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So I was looking around and did not see anyone talk about this topic. Seeing how Star Wars evolved I was wondering if Warhammer 40k could do the same and if so why it hasn't happen already. Its seems that there is plenty of story content and with new graphic technology Warhammer 40k could make some ground breaking movies, at least its better then all these throw backs and horrible movies coming out today.

Pure CGI movies are extremely expensive, especially to make one that looks like a live action. The other trouble is figuring out what to do for the movies. Taking BL books, you'd have hundreds if not thousands of hours of movies, where do you start to actually get people bought in?

1.HBO Eisenhorn series.
2.Profit and widespread exposure.

Thats the great part it could start anywhere and then go back like star wars

This could technically happen, but it's unlikely. Star Wars succeeded as a pop culture phenomenon, with revolutionary visuals and almost a complete reinvention of a genre. No 'Sci-fi Lite' movies existed at the time, excluding low-budget serials from the early days of cinema. The only sci-fi in existence was hard political commentary and speculative fiction, at least for the most part.
Star Wars broke a huge amount of ground by making Science Fiction accessible to everyone, with a fairly simple but well-written and acted plot, new concepts, and a fun movie that didn't require a lot of thought. Nothing like it had ever come before, and so it took the world by storm with it's innovation and unique style. Everything since then has been succesful mainly through inertia. There is a lot of bad Star Wars. There is a lot of good Star Wars. But the bad can be ignored because of it's mere weight as a cultural icon, and it has enough social impact and enough people know about it to keep it running for years or even decades after the last good piece of SW fiction is written.

40k doesn't have that. Dune came out half a century ago. Nobody will be taken by surprise by 40k, any more than they will be caught off guard by a turtle. Regardless of quality, 40k simply doesn't have the shock or capability to build up the social inertia to become a widespread phenomenon like Star Wars.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
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I've thought way too much about this.

No.

Waaaghpower wrote:
This could technically happen, but it's unlikely. Star Wars succeeded as a pop culture phenomenon, with revolutionary visuals and almost a complete reinvention of a genre. No 'Sci-fi Lite' movies existed at the time, excluding low-budget serials from the early days of cinema. The only sci-fi in existence was hard political commentary and speculative fiction, at least for the most part.
Star Wars broke a huge amount of ground by making Science Fiction accessible to everyone, with a fairly simple but well-written and acted plot, new concepts, and a fun movie that didn't require a lot of thought. Nothing like it had ever come before, and so it took the world by storm with it's innovation and unique style. Everything since then has been succesful mainly through inertia. There is a lot of bad Star Wars. There is a lot of good Star Wars. But the bad can be ignored because of it's mere weight as a cultural icon, and it has enough social impact and enough people know about it to keep it running for years or even decades after the last good piece of SW fiction is written.

40k doesn't have that. Dune came out half a century ago. Nobody will be taken by surprise by 40k, any more than they will be caught off guard by a turtle. Regardless of quality, 40k simply doesn't have the shock or capability to build up the social inertia to become a widespread phenomenon like Star Wars.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
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I've thought way too much about this.

Thats the best thing about starwars. I watched the originals not too long ago because I know from what family have said and so on how much of a huge thing it was. Kids used to cheer and scream when the opening scene started and theaters where packed as people just couldn't get enough.

40K doesnt have that shock value like starwars. The only thing it has going for it is the dark tones which is popular today. If a major 40k film was made today it will be a flop. It doesnt quite have the right background for movies.

It doesn't have the same mass appeal as Star Wars, and to dilute it to the level where it would would just rip the heart right out of 40k. There's also no universally appealing entry point into the universe like the Star Wars films, where people of any age or gender can enjoy them.

