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So I need to call on the aid of those in Dakka who might be more knowledgeable about dogs than I am.

Here's my situation:

This summer, I'd like to get a dog. I have had dogs growing up (Airedale Terriers, fairly big dogs) and while I have experience around dogs, and get along fine with them, I do not have a lot of experience being the main trainer of a dog. I also live in a condo where there are limits on the overall size of a dog that I can have, and noise concerns, not to mention the other things I want in a dog. So what I need help with is trying to figure out a breed that would fit my needs well while also falling into the requirements for where I am living. Here's the skinny:

Size - The maximum size of dog I can have is 30 pounds, as set by my condo. However, I want to add that I have no interest in toy breeds. No real desire for...oh I'll be politically incorrect here...an annoying little yap-dog/rat.

Trainability/Intelligence - I'd like a dog that is relatively easy to train, but I do not have a huge desire to do very complex training, or things beyond the basics. Smart is okay as well, and I'd be willing to do more training if it helps.

Activity - I can walk it once/twice a day.

Living conditions - This is a condo without a yard. But I do have access to nearby parks, but the normal 'home' would be a condo of ~1,000 square feet.

My availability - I work from home, so most days I would be able to spend time with it. But I do have occasional travel for work of several days, and things where I am out for a few hours at a time.

Shelters - I'd love to get a shelter puppy, but how can I be sure that I will get one that won't grow over the condo's size requirements.

Noise - Quiet, please.

Soooo....what kinds of dogs would be good for me? What other things will I need?

If it wasn't for the noise, I'd have said a beagle. Very trainable, affectionate little guys, but they can bark. You can, of course, train it not to. And they're very intelligent. Still probably my best suggestion anyway, you'll just have to train it not to bark.

Lots of shelter pups will probably end up being full sized dogs. Especially with mutts it can be very tough to tell how big they'll eventually get.

In my limited experience, a Pug might be right for you. Technically they are a toy breed, but they're not exactly little yap-dogs. Small but study.

Temperament is generally quiet and docile, but like any dog it can be personality dependent.

They do have some potential health problems, namely obesity if they aren't exercised regularly. They also have a higher vulnerability to respiratory problems because of their facial structure, and the breed has a propensity towards hip displasia(nearly 2/3 of all Pugs have it)

My sister had a Pug for a while and it was the most amazing dog. Very active but not noisy. And very very smart.

Training is the biggest factor in noise level. Some breeds are noisier, but training has a massive impact on it and it can also be the personality of the dog itself.

I have a beagle mix and they are about the perfect size as they are smaller but not a toy breed, plus they are typically very smart. The one downside is since they are a hound breed they can get into noise issues as some of them howl/bay if they are overly excited or if they are frustrated . This is something that can be worked on with training. My dog never had that issue and for the most part he very quiet, the only time he barks is when somebody is in our yard or drive way otherwise he's very quiet.

He does tend to go a bit nuts outside chasing squirrels but that's the hunting hound breed in him and we let him roam free in our backyard so it's ok if he chases stuff to burn off energy. They do tend to sniff stuff much more than other breeds, all dogs sniff things but beagles have weird spells sometimes where they just stand there with their nose jammed against the ground or floor sniffing at something invisible, and some of them love to find dead smelly things and roll in it. Not really a problem if they are being walked on a leash but you may find them rolling in your dirty clothes from time to time. My little guy has figured out the bathroom door doesn't shut well and every time I take a shower he raids the bathroom to steal my shirt off the floor and drags it into the hallway so he can roll on it for 5-10 minutes. Doesn't chew it or anything but rolls around on it like he's drunk.



I've also always wanted a French bulldog as they are a similar size, but I'm not sure what their habits are.

My old Sgt. had Pugs, we could'nt find any reason for them other than companionship. I love em. don't have any but mybe the right dog for your environment.
Jack Russel may be too much...

I'm a dog lover so it's a well bred German Shepherd or two for me. Kolby and Mia. Mia sings for me, love it. Can't wait to move away from city limits to get away from nieghbors who freak out when they see a black German Shepherd... real sick of people judging a great dog because of his breed. Mia offset it usually when I walk them together, he's all black and she has the white fur, pink color and lead so everyone knows she a female.

 curran12 wrote:

Activity - I can walk it once/twice a day.

 curran12 wrote:

Living conditions - This is a condo without a yard. But I do have access to nearby parks, but the normal 'home' would be a condo of ~1,000 square feet.

 curran12 wrote:

My availability - I work from home, so most days I would be able to spend time with it. But I do have occasional travel for work of several days.

