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Today we started our unit on disenfranchised poor. And Damnit chat is rubbing off on me. The entire time when it was mentioned that low or not skilled jobs where not enough to help people live, I said "Well, why should they, Why should someone get a living with no skilled Labor" I ticked alot of people off with that, that our soceity isnt how hard you work, but the value and scarcity of your skill. Then when they said Mcdonals could afford it I said it was corporate Mcdonalds they are thinking, not the francises owned individually. I would have never have said this a year ago, But now I am, thanks dakka
Never go republican in a California Sociology class. And never say the phrase "Well, they should get better skills"

“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”

- John Steinbeck

 Ouze wrote:
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”

- John Steinbeck

It's painfully sad because it's true.

You didn't do enough victim blaming and talking about how they should have the decency to pick themselves up by their own bootstraps, but other than that... You did okay

University sociology classes are the only place where you can guarantee an argument will break out, and that everyone in that argument will be wrong.

 sebster wrote:
University sociology classes are the only place where you can guarantee an argument will break out, and that everyone in that argument will be wrong.

Its kinda funny though, if you observe, higher level sociology teachers are alot less political then their students, mostly focusing on facts and data, my proff said this "One day data will prove you wrong, and it will be the greatest feeling ever, to be wrong, because it frees you to think more"

I was hoping the rubbing off you were mentioning would have been grammatical

Having seen half the posts on this site, I'm not sure that would be a good thing.

Also, you forgot punctuation there, Cincy.

The emoticon IS my punctuation.

 sebster wrote:
University sociology classes are the only place where you can guarantee an argument will break out, and that everyone in that argument will be wrong.

I want that on a bumper sticker.

Just be careful with what you argue. A lot of those teachers are very set in their liberal ways. They are much more happy for you to stroke their ego and fall in line than to have to read a paper written by you that disagrees with their own views.

This is just personal experience, but from what i've seen your view on the subject will help determine your grade more than the quality of your work.

 Rotary wrote:
Just be careful with what you argue. A lot of those teachers are very set in their liberal ways. They are much more happy for you to stroke their ego and fall in line than to have to read a paper written by you that disagrees with their own views.

That is my personal experiance, but you just have to read the teacher. I recently proved this teacher wrng about things, first thing she does it look it up and found out I was right. She was surpised and congratulated me. It just depends, the teacher was more of an arbiter among the students, I was talking to the students and the teacher agreed with me alot today.

It has rubbed off on me too. Last weekend I was arguing with someone that gun control is a waste of time. This from a person who has never held or fired a gun in his life, and only really seen them on TV and in museums. (Though part of that is also not wanting to agree with Piers Morgan).

I've realized on dakka, that a lot of people here aren't going to automatically agree with me on matters of politics, as I lean (generally) more left than most. But it is good to talk to people who hold different views. It has taught me not to take things that I thought were obvious for granted.

Statements like "Poor people don't deserve to starve to death" (not a real example) would have seemed self evident to me before. But when you have to argue something like that, against a more dog-eat-dog philosophy, it can actually be very challenging. Especially when incidental things like typos, or points poorly articulated, can quickly be taken out of context and used to undermine an otherwise sound position.

It is easy to get lazy in your arguments when you are always surrounded by people who agree with you. I like reading and joining in with the discussions here. Sometimes I make points well and get exalted. Other times I might say something hasty and get called an idiot by everyone. And then there are times when people actually make me think and change my mind about some issues, which is a good feeling, and its important to have that.

I feel so proud right now.

 Rotary wrote:
Just be careful with what you argue. A lot of those teachers are very set in their liberal ways. They are much more happy for you to stroke their ego and fall in line than to have to read a paper written by you that disagrees with their own views.

This is just personal experience, but from what i've seen your view on the subject will help determine your grade more than the quality of your work.

For what it's worth, this has NEVER been my experience. I almost universally found my professors to be more interested in a cogent, succinct argument than in fawning sycophants. I also started--in college--to take mildly humorous or bizarre stances in order to present my professor with something he/she hadn't read a thousand thousand times before, which seemed to pay off fairly well.

