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170pts 6 model carry capacity??? Wtf mates.... Not to mention the valkyrie is 125pts now. Complete bull. 65pt chimeras not a big flaw and i think im the only ig player who isnt nerd raging at the exclusion of marbo (never used him) almost gagged at the taurox.. Eww, no. And i will always call them storm troopers, not militarum tempestus. Its just a pain to say. That being said i wonder how the wyvern will play out,and definitely psyched at getting a kit for the hydra. What do y'- all think?

hasn't this already been discussed?

The Vendetta needed a nerf. I think with the drop in transport capacity it probably got a bit too much of a nerf, but oh well.

It still has a purpose, anti-air and anti-tank. Given the Hydra sucks, it's still good in the anti-air role.

Also, yeah, we already had a thread about this that was 6 pages long...

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/588224.page

I guess it could still carry maybe storm troopers ogryns or ratlings but stormtroops can deepstrike and i wouldnt drop ratlings behind enemy lines.... I dont know You could still use it to harrass Landraiders i guess

Yeah, it was fairly widely accepted that the vendetta was too good for it's cost before, and the nerf was expected.

The Vandetta was underpriced for what it did before.

A tri-las Predator is 140 points. For an extra 30 points, the Vendetta is getting all the speed and defensive advantageous of being a flier, plus twin-linked on all its guns and having them all be frontally faced as opposed to on sponsons.

A fair trade, I think.

News to me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I guess the transport capacity nerf is what hurts me the most i can deal with and extra 40pts its worth it but cutting it to 6?

The Vendetta is described as more of a Gunship with troop-carrying abilities, unlike the Vakyrie which is a transport ship, made sense to decrease the capacity.

Though 6 is pretty useless, and that combined with the entire point increase may have been a bit much.

But either way, a much needed nerf.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
The Vendetta is described as more of a Gunship with troop-carrying abilities, unlike the Vakyrie which is a transport ship, made sense to decrease the capacity.

No it doesn't. It was a stupid change because the model clearly has the same transport compartment as the Valkyrie, and the extra guns use external battery packs mounted on the gun pod.

Yeah thats true its basically a jury-rigged gunship unlike the vulture which is VERY different it was a nerf plain and simple and not a good one at that. I mean the point increase, i can understand hell i would easily pay 195pts if need be to play a vendetta , but reducing the transport capacity to six was adding insult to injury, there was no need. The model doesnt change just adds on some guns, its not like they said "oh a land raider has 4 lascannons, lets cut the tranport capacity to 5!" What sense did that change make i think it would have been better to maybe do a reverse "all power to weapons" where if you moved more than x inches you can only fire it as snapshots or maybe if you move flat out that takes the energy away from the lascannons and they cant be fired that shooting phase. But why the hell even give it a transport capacity at that point? What the hell am i supposed to put in there? So orks with KFF isnt spam but vendettas are too powerful theyre only armor 12/12/10 its not like theyre flying land raiders which IMO are very broken and need the same nerf (if fairness os what were playing at.)

 Peregrine wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
The Vendetta is described as more of a Gunship with troop-carrying abilities, unlike the Vakyrie which is a transport ship, made sense to decrease the capacity.

No it doesn't. It was a stupid change because the model clearly has the same transport compartment as the Valkyrie, and the extra guns use external battery packs mounted on the gun pod.

so by that logic my Land Raiders should have the same capacity as my Land Raider Crusaders?

 Sour Note wrote:
... its not like they said "oh a land raider has 4 lascannons, lets cut the tranport capacity to 5!"

Well, no... they went the other way, and said that since Crusaders and Redeemers didn't need to tote power cells for multiple lascannons, they had more room for passengers...

What the hell am i supposed to put in there?

Units of 6 or fewer models...?

 Sour Note wrote:
The model doesnt change just adds on some guns

Funny, a razorback is a rhino with an added turret...but it halves the capacity... Idk, the vendetta may need more cogitators inside, or less 'passengers' to balance the weight.

its not like they said "oh a land raider has 4 lascannons, lets cut the tranport capacity to 5!"

Except two landraiders cost as three vendettas, don't fly, and have two lascannons (albeit twinlinked), if I'm not missing two others somewhere else...
I mean, it is quite a big nerf, but it is somewhat... "reasonable".

Edited for typos

 Peregrine wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
The Vendetta is described as more of a Gunship with troop-carrying abilities, unlike the Vakyrie which is a transport ship, made sense to decrease the capacity.

No it doesn't. It was a stupid change because the model clearly has the same transport compartment as the Valkyrie, and the extra guns use external battery packs mounted on the gun pod.

Which was a change from it's original incarnation.

The one you continue to speak of was the change that doesn't make sense, it was simply thrown in there as a retcon, they simply changed it back to how it was originally when they first designed it, and one can easily tell when all the other vehicles in such a manner lose transport potential when they gain further armaments, despite sometimes having more twin linked lascannon weaponry, not to mention the fact that external lascannon batteries is a horrible idea considering how badly they would devastate it if they were struck.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Which was a change from it's original incarnation.

What are you talking about? The Vendetta has one and only one previous incarnation: the 5th edition IG codex. There is no other version of its rules to go back to.

not to mention the fact that external lascannon batteries is a horrible idea considering how badly they would devastate it if they were struck.

Too bad, because that's what the model shows. The lascannons are mounted in gun pods on the wing hardpoints, with their batteries included. The transport compartment is exactly the same as the Valkyrie's.


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 viewfinder wrote:
so by that logic my Land Raiders should have the same capacity as my Land Raider Crusaders?

No, because the LR has internal power for the lascannons, as stated explicitly in the fluff, that the LRC removes to gain more transport capacity. Fluff-wise we can assume that the Vendetta's battery packs provide only a very limited number of shots and after a few strafing runs (the length of an average game) the Vendetta has to return to base to rearm, while tanks with lascannons as their primary weapons have much larger batteries (and even generators to recharge them) and can therefore remain in combat for much longer.

