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Hi forum, I've been recently building up a mortar and lascannon HWT for my Valhallans, is the 6th ed codex kind to these units still?

Thanks in advance.

They're unchanged.

same cost and rules as in the previous codex. Build away

Thanks for the advise guys

The wyvern artillery tank is only 65 points, and is the equivalent of 4 mortars with twinlinked and shredding.

Yeah, not much point to the 3-mortar HWS when there's now a 4-mortar HWS that gets AV12. They still score, though, I guess.

Also, the mortars can take orders which means... tank hunter?

I don't really want the wyvern when i already have mortars, as you say they can take orders and if worst comes to worse i can use them to capture stuff.

Well mortars have a few advantages, although I'm not trying to say they are better:

- Easier to hide out of LoS.
- Smaller footprint against blasts.
- Last about a nanosecond longer in CC.
- Score.
- Slightly cheaper.
- Don't use a heavy slot.
- Can take orders.

tau tse tung wrote:I don't really want the wyvern when i already have mortars, as you say they can take orders and if worst comes to worse i can use them to capture stuff.

Well, and that's the problem with wyverns. You never really need them. For most people that probably won't be because they have mortar HWSs, but still...

Trickstick wrote:- Last about a nanosecond longer in CC.

lol

... true...

...

 Trickstick wrote:

- Score.
- Don't use a heavy slot.

I'd narrow the list to this.

S4 shred just isn't good enough. Sure it's cheap, but if I'm using a heavy slot, I'm going to take either the S10 or the S6 AP3 ignore cover.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote: Sure it's cheap, but if I'm using a heavy slot, I'm going to take either the S10 or the S6 AP3 ignore cover.

Which S6 Ap3 ignores cover option in the HS slot was that?

Yeah, gonna have to agree with Ailaros here. The last thing I know that was S6 AP3 ignore cover was the Colossus and that was removed this time around if I'm not mistaken. Unless he's using FW rules of course in which case why wouldn't you take the CRASSUS ARMOURED TRANSPORT instead?

 Ailaros wrote:

HawaiiMatt wrote: Sure it's cheap, but if I'm using a heavy slot, I'm going to take either the S10 or the S6 AP3 ignore cover.

Which S6 Ap3 ignores cover option in the HS slot was that?

I'm guessing he's referring to the Colossi

Maybe the Leman Russ Eradicator..but that's actually str6 AP4 ignore cover.

The failure to fix mortars (which have been bad in seven straight iterations) is one of inexplicable things about being an IG player.

Seeing the Wyvern, it's clear that GW understands how to make Mortars decent, they just choose not to. My conspiracy theory: since Mortars are basically "free" with every Heavy weapon team sprue, they know that making them even remotely playable won't lead to any increase in sales.

 Polonius wrote:
The failure to fix mortars (which have been bad in seven straight iterations) is one of inexplicable things about being an IG player.

Seeing the Wyvern, it's clear that GW understands how to make Mortars decent, they just choose not to. My conspiracy theory: since Mortars are basically "free" with every Heavy weapon team sprue, they know that making them even remotely playable won't lead to any increase in sales.

But you get all the Heavy weapons on the sprue ?

You get the actual heavy weapons, but the Heavy Bolter, Autocannon, and Lascannon all share a mounting tripod and crew arms, meaning you can really only build one of them.

However, you can build one of the above, and still be able to build a mortar, which uses a bipod, and a missile launcher, which is shoulder mounted.

Coincidentally, the two least useful heavy wepaons are the Missile Launcher and Mortar,

 Ailaros wrote:

HawaiiMatt wrote: Sure it's cheap, but if I'm using a heavy slot, I'm going to take either the S10 or the S6 AP3 ignore cover.

Which S6 Ap3 ignores cover option in the HS slot was that?

Colossus/Griffon/Medusa are still valid heavy options via Imperial Armour: Volume One (2nd Ed).
But you're quite right they're not a standard Codex option.

Not that 40k is realistic or anything, but the badness of mortars is so frustrating to me because mortars are consistently one of the most dangerous weapons to an infantryman in modern warfare. I think it will never be changed, though, because it's sort of a "yardstick" stat. Like the bolter and lasgun, it's a "common" weapon, so it's the baseline for every barrage.

The problem with mortars isn't a problem with mortars per se, just like the problem with heavy bolters isn't a problem with heavy bolters.

The problem that both of these have is that 40k has migrated away from its roots as an infantry battle game. Even as recently as 4th edition, you probably had targets for your mortars, and heavy bolters had value, if rather thin.

But then 5th came by and made transports not deathtraps and suddenly every unit in the game got meched up, especially as codices changed and removed the old transport restrictions that armies used to have. And then 6th edition came by with fliers, and now superheavies, and there has been a long line of new codices getting more and bigger monstrous creatures.

The problem with mortars isn't that they got worse, but that armies have been getting stronger over time. Now a heavy weapon that can't take down a riptide, wraithknight, helldrake, baneblade or knight is a weapon that you've probably just got to leave on the shelf.

I've built more lascannons than all other guard heavy weapons combined, and I have more meltaguns than all the other special weapons I've built 3 or 4 times over. It's not because I don't like heavy bolters or flamers, but because the game seriously discourages these weapons thanks to the meta.

The correct solution isn't to make the heavy bolter Ap3 and the mortar S7, the correct solution is to make transports a serious risk again that you actually had to think about before you took, and to change the rules so that there was more infantry on the table.

... but as none of that's actually going to happen...

Eh, even in third the mortars and heavy bolters may have had targets, but they still weren't very good at their jobs.