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Or maybe I just didn't notice because I skipped a lot of classes and got awful grades anyway, so how would I really notice bias?
I'll drink to that.
To the bias. Its only an issue if you make the mistake of caring enough to argue. If your goal is to get an "A" then you'll adjust appropriately.
Interestingly, the profs I liked the best were not the hothouse tenure flowers who never worked a day in their life, but the ones who worked on the side, or alternatively, teaching was a part time gig they did because they enjoyed it. I hope to do similar in a few years.
Interestingly, The Boy just expressed interest in potentially being a prof. Man I won that bet.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Polonius wrote: And people say college doesn't prepare you for the real world!
Pushing back deadlines and leaving everything to the last minute is wonderful preparation for the real world
I can't think of any instances where I had a professor that punished those that disagreed, and looked only for regurgitation of his/her views. Maybe I got lucky, maybe my school had less politcal profs, or maybe the classes I took (mostly philosophy, science, engineering, and math) didn't attract ideologues. Or maybe I just didn't notice because I skipped a lot of classes and got awful grades anyway, so how would I really notice bias?
But I've heard enough accounts from enough people to really see that such professors exist. Now, I have the luxury of ideological views that are relatively moderate and not particualrly important to me, but I can see how others can struggle. Academic freedom and all that noise.
Still, part of me chuckles, being now almost five years removed from graduation, at the complaints people raised about professors. "Oh, I have to listen to his views, and rewrite them on the exam or I fail." Really? Wow, I can't think of any time I have to use my skills, knowledge, and training to write something I disagree with. No, wait, that's basically a couple times a week at my job. "Professors don't care about good arguments, they just want people to agree with them." Yeah. Wait until you run into that boss. It's a lot more fun when your job is on the line.
I'd never advocate for lousy teaching. But learning how to deal with crappy authority figures is a big part of being an adult.
Lets get married!
Veriamp wrote:I have emerged from my lurking to say one thing. When Mat taught the Necrons to feel, he taught me to love.
Ouze wrote: “Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”
- John Steinbeck
Oooooh! Good one!
I have dealt with so many people who act "entitled" but have not put any effort in developing skills to improve their options in life.
I disagree with a prior post that "it is not hard work but skills", without the hard work, the skills will never get developed, one is derived by the other.
Life can corner people and hand them a raw deal, yes, but those are few and far between, too often people's choices land them in their own mess and not some outside force.
<edit> Felt I needed to clarify that just plain being born in a third world country in turmoil is the "raw deal" I am talking about.
Example of "entitlement":
Spoiler:
I had some supplier send some people from the U.S. to sort parts at our facility (near the border).
Demands for tables, chairs, more lighting, fans, water, extra boxes, floor mats, labels, markers, tape, dedicated forklift.. they could have brought at least couple items.
These were also not formed as requests but demands by right (Told the assigned forklift driver to make them lowest priority).
The "ladies" sorting had the most wonderful long well manicured nails and they were sorting steel parts with no gloves and refused flatly when asked to wear them for safety.
You can imagine how slow the parts were handled.
All the while me being spoken to as a barely tolerated underling not the customer with defective parts they are sorting: I was quite impressed with their entitlement.
I had to call the supplier rep and told them that supporting his staff drained more resources than it was worth and next time he can have all the parts shipped back.
He actually started to laugh and said "feisty aren't they?" and I said "They appeared unwilling to work and took in a day what my staff could have done in an hour, I do not know how you stay in business.".
Some people confuse attitude with "class" and demand "respect" when nothing has been demonstrated to deserve it.
I was surprised how angry I got with this incident, but ran into that a lot in the Michigan, Deerbourne area, really cannot understand it.
How can someone DEMAND respect and be so unwilling to give in return? It only breeds a confrontational situation.
Critical thinking helps with cutting through all the bull that people play to fluff-up what they do and make it appear more than what it really is.
Straight talk I appreciate far more and with the help of a few key members: you get it in excess here at Dakka!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/03/11 15:16:39
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
Ouze wrote: “Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”
- John Steinbeck
Oooooh! Good one!
I have dealt with so many people who act "entitled" but have not put any effort in developing skills to improve their options in life.
I disagree with a prior post that "it is not hard work but skills", without the hard work, the skills will never get developed, one is derived by the other.
Life can corner people and hand them a raw deal, yes, but those are few and far between, too often people's choices land them in their own mess and not some outside force.
<edit> Felt I needed to clarify that just plain being born in a third world country in turmoil is the "raw deal" I am talking about.