My professors varied a lot. The mathematics ones were the only ones I think I could stereotype. No none sense you're here to learn types.

My Anthropology professor could be a little loony though (in a bad war). We were talking about the various societal structures in human history and he somehow went off on a tangent about gay marriage for fifteen minutes. Like wow did he go off on a tangent. Pretty much everyone in the class whether they agreed with him or not were like "can we go back to what the class is about now?"

My favorite was my crazy Western Civ's history professor freshman year though. He was awesome. Showed up late on the first day of class by 20 minutes and just sat down, took off his glass. "Ladies and gentlemen. There are 641 commandments in the Bible. One of them is do not take your teacher's designated parking space."

Second favorite was my Middle Eastern history prof. He was looney in a good way. "If any of you are looking for employment after getting your degree, I understand that Awn Shawkat Al-Khasawneh is looking to hire more thugs!" Said with complete enthusiasm.

 Jimsolo wrote:

 Rotary wrote:
Just be careful with what you argue. A lot of those teachers are very set in their liberal ways. They are much more happy for you to stroke their ego and fall in line than to have to read a paper written by you that disagrees with their own views.

This is just personal experience, but from what i've seen your view on the subject will help determine your grade more than the quality of your work.

For what it's worth, this has NEVER been my experience. I almost universally found my professors to be more interested in a cogent, succinct argument than in fawning sycophants. I also started--in college--to take mildly humorous or bizarre stances in order to present my professor with something he/she hadn't read a thousand thousand times before, which seemed to pay off fairly well.

Very first class I took a few years ago, the very first assignment they handed to me was a loaded one, that was obviously skewed towards a liberally sympathetic situation.

I was very leery about it, but I attacked the premise full on, and awaited my F. Pleasantly surprised to get an A on it.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Today we started our unit on disenfranchised poor. And Damnit chat is rubbing off on me. The entire time when it was mentioned that low or not skilled jobs where not enough to help people live, I said "Well, why should they, Why should someone get a living with no skilled Labor" I ticked alot of people off with that, that our soceity isnt how hard you work, but the value and scarcity of your skill. Then when they said Mcdonals could afford it I said it was corporate Mcdonalds they are thinking, not the francises owned individually. I would have never have said this a year ago, But now I am, thanks dakka
Never go republican in a California Sociology class. And never say the phrase "Well, they should get better skills"

Keep up the bad work! There are many sources for your arguments. If you want original source material go to John Locke, Adam Smith, and Keynes (yes Keynes read his actual theory not the abomination currently used). Also for urrent smarmy attitude watch CNBC in the morning.

Be prepared to be treated harshly and get C's by your hippy commie teacher. Teachers hate freedom almost as much as the French. Thats why teachers love cats. Cats are evil, not like dogs who are good. Dogs love freedom. And bacon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rotary wrote:
Just be careful with what you argue. A lot of those teachers are very set in their liberal ways. They are much more happy for you to stroke their ego and fall in line than to have to read a paper written by you that disagrees with their own views.

This is just personal experience, but from what i've seen your view on the subject will help determine your grade more than the quality of your work.

All jokes aside this is seriously correct. It will be even worse in college. I advised my boy never to actually disagree with a professor. Fortunately he got all his hippy tree hugger classes out via qualifying out, online courses, or the local community college during the summer and is now in real classes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 djones520 wrote:
I feel so proud right now.

All we can do is raise 'em up right and then send 'em off into the world.

 Rotary wrote:
Just be careful with what you argue. A lot of those teachers are very set in their liberal ways. They are much more happy for you to stroke their ego and fall in line than to have to read a paper written by you that disagrees with their own views.

This is just personal experience, but from what i've seen your view on the subject will help determine your grade more than the quality of your work.

Yes, beware of the educated, they are the enemies of your way of thinking.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Rotary wrote:
Just be careful with what you argue. A lot of those teachers are very set in their liberal ways. They are much more happy for you to stroke their ego and fall in line than to have to read a paper written by you that disagrees with their own views.

This is just personal experience, but from what i've seen your view on the subject will help determine your grade more than the quality of your work.