Waaaghpower wrote:
This could technically happen, but it's unlikely. Star Wars succeeded as a pop culture phenomenon, with revolutionary visuals and almost a complete reinvention of a genre. No 'Sci-fi Lite' movies existed at the time, excluding low-budget serials from the early days of cinema. The only sci-fi in existence was hard political commentary and speculative fiction, at least for the most part.
Star Wars broke a huge amount of ground by making Science Fiction accessible to everyone, with a fairly simple but well-written and acted plot, new concepts, and a fun movie that didn't require a lot of thought. Nothing like it had ever come before, and so it took the world by storm with it's innovation and unique style. Everything since then has been succesful mainly through inertia. There is a lot of bad Star Wars. There is a lot of good Star Wars. But the bad can be ignored because of it's mere weight as a cultural icon, and it has enough social impact and enough people know about it to keep it running for years or even decades after the last good piece of SW fiction is written.

40k doesn't have that. Dune came out half a century ago. Nobody will be taken by surprise by 40k, any more than they will be caught off guard by a turtle. Regardless of quality, 40k simply doesn't have the shock or capability to build up the social inertia to become a widespread phenomenon like Star Wars.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
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I've thought way too much about this.

Game of Khornes

Band of berzerkers

Focused on Imperial guard, it could make a niche market grim, gory with undertones of intolerance "goverment control" religious fanaticism, it has the potential to reach a wider auidience but GW would never loosen the reigns to allow that to happen.

I'm not a massive fan of the Star Wars films. The flicks seem better in my head than when I sit and watch one. I love the universe they have created though. Weird, eh?!

That being said, no chance could 40k ever be that big.

I'd love to see AMC or HBO do some 40k stuff though. It wouldn't have to be Titan Legions scale, but maybe a Guard (sorry, Milly) squad holding out against some nids.

Sorry, that's Starship Troopers.

Waaaghpower wrote:

...a fairly simple but well-written and acted plot,

Have you seen Star Wars?!

Gw won't allow the studios free reign to make what they want and for good reason, but it means the yanks have no interest because they can't make Johnny depp into a space marine.

Grimdark sells well in games but not so well in big budget action movies.

Star Wars, as it stands today, relies mostly on a mixture of nostalgia, myth, and mainstream identification with geek culture. It has become a rite of passage of sorts where, since 1977, each generation introduces the following to it, and no franchise, no matter how hard they try, can replicate that.

If 40k is going to the screens, they'd better avoid taking the Star Wars "simple fun for all the family" route, specially when the strenghts of the story lie in its cynicism, dark sense of humor, and a baroqueness that goes beyond the purely visual.

I don't think it would really work as a movie. You see Star Wars had one major plot that had a start a middle and an end. Then the universe just expanded around that main event, like books, comic books, video games, the prequel movies etc. The problem with 40k is that there is no "central storyline" Sure their are tons of big events but if you made a direct comparison, the 40k timeline only goes up to about the same plot advancement as just after the battle of Hoth in Empire. In that, the "good" guys have just been struck a major blow (eye of terror campaign) we lack a "happy ending" where Abaddon is killed and Chaos defeated.

True you could use any number of enclosed story lines like the Nightlords Trilogy or Eisenhorn or any of the many plot lines. The problem is that almost all 40k books assume the reader is in some way familiar with the background, so it's very difficult to do like a total introduction without ruining the story.

The Horus Heresy doesn't work because as with most prequels, a lot of the stories work on irony or foreshadowing, assuming that the reader knows what the 40k world will end up like. Plus it is wayyyyy too big to ever be a reality. It took nearly 10 years to turn the 7 Harry Potter books into a movie. The HH series is probably going to run into the region of 35/40 novels before it's done, if it's ever done.

I think the best way to make 40k into a popular media would be like an animated tv series. Something like Dragon Ball Z, where you have these huge storylines that go on for weeks and weeks and then when one "saga" is over, move onto the next one. But even that would be a massive stretch. To be honest I think we should be greatful that we are staying as a niche, where all the wacky hobby goings on can continue and not have to conform to whatever would draw in the the greater public.