When I said hard work, I meant it when a Women said "But I know this guy who puts in 16 hours a day at the hardwearstore and Mcdonalds. He works hard" I said he obviously does, but his skills are easily replaceable.
Ouze wrote: “Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”
- John Steinbeck
Oooooh! Good one!
I have dealt with so many people who act "entitled" but have not put any effort in developing skills to improve their options in life.
I disagree with a prior post that "it is not hard work but skills", without the hard work, the skills will never get developed, one is derived by the other.
Life can corner people and hand them a raw deal, yes, but those are few and far between, too often people's choices land them in their own mess and not some outside force.
<edit> Felt I needed to clarify that just plain being born in a third world country in turmoil is the "raw deal" I am talking about.
When I said hard work, I meant it when a Women said "But I know this guy who puts in 16 hours a day at the hardwearstore and Mcdonalds. He works hard" I said he obviously does, but his skills are easily replaceable.
His skills are easily replacable. What does that mean, though? That we can just replace him, too? Because that's not how society works.
Wait, did I entered one of these threads? Uh-oh...
His skills are easily replacable. What does that mean, though? That we can just replace him, too? Because that's not how society works.
It doesn't mean he'll be cast aside on a whim and replaced, but it does mean that he gets paid little, has little independence in his job, and gets no respect because he has minimal value as a worker because he can be removed at a moments noticed and replaced with just about anyone else.
Though the cevat of Hotsauces quote is that often times most people have marketable skills or the capacity to learn them, but are simply never utilized for various reasons. Lack of education, criminal history, improper training/prepardness etc. That's kind of what many sociologies rail against in the stereotypical liberal classroom agenda. The uneven starting point of different groups when entering the supposedly even playing field.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/11 17:46:11
Sauce, you forgot to mention tha teven these low skill labors should earn enough to be abel to buy guys so they can protect themselves. Other than that their ability to own guns, they have no value in society.
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He has a point though in that professors shouldn't let their personal opinions effect education, and while I feel people heavily overstate that this happens in colleges, it does sometimes happen. I don't know if it reflected in grades but I've seen professors be noteably sidetracked (as mentioned earlier) from actual subject matter by something else.
More often I avoided a class/professor because I knew the course work to be more difficult/tedious than anything.
More often I avoided a class/professor because I knew the course work to be more difficult/tedious than anything.
Ayah my first year law classes and professors were predetermined. It was widely believed that one professor would just take all the finals and throw them down a flight of stairs. The ones on top would get A's, everyone else would get C's. Comparing after the class, it seemed like a fairly accurate view.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
LordofHats wrote: He has a point though in that professors shouldn't let their personal opinions effect education, and while I feel people heavily overstate that this happens in colleges, it does sometimes happen. I don't know if it reflected in grades but I've seen professors be noteably sidetracked (as mentioned earlier) from actual subject matter by something else.
More often I avoided a class/professor because I knew the course work to be more difficult/tedious than anything.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen but if you go into an environmental science class and disagree with the prof because he believes Global Warming exists you're just being a disagreeable ass who isn't concerned about learning and being educated.
My favorite professor story is when I ran across one of my Profs riding the commuter bus. I had seen this guy had been referenced in numerous books/articles for lay people and other academics. The class I was taking had about 160+ people in it.
It recognized me from his class and he said to me, "I was really disappointed in your paper. I expected more from you. What happened?"
I was floored he even knew who I was much less read my paper, formed and opinion on it, and then told me in public that it sucked.
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https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing
Ayah my first year law classes and professors were predetermined. It was widely believed that one professor would just take all the finals and throw them down a flight of stairs. The ones on top would get A's, everyone else would get C's. Comparing after the class, it seemed like a fairly accurate view.
Ah yes. The teachers who throw the curve out with the bath water. They never made much sense to me. At all.
The one I remember was my science elective. I took Bio 101 cause it seemed simple. Oh hell it was not simple. Not at all. I bailed out of that class and took 'Cultural Chemistry' instead, which turned out to be so simple I barely needed to study at all to pass it with an A. I a history major. I'm not spending 4 hours studying, plus 4 a week in labs on top of 9 class hours a week,on 3 elective credits. The professor if anything, got points for being honest about how hard his class was
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/03/11 18:24:23
Dreadclaw69 wrote: There were classes I knew not to take in university because to disagree with the professor was to fail
Just because you disagree with someone doesn't make you right or even educated on the issue.
