanes". they like to hit their enemies hard and fast.

things i tend to like:

-plasma weaponry
-sentinels
-storm troopers
-lots of infantry
-leman russ punisher

 Storm Shadow wrote:
thanks for the informative replies, everyone.

i most likely will be building a gaming table in my house, so house rules, well, rule.

i'm very tempted to take an armored sentinel w/ plasma cannon, would it be worth taking another w/ the same setup down the road?

plan on creating a regiment of cadian's known as the "722nd Hurricanes". they like to hit their enemies hard and fast.

things i tend to like:

-plasma weaponry
-sentinels
-storm troopers
-lots of infantry
-leman russ punisher

I'll be honest, Plasma sentinels are pretty expensive for what you get, especially since they can blow themselves up, but if you magnetize them it's not a big deal. As for the other stuff, you should be able to do ok as long as your friends aren't bringing something stupid like 3 riptides or an army of knights.

It doesn't have the be knights or riptides , a normal sm army would blow something like that skyhigh . str3 las guns don't do much to t5 bikers specialy when they have a +3inv IWND tank HQ inside.

Staying away from storm troopers is the best way to go when playing IG . The model still have their uses , karskin look very good as vets. All my vets are karskin models.

so i should run 2 scout sentinels?

Yeah, for only 10 points more than three plasma cannon armored sentinels, you can get a lascannon/multimelta executioner. Same number of plasma shots, but no overheats, and a free lascannon and multimeltas (so, like, double the firepower), and on an AV14 frame.

Armored sentinels are iffy to begin with, but those plasma cannon armored sentinels are tough to justify (power-wise, at least).

best set up for scout sentinel? autocannon?

Lascannon. Not too many more points for a weapon that actually damages everything, rather than sometimes damaging some things.

 Ailaros wrote:
Lascannon. Not too many more points for a weapon that actually damages everything, rather than sometimes damaging some things.

I second this. If you're planning on running Sentinels, Scout Sentinels (A squadron of them are optimal) outflanking with Lascannons are the most effective way to go.

 Storm Shadow wrote:
best set up for scout sentinel? autocannon?

I was partial to autocannons because mine couldn't hit the broadside of a barn, but I would probably go with lascannon if I was starting over.

Remember, sentinels are easy to magnetize, which would let you swap weapons around at will and see what works best for you. Make sure you use two though. I made the mistake of only using one and my Sentinel always had a problem of keeping its weapon up to bear.

I'm partial to HK missles on my scout sentinels. I also cant hit the broad side of a barn and one more chance to shoot something is good in my book.

 Sparkadia wrote:
Valks on Valk on Valks. Or more accurately, Vendettas, will really help. Vendetta and Vets, the things they can do together are outrageously great and also a heap of fun.

The ability to zoom about (with Vector Dancer, no less!) is a really big deal. They can bring AT where it is needed in a hurry and are really pretty resilient for an AV12 vehicle. The Extra Armour stock is also a boon.

But the big part (and the best part, IMO) is having a way to get Vets where they need to be. So, so good.

Valkyries and Vendettas don't have Vector Dancer, only the Vulture has Vector Dancer.