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I've been running DC with Reclus for liturgies of the blood

Re roll to hit and wound is amazing on the charge
Against other H2H units it's perfect

Against a non shooty squad it's over kill




Libby I can get prescience still get the re rolls to hit but can the buffs of another spell

Reclus has better stats but is 30 points more

Thoughts and reasons for it?

I thought this thread was titled "Reecius vs Libby" I am now disappoint :(

Martel should be along soon to illuminate you on your codex's inadequacy.

I think the commonly held belief is that the Libby is the closest to a good buy in the HQ section of the BA book.

Nah, he didn't like my answer in the army list section probably and so he's here. There are essentially two HQs in the BA book: level 1 libby and Mephiston. All the others might as well not exist.

Ive used both many times before and would have to agree, the libby is definitely the better buy.

The reclusiarch is nice in combat, I liked him for his 4++, but the rerolls to hit and wound in combat became major overkill. I quickly found out my DC(when i actually run them, which isnt often anymore) would still dominate without a chaplain at all.

The libby is just a better HQ choice and has more utility.

Divination or SoS. Both force multipliers. Too bad there is so much ignores cover and the BA don't have that many great targets for prescience.

default to take is prescience? if you were to pick prescience + another Blood Angel spell, what would be the optimal one to take?

BloodAngels1988 wrote:
default to take is prescience? if you were to pick prescience + another Blood Angel spell, what would be the optimal one to take?

You can't mix codex and CRB powers. You take SoS and something like Sword of Sanguinus or roll on divination twice. But for a bad roll, you can take prescience instead. If it's not clear, you cast prescience before you move, and the target unit rerolls to hit rolls in all phases until YOUR next turn. That's one shooting phase and potentially two assault phases. That's crazy better than the Reclusiarch buff. Especially if you get assaulted. Because I assault DC all the time against other BA, since they become kinda losers if they get assaulted.

Libby over Reclusiarch every time. This is coming from someone who plays against Blood Angels regularly with both IG and Grey Knights. The Reclus is so much overkill against anything other than a totally dedicated CC unit, and after one turn of assault (if they even make it there), I just shoot the crap out of them.

The libby has access to awesome BRB powers, and can help you in far more than assault. The Reclus is a one trick overkill pony that likes to be instant deathed by my GK force weapons every time we play (seriously, like 5 times now, it's hilarious).

As I noted, Reclusiarch does NOTHING if your unit happens to be assaulted.

Another thing that works well with the libby is to stack a unit with libby, sarge, and priest all with power axes and deny all challenges. You still get two axes swinging.

The points are well taken, I was just wanted other players perspective and yes, the logic is sound. Libby provides way more options and at a cheaper price.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Martel, I don't know if you can answer this. No one could answer it on another post I had made.

I played a game recently where my Stormraven performed the move "Skies of Fury" it's the deal where you disembark/deepstrike while zooming. So I had 10 man assault squad and dread disembark/deepstrike at any point over where the Stormraven traveled. (2 5 man assault squads cause of combat squad)

The first dreadnought and 5 man assault squad scattered just fine. The final 5 man assault squad scattered onto the base of the storm raven that had dropped them off! I couldn't find anything in the rule book or FAQ that would keep them alive if you are using deep strike rules as it says. I reluctantly removed the squad as a deepstrike mishap as it states if any model can't be deployed the entire squad is removed and you can't deepstrike within 1 inch of a friendly model.

I was trying that it's "disembarking" not a true deep strike but for the sake of the game I just removed them. Was this done correctly?

Skies of Fury forces you to use the deep strike rules. This is why you have to be very careful where you deep strike. However, I think in this case, you would roll on the table, just as if you had deviated into a building or some such thing. Oh wait, this is combined with disembarking, however. Yeah, they are probably all dead. This is why I skies of fury into open areas. Yeah, it is covered under skies of fury actually. Shows you how much I use that with BA.

Generally in this game, the fewer dice you roll for stuff like deep strike, the better. I very rarely deep strike and I NEVER put anything I care about on a Raven. Sometimes TH/SS terminators, but since imperial knights, I quit using that list.

Gota be honest...Given I never really looked at prescience, this thread actually gave much better illumination as to why the Libby is a good choice.

lol right. I believe I rolled like an 11 inches onto that spot, the only area where they would have the DS mishap.

Thanks for the opinion/confirmation

It made me kinda mad that Imperial Knights can just D-slap my TH/SS terminators around. Another marine unit invalidated. It's also unfortunate that the brokenness of divination invalidates the Reclusiarch. I don't enjoy this fact, yet I can not deny it.