I mean look at a Hollywood execs mind if this was proposed to them:
"So the main character is a 7 foot tall killing machine in power armour? Awesome, who's his love interest? Oh what wait...they're A sexual...mmm can't he have a girlfriend? What about one of those Sisters of Battle? Yeah that works, Ok So Captain Bloggs falls in love with Sister Needsrescuing and they're fighting these evil superhumans for the fate of the galaxy and what's that?...The bad guys win? The good guys are actually a dictatorship too? No we can't have that. Ok so change it so the Space Marine saves the girl, kills the big bad, delivers a cheeseball quotable phrase, Maybe he makes fun of the bad guy's lack of arms...I don't know, I'm not the writer, we're just shooting ideas. And they all live happily ever after. Huh? Grimdark, nah audiences won't like that, Oh but we do like the fact that you already jacked up the prices on the merch to promote the movie...oh those are the regular prices? Wow, how is this even a thing?"

 KorPhaeron77 wrote:

I mean look at a Hollywood execs mind if this was proposed to them:
"So the main character is a 7 foot tall killing machine in power armour? Awesome, who's his love interest? Oh what wait...they're A sexual...mmm can't he have a girlfriend? What about one of those Sisters of Battle? Yeah that works, Ok So Captain Bloggs falls in love with Sister Needsrescuing and they're fighting these evil superhumans for the fate of the galaxy and what's that?...The bad guys win? The good guys are actually a dictatorship too? No we can't have that. Ok so change it so the Space Marine saves the girl, kills the big bad, delivers a cheeseball quotable phrase, Maybe he makes fun of the bad guy's lack of arms...I don't know, I'm not the writer, we're just shooting ideas. And they all live happily ever after. Huh? Grimdark, nah audiences won't like that, Oh but we do like the fact that you already jacked up the prices on the merch to promote the movie...oh those are the regular prices? Wow, how is this even a thing?"

Oddly enough, a lot of these themes are there in the Clone Wars CGI cartoon series. The good guys are most definitely a dictatorship, and it's shown that a lot of folks aren't happy under them. While Anakin has a love interest, most of the heroes can not or do not have them. The audience isn't bombarded with cheesy one liners, and we all know that this story doesn't end happily for everyone involved, even if this arc might. I'm not saying a 40k animated series would have the same appeal or audience as a Star Wars one, but it can be done.

 Brother SRM wrote:

 KorPhaeron77 wrote:

I mean look at a Hollywood execs mind if this was proposed to them:
"So the main character is a 7 foot tall killing machine in power armour? Awesome, who's his love interest? Oh what wait...they're A sexual...mmm can't he have a girlfriend? What about one of those Sisters of Battle? Yeah that works, Ok So Captain Bloggs falls in love with Sister Needsrescuing and they're fighting these evil superhumans for the fate of the galaxy and what's that?...The bad guys win? The good guys are actually a dictatorship too? No we can't have that. Ok so change it so the Space Marine saves the girl, kills the big bad, delivers a cheeseball quotable phrase, Maybe he makes fun of the bad guy's lack of arms...I don't know, I'm not the writer, we're just shooting ideas. And they all live happily ever after. Huh? Grimdark, nah audiences won't like that, Oh but we do like the fact that you already jacked up the prices on the merch to promote the movie...oh those are the regular prices? Wow, how is this even a thing?"

Oddly enough, a lot of these themes are there in the Clone Wars CGI cartoon series. The good guys are most definitely a dictatorship, and it's shown that a lot of folks aren't happy under them. While Anakin has a love interest, most of the heroes can not or do not have them. The audience isn't bombarded with cheesy one liners, and we all know that this story doesn't end happily for everyone involved, even if this arc might. I'm not saying a 40k animated series would have the same appeal or audience as a Star Wars one, but it can be done.

Exactly my point; it could work as an animated tv show but not as a Hollywood Blockbuster. Those guys are not about taking risks and a big budget 40k movie would be a huge gamble. Even the name "Warhammer 40,000" would put off most of the non fanbase.