Okay mate. I know that you really want a dog. I'm going to be totally honest with you: You should not get a dog right now. These pieces of information are really sending up red flags. You will only have time to walk the dog once per day, and you have no yard? What if you pick a supposedly quiet breed, but this particular animal is relatively loud, what then? You will get rid of it because you need quiet in your apartment?

Wait until you have a more suitable place to live to get a dog, preferably with a large fenced in yard. Especially if you think you can only give the poor thing one walk per day. Come on mate, be honest with yourself and just think about whether that sort of life that dog is going to have.

My parents have a pug, and she's a lovely dog. Largest of the toy breeds, but they're pretty sturdy (seriously, they're actually very strong for their size), and definitely don't seem like other toy breeds.
They love to eat, and they won't stop unless you keep them away from the food, so you have to be diligent with feeding them, and make sure they only get what they're supposed to.
As far as exercise is concerned, a walk a day is good for them, although sometimes it gets too cold around here (and then when the snow melts, the salt on the sidewalks are really bad for her feet). So long as you keep them properly fed and give them some kind of physical engagement (I tend to just swing her around by a chew toy whenever I'm home), they can keep fairly well. The important thing is just making sure they don't overeat.

Pugs are supposedly pretty smart, although mine is about as dumb as a rock. That said, they're fairly easy to train (especially if treats are involved), and even when they're not particularly well trained (ie, mine), they have a demeanour that stops them from getting in too much trouble. They can also be trained to use pads/litter boxes, which is great for your situation.

Just a tip as far as treats go, most of the ones you'll buy from the pet store are overpriced, unhealthy junk food. Instead, we found that snap peas make great alternatives. Just buy a big bag, and whenever you want to give them a treat, just take one and break it into a few pieces (skin and all).

I highly recommend skipping the puppy stage altogether. Adopt, but adopt a nice 2 or 3 year old. That way the dog is already at full growth- barring a bit of girth as it slows down.

A corgi sounds perfect for everything but your activity levels. They really need two walks a day to remain well behaved- and I would not want to leave one in a condo for a few days.

On the other hand, my brother had one they adopted at 8 years old, and it seemed totally happy to imitate a pillow all day. You may want to consider getting an old dog until you move out of the condo.

Get a bastard from the pond, pure breeds have particular genetic defects.

^This is very true. Depending on the defects, you'll have to pay a killing in vet fees. And unless you know that they came from a breeder, there's a good chance that they came from a puppy mill, which is just awful.

@OP: How do you feel about shedding?

Cleanup is something I have to deal with, so I'm okay with it. That said, my allergies wouldn't mind less shedding, but I can live with some.

Anything you're leaning towards yet?

If all else fails, you can always get a cat that acts like a dog!

Cats are, unfortunately, off the table entirely. I'm allergic to most kinds of cat dander and fur.

Right now, if I had to make a list of breeds that interest me on a base level (albeit this is unresearched):

Corgi
Parson Russel Terrier
Welsh Terrier
Maaaaaaybe a Shiba Inu, but I'm very turned away by the high training ceiling for them

But that is not to deny anything other than what I talked about earlier, either.

corgis are absolutely adorable, but I don't know if they would be suitable. They have a reputation for being loud, and they are also rather active, so would require more than two walks a day. To be fair, pretty much all dogs require more than two walks a day, especially when you have no yard.
I have a very lazy dog, but I still walk her 4 times a day. Early in the morning, in the afternoon, after dinner and before going to bed. That is pretty much a minimal standard for most dogs I'd say. More active dogs require more walks.

These lists might be helpfull in choosing a good dog breed for you: http://listverse.com/2007/12/21/top-10-dogs-for-lazy-owners/, http://www.vetstreet.com/dogs/12-couch-potato-dog-breeds
You could also look into mixed-breed dogs, but they do tend to be more unique and therefore somewhat unpredictable.

Another thing to note is my flexibility. If I need to walk it more times, I can do that. This was something I didn't know outright, so don't see that as a hard limit.

The big limiting factors for me are the size most of all, because I actually have a hard and fast rule about that. Noise, walking, etc are things I can adjust and train for.

