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I call it a hurt star because its not as good as a death star.

10 bullgryns, all with slab sheild and grenade launcher, with attached IG characters, and allied space marine chapter master with sheild eternal and goodies.

30 toughness 5 wounds with 3+ armor, with a chapter master tanking s10 nonsense.

Could this work?

Probably. You are looking at over 500 points though, with no transport.

Isnt there an order that lets them run really fast though? like 3d6 take tghe highest?

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
Isnt there an order that lets them run really fast though? like 3d6 take tghe highest?

That's Move! Move! Move!. You when you run you get to roll 3D6, and pick the highest.

I don't think you really need the SM character, either. There's just not that much S10 stuff out there, and it frees up ally requirement. Inquisitors would be cheaper, offer other cool force multipliers, and give you Hammerhand and the Liber Heresius to get scout. I think you upgrade at least a couple to Power Maul/Brute Shield in that case, for that S8 goodness. With a 12" deployment, 6" scout, 6" first turn move + (lets say) a 5" run, you're in charge range of your opponent's deployment zone turn 2. As someone who played Ogryns more than most in the previous codex, I'd say the weakest aspect of them is the 5+ armor save. The chance to increase that to 3+ is a big deal.

10 Bullgryn (460)
2 Power maul upgrades (30)
2 Priests (50)
Inquisitor, Psyker Mastery 1, Power Armor, Liber Heresius (78)

618 points, but super stompy and super tough.

Biophysical wrote:
I don't think you really need the SM character, either. There's just not that much S10 stuff out there.

Well...except Wraithknights, Wraithguard, and Wraithlords with a Ghostsword + VoT. Most Eldar lists I see include at least one of the options. The most common of the 3 (Wraithknight) can put out 8 STR 10 shots in a single turn. (2 From the cannons, 1 from HoW, 5 attacks on the charge) If you see a lot of Eldar in your meta, i would say it is worth taking a SE Captian or Chapter Master.

I suppose I don't see a lot of Eldar. I'm less concerned about the close combat S10. You should have a couple turns to pave the way with awesome firepower before you have to deal with that. The Ogryn are clearing objectives and breaking through infantry, in my book.

Only a 3+ save for that many points seems...Not wise, and easy to kill.

 troa wrote:
Only a 3+ save for that many points seems...Not wise, and easy to kill.

Remember that it is T5, meaning that it takes S10 to remove one model in one hit.

 troa wrote:
Only a 3+ save for that many points seems...Not wise, and easy to kill.

30 t5 wounds with 3+ armor is harder than you think. 30 toughness 5 marines....

You need to able to outflank or scout or infitrate these guys. Otherwise, meh.

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 troa wrote:
Only a 3+ save for that many points seems...Not wise, and easy to kill.

30 t5 wounds with 3+ armor is harder than you think. 30 toughness 5 marines....

that are very vulnerable to ID. Yes it does only come from Str10 and things that specifically cause ID. Like GK and a lot of Daemon/CSM items.


Further, are 30 T5 marines really that hard to kill. Are 30 plague marines(with their FNP) that hard to kill? Are 30 biker marines that hard to kill? Now think about the offensive potential. 30 plague marines might be rocking 12 plasma guns and a bunch of bolters. 30 biker marines might again, be rocking 12 plasma guns and a bunch of twinlinked bolters. are 10 frag grenade launchers scary?

 Exergy wrote:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 troa wrote:
Only a 3+ save for that many points seems...Not wise, and easy to kill.

30 t5 wounds with 3+ armor is harder than you think. 30 toughness 5 marines....

that are very vulnerable to ID. Yes it does only come from Str10 and things that specifically cause ID. Like GK and a lot of Daemon/CSM items.


Further, are 30 T5 marines really that hard to kill. Are 30 plague marines(with their FNP) that hard to kill? Are 30 biker marines that hard to kill? Now think about the offensive potential. 30 plague marines might be rocking 12 plasma guns and a bunch of bolters. 30 biker marines might again, be rocking 12 plasma guns and a bunch of twinlinked bolters. are 10 frag grenade launchers scary?

10 frag grenades are not scary.
40 WS4 S5 attacks on the charge (which, if there is a priest, may rerolls failed hits and wounds) + 10 S5 HoW, are.

 Exergy wrote:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 troa wrote:
Only a 3+ save for that many points seems...Not wise, and easy to kill.

30 t5 wounds with 3+ armor is harder than you think. 30 toughness 5 marines....

that are very vulnerable to ID. Yes it does only come from Str10 and things that specifically cause ID. Like GK and a lot of Daemon/CSM items.


Further, are 30 T5 marines really that hard to kill. Are 30 plague marines(with their FNP) that hard to kill? Are 30 biker marines that hard to kill? Now think about the offensive potential. 30 plague marines might be rocking 12 plasma guns and a bunch of bolters. 30 biker marines might again, be rocking 12 plasma guns and a bunch of twinlinked bolters. are 10 frag grenade launchers scary?