What was nicely pointed out by Dreadclaw69 is that you will meet people in positions of power that easily ignore a logical argument.
If you do not know how to cater, work around, ignore, avoid or manipulate these people they can be a strong roadblock in your life.
Life is under no obligation to be "fair", it is up to you to prepare and adapt.
How would you like this professor to decide totally on a whim if he 'likes" you enough to give you a passing grade?
Or that McDonalds franchise owner that has decided to make you his whipping boy and you have to suck it up or he will fire you and he will feel good he added a black mark to your resume?
Cheesecat: Think about that statement you made, a series of facts can help support you being "right" and education: "The process of receiving or giving systematic instruction, esp. at a school or university" or "an enlightening experience" still does not make an argument any more correct without some reasoning behind it.
By immediately discounting what someone has to say (unless it is a rant ) is a poor way to disagree with someone which eventually leads to being ignored.
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
I'm not saying that some profs don't abuse their authority once in a while I'm just pointing out what is sometimes the other side of the story which is the student is wrong about something and is being disagreeable because it doesn't match his/her beliefs.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Ayah my first year law classes and professors were predetermined. It was widely believed that one professor would just take all the finals and throw them down a flight of stairs. The ones on top would get A's, everyone else would get C's. Comparing after the class, it seemed like a fairly accurate view.
Ah yes. The teachers who throw the curve out with the bath water. They never made much sense to me. At all.
The one I remember was my science elective. I took Bio 101 cause it seemed simple. Oh hell it was not simple. Not at all. I bailed out of that class and took 'Cultural Chemistry' instead, which turned out to be so simple I barely needed to study at all to pass it with an A. I a history major. I'm not spending 4 hours studying, plus 4 a week in labs on top of 9 class hours a week,on 3 elective credits. The professor if anything, got points for being honest about how hard his class was
Mine had to have been my Intro to Sociology class. He was a super liberal who hated disneyland because it was supplementing our culture.
So far, all my other Sociology teachers have been moderates focusing on data, ideas and schools of thought. I remember one teacher to very much believed in the idea of studying family units and how they are changing. The reason I love sociology isnt because its liberal nature, but because looking at various units of humans and how they interact fascinates me endlessly
Mine had to have been my Intro to Sociology class. He was a super liberal who hated disneyland because it was supplementing our culture.
You mean supplanting.
He'd be very in favor of Disneyland if he felt it completed or enhanced our culture.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/11 19:48:05
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
Disneyland is Disney World's less attractive sister that has to work for the rest of her life in a cubicle while Disney World lives a jet setting lifestyle of cocaine and binge drinking.
Hmmm. I don't think this stuff is as big a deal when you get a technical education.
But arguing with people you don't agree with on Dakka is good for your brain, as long as you don't let it annoy you too much. I've had my mind changed, and developed an understanding of previously alien points of view on Dakka.
That's why I've only ever put two people on Ignore, and if I'm in a moderately good mood I'll often read the posts anyhow, it just acts as a reminder to skip them if I'm having a bad day.
The reason I love sociology isnt because its liberal nature
Sociology has no liberal nature. It's a science. Many sociologists are liberal because the nature of their work puts them very close to societal problems and issues, and by the very nature of that work there's a disinclination to be conservative about those things.
Also unsure how a cultural icon like Disney can possibly be viewed as supplanting our culture... That's kind of baffling.
Also unsure how a cultural icon like Disney can possibly be viewed as supplanting our culture... That's kind of baffling.
Because Disney is Big Business, man.
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
Da Boss wrote: Hmmm. I don't think this stuff is as big a deal when you get a technical education.
I think you're right, and I think the problem is that we have too few people getting purposeful, technical educations and too many people getting "well rounded liberal arts educations" which, full disclosure, I have.
I guess I'm a bit more enlightened for it, but man, looking back I had a lot of classes that were, functionally, a waste of time.
Good old pragmatism really starts to set in the first time you get laid off in a dried up job market.
Also unsure how a cultural icon like Disney can possibly be viewed as supplanting our culture... That's kind of baffling.
I asked him that, One thing he said was how disney just did the Margi gras parade in New orleans and is trying to take over that culture. I didnt get it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/11 20:13:43
That's called advertizing, not taking over a culture.
Besides, that parade was one of 12 dozen. If he thinks Disney is ever going to take over the BIG parades in New Orleans, then he doesn't understand anything about "Show your T__s!"
5000pts 
6000pts 
3000pts
) is a poor way to disagree with someone which eventually leads to being ignored.