 Peregrine wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Which was a change from it's original incarnation.

What are you talking about? The Vendetta has one and only one previous incarnation: the 5th edition IG codex. There is no other version of its rules to go back to.

Perhaps he means the original concept of the IA 1 Valkyrie/Vulture of which the Vulture was the more heavily armed no-transport capacity version of the Valkyrie packing heaving weapons of better quality.

 WarOne wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Which was a change from it's original incarnation.

What are you talking about? The Vendetta has one and only one previous incarnation: the 5th edition IG codex. There is no other version of its rules to go back to.

Perhaps he means the original concept of the IA 1 Valkyrie/Vulture of which the Vulture was the more heavily armed no-transport capacity version of the Valkyrie packing heaving weapons of better quality.

But those weren't variants built on the same chassis. They were completely different designs.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 WarOne wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Which was a change from it's original incarnation.

What are you talking about? The Vendetta has one and only one previous incarnation: the 5th edition IG codex. There is no other version of its rules to go back to.

Perhaps he means the original concept of the IA 1 Valkyrie/Vulture of which the Vulture was the more heavily armed no-transport capacity version of the Valkyrie packing heaving weapons of better quality.

But those weren't variants built on the same chassis. They were completely different designs.

Possibly where the confusion lies.

this seems less a thread and more a jumbled mess of opinions.

To start:

'dettas were far too cheap at 130, but 150 and maintaining their model count would've been pretty good. Remember, kids, GW wants to sell you more models, not let you keep the ones you already have.

'kyries are pretty good at 125, they're not fantastic, but they're a pretty good anti-infantry flyer. They're outclassed by wyverns in terms of damage output. I'd take a valk for the grav chute, nothing more.

Chimeras are very nicely priced at 65. With 4 shots over the taurox, 1 better armour (huge as it knocks out Tau small arms fire, excluding small arms altogether), a Chimera with a dozer blade is a steal at 70 points. Sure, 60 would've been nice, but 70 is doable.

Now, stop looking at the bad things and look at some of the good things: veterans got cheaper, Tank Commanders are fantastic.

The vehicle now makes more internal sense as pointed out (razorbacks and land raider variants having different capacity for different armaments).

You can still haul around scions and special weapon teams for almost identical effect to the brainless, endless, hauling of veterans. You also now have a realised flying
option in the valk. Both might actually get played now.

Eh, the reduced carrying capacity doesn't really make sense. The Valk kit actually comes with battery packs that fit inside the crew area and they're huge compared to the battery packs for regular lascannons, also the wing lascannons on the Vend clearly has external power supplies.

I struggle to believe the "weight" thing as well, as Valkyries seem to be able to carry plenty of weight in their fluff.

It makes more sense that the Heavy Bolters would reduce transport capacity, but they don't.

Razorbacks make sense because the turret is mounted directly over the transport area and would certainly have to take up some room inside the vehicle, in addition to the ammunition it would need to carry.

The Vendetta/Valk model is one of the few ones that could genuinely physically fit 12 models in to it like it's rules say, lol.

The cries of outrage and tears of remorse over such a model is like a fine wine and aged cheese to my soul. Please! Continue the discussion!

/grabs more popcorn

Fliers only have so much lift capacity; if you strap on a ton in weapons, it makes sense to carry less in troops. A bit more realistic.

It was far too good at 130 points you got to exploit the fact it was an av12 flier with 3 lascannons for 2 years, now the party is over.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
The Vendetta is described as more of a Gunship with troop-carrying abilities, unlike the Vakyrie which is a transport ship, made sense to decrease the capacity.

No it doesn't. It was a stupid change because the model clearly has the same transport compartment as the Valkyrie, and the extra guns use external battery packs mounted on the gun pod.

Well, the Machine Spirits clearly intended only six passengers. If you attempt to cram more on, the Machine Spirits will spank you.

 Tamwulf wrote:
The cries of outrage and tears of remorse over such a model is like a fine wine and aged cheese to my soul. Please! Continue the discussion!

/grabs more popcorn

I really think you completely miss the tone of the discussion. No tears here, just calling out something that's stupid as being stupid

I'm happy enough having the Vendetta being nerfed, it was over powered and made the other FA choices silly... I just think the reduction in transport capacity was both unnecessary and illogical.

As an IG player, no tears at all, I'm glad I have a reason to take regular Valkyries and Vultures without feeling like I'm being stupid for taking something that is blatantly obviously worse, lol. Sorry to burst your "everyone is crying in outrage!" bubble though.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
The Vendetta is described as more of a Gunship with troop-carrying abilities, unlike the Vakyrie which is a transport ship, made sense to decrease the capacity.

No it doesn't. It was a stupid change because the model clearly has the same transport compartment as the Valkyrie, and the extra guns use external battery packs mounted on the gun pod.

Lascannon battery packs only hold a single charge, and need changing after every shot. The wing mountings probably contain capacitors, not batteries. It is not unreasonable to assume that extra weight and internal space is used up by extra capacitors, batteries or alternators. It is a shame that the conversion kit doesn't come with extra interior detail, but who would really want to pay for that?

The Vendetta was Stupidly undercosted for what it did.

I don't know about the drop in carrying capacity, but the increase in points cost is appropriate.

Makes perfect sense to me. You need more than battery packs to fire a weapon. Inside there are either servitors, cogitor banks and/or gunners. Those take room so less people to carry. Maybe it also carries spare battery packs. There's numerous reasons the transport capacity is lowered.
The chief reason being its not supposed to be a Valkyrie.

It doesn' t even matter. Sounds like you can still cram in three special weapons.