I consider non-drop pod deep strike to be pretty much a failure for the EXACT problem that you had. The deep strike mishap table is bad enough, but jumping out of a flyer raises the stakes much higher.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 troa wrote:
Gota be honest...Given I never really looked at prescience, this thread actually gave much better illumination as to why the Libby is a good choice.

Prescience in theory would benefit a list like marines the best, since we theoretically will get the most rerolls, but getting into assault is such a bitch against Xenos.

Sorry to deviate here a bit, but Martel what does your current BA list look like? I have shelved mine for the past 6+ months but am wanting to pick them back up again. Toyed around with some lists and it got pretty depressing fast. The force just seem so light for what you can get with their high points costs.

Scoring units seems to be my biggest issue. Full 10 man assault squads cost a lot and do a little. Razorspam is..well....razorspam.

Now I am thinking possible allies but I am usually not a huge fan of allies. Primarily for reasons such as Taudar. But for BA's to get some cheap scoring troops it seems almost necessary.

I've revised the list slightly and have 62 points to spare.

Would it be better to have a land speeder with 2 heavy flamers = 60 points

Or I can put a Priest in an assault squad with a rhino (no jump packs, has to be 9 models, which would give me a priest with an extra 28 points (model + melta gun is lost adding a priest.

which means i could put the priest in and have 40 points to spare

Or would I better off trimming off fat on other squads to add a vindicator.

 Rezyn wrote:
Sorry to deviate here a bit, but Martel what does your current BA list look like? I have shelved mine for the past 6+ months but am wanting to pick them back up again. Toyed around with some lists and it got pretty depressing fast. The force just seem so light for what you can get with their high points costs.

Scoring units seems to be my biggest issue. Full 10 man assault squads cost a lot and do a little. Razorspam is..well....razorspam.

Now I am thinking possible allies but I am usually not a huge fan of allies. Primarily for reasons such as Taudar. But for BA's to get some cheap scoring troops it seems almost necessary.

I have three primary lists. Hybrid drop pod/jumper, mass mech, and Raven spam. Yes, BA are horribly overcosted for 6th, and no matter how you rearrange the deck chairs you are lacking somewhere. And it's hard to swallow that against all the shooting. I have been using them as counts-as Iron Hands more and more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BloodAngels1988 wrote:
I've revised the list slightly and have 62 points to spare.

Would it be better to have a land speeder with 2 heavy flamers = 60 points

Or I can put a Priest in an assault squad with a rhino (no jump packs, has to be 9 models, which would give me a priest with an extra 28 points (model + melta gun is lost adding a priest.

which means i could put the priest in and have 40 points to spare

Or would I better off trimming off fat on other squads to add a vindicator.

Vindicators have become progressively more useless in 6th ed. They don't crack death stars, can't shoot fliers, and are easily hull pointed out from the side by mass S6/7 shooting.

I've experienced that as well Martel. Armor 13 is great, but 11 on the side which is all too easy to hit after turn 1

BloodAngels1988 wrote:
I've experienced that as well Martel. Armor 13 is great, but 11 on the side which is all too easy to hit after turn 1

Also, looking at the armor diagram for 40K the side is a HUGE target. I really prefer preds with 48" guns that can keep their front toward the enemy much longer. And can snap fire fliers in a pinch. Although, I have prescienced autolas preds and shot down quite a few fliers. Las cannon hits are very bad for pretty much all fliers in the game.

At the end of the day, though, BA and marines in general have a lot of bad choices for heavy firepower. The choices that ARE good get spammed to death, ala thunderfire and grav cent. And grav cents need to be death stared because naked they are merely decent.

100% agree

Question on Prescience + twin linked.

Lets say you are firing at a flyer with said predator with a twin linked lascannon. You need a 6 to hit. you re roll your first dice cause it's twin linked. With perscience, you reroll it all again potentially if you didn't hit on that 3rd dice. So you potenitally have 4 dice rolls with a twin linked weapon firing 1 shot to hit. Correct?

I think the base rules outlaw multiple rerolls. I know that doesn't work, but I think it's a CRB issue.

So for said example, about twin-linked getting a rerolls, you would only get a max of 3 dice rolls vs 4 instead

You may only re-roll a dice once regardless of how many sources grant you a re-roll.