Simply put, NO. Most successful movies and shows are based around characters. Something 40k really lacks (you could try to do specific BL novels as a move or something.) The larger issue though is that 40k is a setting....not a story.

You would need to build a story around characters, and honestly space marines are not a great place for deep characters. SO you probably end up tiny window into a small part of the world.

I actually think an Inquisition (Dark Heresy) or Rouge Trader themed show in the setting has more possibilty of success than one based in the formal 40k setting. But even that being successful is a stretch.

Waaaghpower wrote:
This could technically happen, but it's unlikely. Star Wars succeeded as a pop culture phenomenon, with revolutionary visuals and almost a complete reinvention of a genre. No 'Sci-fi Lite' movies existed at the time, excluding low-budget serials from the early days of cinema. The only sci-fi in existence was hard political commentary and speculative fiction, at least for the most part.
Star Wars broke a huge amount of ground by making Science Fiction accessible to everyone, with a fairly simple but well-written and acted plot, new concepts, and a fun movie that didn't require a lot of thought. Nothing like it had ever come before, and so it took the world by storm with it's innovation and unique style. Everything since then has been succesful mainly through inertia. There is a lot of bad Star Wars. There is a lot of good Star Wars. But the bad can be ignored because of it's mere weight as a cultural icon, and it has enough social impact and enough people know about it to keep it running for years or even decades after the last good piece of SW fiction is written.

40k doesn't have that. Dune came out half a century ago. Nobody will be taken by surprise by 40k, any more than they will be caught off guard by a turtle. Regardless of quality, 40k simply doesn't have the shock or capability to build up the social inertia to become a widespread phenomenon like Star Wars.


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I've thought way too much about this.

Excellent analysis. Don't be ashamed of your ability to think.

monders: I mean relatively well acted and written. It's no Resevoir Dogs, but it's pretty decent.

GorillaWarfare: I mostly just wish I could put that much thought into useful things...

 Eldarain wrote:
1.HBO Eisenhorn series.
2.Profit and widespread exposure.

... but there is no sex in 40K, what would HBO have to film then?

The Gaunt's Ghosts books would probably be the most adaptation-friendly material, seeing as they actually have identifiable, even sympathetic characters that an audience can relate to - but it achieves that mostly by keeping the more iconic elements of the setting - i.e. the Space Marines - more or less out of the action.

Regardless of that though, I think it would be a huge mistake for GW to put their flagship IP under the glare of the mainstream media spotlight that a movie or major series would attract. The BL consistently has a level of violence that makes Game of Thrones look like The Chronicles of Narnia, and that's not going to sell well to the under-18 audience, or more precisely, to their parents.

That's not even getting into the religious fundamentalism, the absolute xenophobia and the state mandated genocide of any alien race unfortunate enough to cross the path of the Imperium of Man...

Waaaghpower wrote:
monders: I mean relatively well acted and written. It's no Resevoir Dogs, but it's pretty decent.

GorillaWarfare: I mostly just wish I could put that much thought into useful things...

Starwars is oscar worthy compared to the writing and acting on Ultramarines the Movie.

Absolutely not. Star Wars DOES sync up with kids very well. With all the grim darkness of 40k, I dont think many parents would want to see young kids involved in all that (I can argue that the games are abstract as they are just models) on the TV or movie screens. Not only that, Star Wars is pretty universally liked. I say that hating Episodes 1-3 btw. As most adults do.

40k def fills a slot, but it couldnt even touch Transformers let alone Star Wars.


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 thenoobbomb wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
1.HBO Eisenhorn series.
2.Profit and widespread exposure.

... but there is no sex in 40K, what would HBO have to film then?

Or even sexual chemistry, which you need now in the Hollywood formula, so that chics will have something to follow.

Notice that all major movies have something in it for both sexes, even if they are watching for different things.