1: thats why I suggested a tanking chapter master to tank those insta gib wounds.
2: Big difference is that the bullgryn arent there for there guns, there there to assault the out of the enemy and soak up shots as they do it. And the bullgryn anrt as slow as youd think with the mmm order

On the charge, prescienced Seekers will kill 4 of them first turn, bullgryns will return fire and kill 5. Seekers kill 2 more next round, bullgryns kill 3. Seekers kill 2 more, bullgryns kill 2, seekers finish it off with ten models left.

Yeh, not too concerned as a daemon player.

EDIT- With a shield eternal CM, the chapter master and one ogryn will die first turn, instead of 4 ogryns. The end result is more or less the same though.

Well ya thats vs a screemer star tho xD

A screamer-star needs to have screamers and a grimoire in it.

A squad of seekers has neither. =o

 BlaxicanX wrote:
A screamer-star needs to have screamers and a grimoire in it.

A squad of seekers has neither. =o

lol
Well then dont forget the grenade lauchers they have :p

The bullgryn's #1 competition in the new dex is 50 guardsmen blob + 50 conscripts cost the exact same amount as 10 bullgryns. They both go nuts with the bonus from a priest.

The blob's more vulnerable to small arms while the bulls are more vulnerable to ID and debuffs like rad grenades.

The swarms has more potential offensive power, but the bulls are less spread out and concentrate their power in a smaller portion of the table.

The bullgryns would be a lot easier to play and paint, but the swarm is scoring units.

Right now I'm leaning towards the swarm because they are scoring units.

 schadenfreude wrote:
The bullgryn's #1 competition in the new dex is 50 guardsmen blob + 50 conscripts cost the exact same amount as 10 bullgryns. They both go nuts with the bonus from a priest.

I know which one I'd rather paint... or move, for that matter.

Yes, move those T3 models straight into FRFSRF range. That sounds effective

IG in general are very good at anti-deathstar, they can give an entire blob precision shots and eventually the grimour herald will fail his LOS, and with only 2 wounds he isn't very safe when we also factor in barrage from the Wyvern,

As for this deathstar, i think it lacks the speed or reach to be up there with the best such as the Farsight Bomb or Seerstar all the while keeping all Deathstar weaknesses such as a lot of points and only being able to kill a single unit a turn.

I'm having a hard time liking the large-shield ogryn, myself. The problem is that their killing power is just so crummy. Yeah, regular ogryn and big shield ogryn hit the same in close combat, but regular ogryn do a much, much better job shooting first. 10 assault heavy bolters is better than 10 lobbed frag grenades by a long, long shot. Meanwhile, the small shield ogryn get +2S, Ap4, and shred on HoW.

The big-shield ogryn do get Sv3+, but it can be broken up (especially in close combat, which is a serious problem), but I don't know if it's better than the 5++ that you get with the small shields. Yes, you can give big-shield ogryn a 4++ through other means, but you have to pay for those other means, they're not always reliable (don't always roll the right spell, don't always pass the psychic test, etc.), and you have to pay even more for them. And on units that can get picked out by precise shots.

So, the question is is it better to go with regular ogryn or maul ogryn? Regular ogryn are obviously easier to kill, especially with those scary hard-counter units (S10, yes, but also everything DE, etc.), but they also are more flexible. After all, prescience is now an easy thing to add into the squad, and 30 TL S5 attacks could do bonkers damage.

Plus, it's only 485 points for 10 ogryn, a priest, and a psyker. That's rather cheaper than the other option. Of course, it's not just about S5 attacks. Punishers can do this for 3/5ths the price, but they can't then follow it up with close combat, and can't contest objectives, etc.

The mace ones seem pretty beaty, of course, but they're also expensive at 685 points. S7 means they can threaten vehicles and monstrous creatures, but I wonder, is it worth the price? The main problem is that the loss of versatility hurts them like it hurts assault marines. They waste 685 points every turn they're not in close combat, and they don't do a single other thing, while at least regular ogryn and big shield ogryn shoot (and big shield ogryn shield).

I guess on the one hand, what do maul ogryn do well that regular ogryn don't, and on the other hand, why do you need regular ogryn if they're sort of just concentrated guardsmen?

Because you have cool conversions for Ogryn.

Yeah, not really tactics. Maybe because you play games with time limits?

Well, let's think about it this way. What high-profile things is a big pile of ogryn going to be good against?

Are they going to beat nob bikers? Are they beating a screamerstar? Are they going to make it to the other side of the board and beat up riptides?

I know they're not doing bupkis against wave serpent spam in any configuration. I can say that much, at least.

I say make this happen. You'll find the right balance as you go, but this really gives the units behind it serious help too. wonder what the rest of the list would be. Hmm...

Not sure if you can benefit from a Run-Run-Run order if you have chapter master attached to a squad.

Well heres a go at a list

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/589724.page

 felixcat wrote:
You need to able to outflank or scout or infitrate these guys. Otherwise, meh.

Outflank from the wrong side, small percentage but possible. Infiltrate would be the best choice.

This unit is generally too slow. Faster armies will run circles around it.

Or deepstrike via sevren loth

Its an interesting idea and will look ace on the table... but i think blob squads are such a strong choice, especially with all the psychic power tricks you can bring, that they are too good to leave at home and probably perform this role more efficiently.

George