Yes, beware of the educated, they are the enemies of your way of thinking.

I think you'll find your best corporate raiders and evilz hedge fund managerz are highly edumacated.

What you should have said:
"Yes, beware the close-minded, they are the enemies of your way of thinking." In obtaining my four degrees, I've crossed paths with many of them from all political persuasions.

 sebster wrote:
University sociology classes are the only place where you can guarantee an argument will break out, and that everyone in that argument will be wrong.

I never had to sit through one, but knowing people who did it was always funny to get them together over a few drinks


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frazzled wrote:
What you should have said:
"Yes, beware the close-minded, they are the enemies of your way of thinking." In obtaining my four degrees, I've crossed paths with many of them from all political persuasions.

There were classes I knew not to take in university because to disagree with the professor was to fail

I think Dakka Dakka has IMPROVED my poole skills. Everyone still hates but they will talk to me first, it's amazing! Except Catholics, they can smell the atheist on me.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

There were classes I knew not to take in university because to disagree with the professor was to fail

And people say college doesn't prepare you for the real world!

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
What you should have said:
"Yes, beware the close-minded, they are the enemies of your way of thinking." In obtaining my four degrees, I've crossed paths with many of them from all political persuasions.

There were classes I knew not to take in university because to disagree with the professor was to fail

I also avoided certain professors for similar reasons.

 Frazzled wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rotary wrote:
Just be careful with what you argue. A lot of those teachers are very set in their liberal ways. They are much more happy for you to stroke their ego and fall in line than to have to read a paper written by you that disagrees with their own views.

This is just personal experience, but from what i've seen your view on the subject will help determine your grade more than the quality of your work.

All jokes aside this is seriously correct. It will be even worse in college. I advised my boy never to actually disagree with a professor. Fortunately he got all his hippy tree hugger classes out via qualifying out, online courses, or the local community college during the summer and is now in real classes.

Like i said, I have seen a few teachers like that, but they where exceptions. My Current proffessor of urban sociology just reports the facts and history. How African Americans where redlined, how womens views have changed concerning the suburbs. She loves disagreements in class. She was the one who said to me "Im glad you said that, it is a very good point. Hard work isnt rewarded, it is skills. As it should be"

 the shrouded lord wrote:
I think Dakka Dakka has IMPROVED my poole skills. Everyone still hates but they will talk to me first, it's amazing! Except Catholics, they can smell the atheist on me.

And probably care far less about it than your evengelical Christian.

 the shrouded lord wrote:
Except Catholics, they can smell the atheist on me.

I think they make a deoderant for that now

 Polonius wrote:
And people say college doesn't prepare you for the real world!

Pushing back deadlines and leaving everything to the last minute is wonderful preparation for the real world

Another thing my proffessor said "If you arent procrastinating, you are not doing it right"

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
And people say college doesn't prepare you for the real world!

Pushing back deadlines and leaving everything to the last minute is wonderful preparation for the real world

I can't think of any instances where I had a professor that punished those that disagreed, and looked only for regurgitation of his/her views. Maybe I got lucky, maybe my school had less politcal profs, or maybe the classes I took (mostly philosophy, science, engineering, and math) didn't attract ideologues. Or maybe I just didn't notice because I skipped a lot of classes and got awful grades anyway, so how would I really notice bias?

But I've heard enough accounts from enough people to really see that such professors exist. Now, I have the luxury of ideological views that are relatively moderate and not particualrly important to me, but I can see how others can struggle. Academic freedom and all that noise.

Still, part of me chuckles, being now almost five years removed from graduation, at the complaints people raised about professors. "Oh, I have to listen to his views, and rewrite them on the exam or I fail." Really? Wow, I can't think of any time I have to use my skills, knowledge, and training to write something I disagree with. No, wait, that's basically a couple times a week at my job. "Professors don't care about good arguments, they just want people to agree with them." Yeah. Wait until you run into that boss. It's a lot more fun when your job is on the line.

I'd never advocate for lousy teaching. But learning how to deal with crappy authority figures is a big part of being an adult.