Star Wars has a lot of things going for it that 40k does not and likely will not ever have. As others have pointed out Star Wars is a story, one which taps into our collective conscience via the monomyth and the "Hero With a Thousand Faces", something which 40K hasn't/doesn't do and cannot do, because to do so would basically amount to a re-write of the entire canon which would have to functionally change what 40k is at the essence of its core.

From that central mythological narrative, it expanded out to create an entire mythos, one that is a coherent, consistent, and centralized canon (most of the non-canonical elements of the setting were pared out long, long ago before it could get out of hand and dilute the setting), something which, again, 40K does not have (constant retcons, contradictions, and conflicts abound).

This is, more than anything else, where Star Wars mass market appeal stems from, its accessible, its familiar, its family friendly, but its also new, its larger than life, and its transcendent.

The one thing that 40k and Star Wars do share, however, is that they are both Space Opera (rather than true sci-fi), just the basis for 40k is a much darker, sinister, and more tragic setting.

No. For the same reason as to why Judge Dredd, Lexx and anything by Garth Ennis isn't as widespread - too niche, and too dark.

I mean, Wh40k is a pretty harsh, brutal and depressing setting. It would be like a Lars von Trier film, except with things actually happening.

Speaking of Lexx; That show is, imo, the closest thing we currently have to a Wh40k TV show - it has many of the same themes as well as a dark sense of humor.

40k as a movie could work but we would need to cheat a little and focus on a small bit and expand out as the movie or series progresses.

Following the Eisenhorn books would be perfect (agreed, Eldarain), it is written in such a way anyone not familiar with 40k can get into it (lots of action too).

Grimdark is reasonably accepted from Aliens, to Riddick, Bladerunner, starship troopers and many more.
Ender's Game shows you can have big epic events with a focus on a small group.

A good story that would be do-able prop/CGI wise and reasonable acceptance of the genre is there.

The problem:
GW is company about selling collectable models, they will require all kinds of representations of their product throughout the movie.
They will meddle in that regard where I would expect the movie would appear strange trying to twist it to their needs (rather than make a new system/model range so "you too can create your favorite moments from the movie!!" tm).

The rumors I keep hearing of some new Inquisitor warband type game would be a great opportunity to show it could be the next Star Wars or Star Trek they just need to make it appear "special" and not a series of science fiction tropes all strung together.

It could, but GW doesn't have the balls to use its IP on such a grand scale.

Grimdark is reasonably accepted from Aliens, to Riddick, Bladerunner, starship troopers and many more.
Ender's Game shows you can have big epic events with a focus on a small group.

None of which have anywhere near the appeal and success and largess of Star Wars.

In a short word: no. Many have said why and I agree with them. Given the absolute crap that was Ultramarines: a Warhammer 40k movie, I just don't see a good movie being made. The movie was almost universally reviled and it make it tough to pitch a big budget needed to do a 40K movie properly. Actors are another problem as "meatheads who kill stuff in power armor" is best left to video games. And Sylvester Stallone.

Video games on the other hand have the opportunity to be amazing. Space Marine was incredible for what it was. Titus was a character you could like. The game was visceral and shooty, and in my opinion the best representation of 40K thus far. Sadly THQ closed and the trilogy was never made, but it was a big step in the right direction. Video Games are where 40K could explode, but never film.

Waaaghpower wrote:
monders:

I mean relatively well acted and written. It's no Resevoir Dogs, but it's pretty decent.

Ha ha well Mark Hamil is awful, but everyone else does a decent enough job

But who gives a feck?! It has X-Wings, TIE Fighters and Star Destroyers. Oh, and a tall menancing chap in black armour, cape and helm...

No, the majority of people wouldn't embrace the grimdark themes of 40k.

That's not to say that a good character driven movie or series could work. Animated would probably be better and could showcase the characters and models.

I probably wouldn't use Space Marines as the main characters though... Unless for the romance side of things you want to make them gay... or possibly have a love interest that existed for a marine before they were turned into a Space Marine.