I had a beagle/corgi mix when I was 9-21. He lived that long, and had an untimely death from an accident. So the mixed breed had some survivability, age-wise. Corgis are definitely a good call as well, but again, go for a mixed breed. If noise and walking are things you can work around, go with at least a partial corgi breed for the size and cuddly factor. Everyone wants to cuddle doggies. Everyone.

 curran12 wrote:
Cleanup is something I have to deal with, so I'm okay with it. That said, my allergies wouldn't mind less shedding, but I can live with some.

If you can deal with, or afford*, regular grooming I would recommend a King Charles Spaniel. That is, of course, assuming you can find one that isn't on offer for your first born.

Absent that, I would go Dachshund. They are difficult dogs to train, but once trained are very obedient.


*If you keep it puppy cut your allergies should be fine.

 curran12 wrote:
Noise - Quiet, please.

You can train dogs to be quiet. I've read that the best way is to first train them to bark on command "speak", then you can teach them by association to shut-up on command "no speak".

You might want to check and see if there are any laboratories in the area that test on dogs. I've heard that medical test dogs have their vocal cords surgically cut so they can't bark, which makes the ones that survive ideal pets!

As far as the rest of your specifications go, I'd definitely say beagle. Get one young and you should easily be able to train it to be quiet.

Yes, Dachshunds for the win. If you don't mind brushing it from time to time, long haired are supposedly better on allergies.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Yes, Dachshunds for the win. If you don't mind brushing it from time to time, long haired are supposedly better on allergies.

Team Wienerdog support this statement with two paws up!

Many rescues have bios on dogs. You can help tell if their frantic barkers, or they just want to be a canine doll to be carried around and fed treats.

Out of curiosty now, does anyone know anything about Welsh terriers? I ask because they are the right size and closely resemble the looks of dogs I had growing up. Utterly sentimental, but yeah...

They're Welsh, I wouldn't understand their barking. Sorry.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
They're Welsh, I wouldn't understand their barking. Sorry.

And for that first laugh of the week on a monday, have an exalt, sir.

Unfortunately, I'me going to have to stand against the rest of Team Wienerdog.

While I love all three of my Doxies, they are exactly the dog you don't want. Not only are they extremely stubborn and hard to train, they're also more prone to being what are known as "nuisance barkers".

 curran12 wrote:
Out of curiosty now, does anyone know anything about Welsh terriers? I ask because they are the right size and closely resemble the looks of dogs I had growing up. Utterly sentimental, but yeah...

I have little knowlegde of Welsh and am just reading the Wikipedia entry here, but it says they are very hard to train and need constant reinforcement. It also says they have the potential for excessive barking and, being very energetic dogs, they need to be constantly entertained and lots and lots of excercise.
From that, they seem like a dog you absolutely do not want.

Honestly most smaller terriers fall into the yappy type dog area.

The hilarious thing about your requirements is, you could get all of that in a dog that is way over 30 pounds. Big dogs are far less active, often easier to train, and if you get the right breed, actually need less room, as long as you don't mind giving it it's own couch.

Also, don't get a pug, medical problems up the wazoo. (and their eyes can pop out)

As for the list you mentioned:

Corgi and Welsh terrier I don't have much experience with.

The Parson Russel terrier however is a big no-no. Just like Jack Russel terriers these things we're bred as rat catchers. The breed is known for being hyper active, very loud, and often rather agressive, especialy if smaller animals are involved. I honestly would never advise anyone to get a breed like this unless they are perfectly aware and have the knowledge to train such behaviour out of them or if they plan to use them as actual rat catchers. Kind of the same as people who take border collies as house pets and then get confused when the dog tries to herd their kids. Some dogs were bred purely for work, keep this in mind if you look into a breed.

And yeah, Shibi Inu is also stubborn as hell, like a beagle really. That's the problem with intelligent breeds, they take more effort to train properly because they will try every way of breaking the rules, to set the boundries.

Sadly me GF is away for the week (training dolphins for some reason) otherwise I would've asked her for better advice, she studies animal behaviour with a big focus on dogs.

My girlfriend used to train dogs and he's worked/volunteered in shelters for 12 years - she always recommends an Italian Greyhound. She's on her second rescue iggie, and she's been an awesome dog.

Might want to look at a retired Greyhound, bit close to your weight restriction though. (Maybe look at half a retired greyhound.) Affectionate dogs and do not really need as much exercise as you would think.