So if your tank only had twin-linked weaponry Prescience is a wasted spell on it. However it is a large boon to a Autocannon/Lascannon Predator.

gotcha

Wow, am I the only person who loves the reclusiarch? I run one at 1850 and below all the time, with a power fist and jump pack. I don't even run him with death company, just a regular assault marine squad. For 45 points more than a jump pack libby, you get a far better statline, a 4++, an init 5 str6 ap4 weapon, an init 1 str8 ap2 weapon, fearless, and rerolls to hit. I started using him a while ago over a libby and have never looked back. The librarian is just wayyyy too over priced.

I swear ya'll are narrow minded when it comes to listening to the interwebz. Like i know that almost all of you will say that Dante is bad, even though for 225 points you get a chapter master with decent wargear, a pretty good force org swap, who gives your squad tactcal precision and hit and run, AND DERPS AN ENEMY CHARACTER BEFORE THE GAME STARTS. Yeah. Really bad.

Play the units and make your own observation. Things that everyone else calls bad may shock the hell outta you.

The Librbarian might be overpriced, but Fear the Darkness can be game winning, and Unleashed Rage is so much better than Liturgies of Blood that it's not funny.

And Dante is bad because he swings at I1 and lacks Eternal Warrior so he gets punked by swrgeants with power fists and Nobz with power klaws.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
The Librbarian might be overpriced, but Fear the Darkness can be game winning, and Unleashed Rage is so much better than Liturgies of Blood that it's not funny.

And Dante is bad because he swings at I1 and lacks Eternal Warrior so he gets punked by swrgeants with power fists and Nobz with power klaws.

Preferred enemy is significantly worse when you can only use it in the assault phase, and rerolling 1s is less impactful than rerolling all failed rolls to hit, particularly against things like daemon princes and their ilk, whom you will probably hit on 5s anyways. Fear is a strong power, though. I still prefer the captain statline with the added squad buffs.

And Dante swings at i1 with an AP2 weapon, which is signifficantly harder to find these days. Or, against damons or anything else that relies on an invuln instead of armor, he can hit at initiative 6 with his pistol. So he lacks EW. So do most HQs. A sgt with a fist has less than a 40% chance of acing Dante, but tell me this, when was the last time you EVER saw a fist sarge in a half way decent list? Or any str8+ close combat weapon on anything that wasnt a nob as far as troop leaders go. He has a small chance of getting killed by something that barely exists. Moot point.

The fact that you think that Dante is worth 225 pts is all I really need to know about your BA acumen. If Dante is doing anything in your games, you are playing opponents that aren't trying very hard.

"Wow, am I the only person who loves the reclusiarch?"

No, but all those who use the Reclusiarch is crippling their own list.

" The librarian is just wayyyy too over priced. "

Divination is well worth it. And libby is still cheaper than the Reclusiarch, and does more for your list. Prescience trumps every benefit you get from a Reclusiarch.

"Play the units and make your own observation."

I have, and the Reclusiarch and Dante both suck. The only viable BA HQs are level 1 libby and Meph, unfortunately.

"which is signifficantly harder to find these days"

No, they are not. All my sergeants, priests, and libbies have one.

Martel732 wrote:
The fact that you think that Dante is worth 225 pts is all I really need to know about your BA acumen. If Dante is doing anything in your games, you are playing opponents that aren't trying very hard.

"Wow, am I the only person who loves the reclusiarch?"

No, but all those who use the Reclusiarch is crippling their own list.

Indeed. I play Nids, Wolves and Guard and they all have choices which aren't necessarily *bad*, but taking them hurts your list. Like, Swarmlord is a combat beast, but at 285pts he's ridiculously expensive. Logan Grimnar is freaking amazing in every game I have taken him in (he single-handedly killed a tooled up Bloodthirster and Daemon Prince in one game), but at 275pts I would never take him in a regular list. Sergeant Harker is okay if you want a mobile heavy bolter with rending, but who the hell would ever spend 55pts for that, especially when he no longer provides anything for the squad (for the record, you could almost buy another squad of Veterans for that cost)?

Basically, some units may be actually alright, but are made redundant by blindingly obvious choices (eg, Grey Hunters vs Blood Claws), or are way too expensive to be even considered (eg, Lemartes).

Martel732 wrote:
The fact that you think that Dante is worth 225 pts is all I really need to know about your BA acumen. If Dante is doing anything in your games, you are playing opponents that aren't trying very hard.

"Wow, am I the only person who loves the reclusiarch?"

No, but all those who use the Reclusiarch is crippling their own list.

" The librarian is just wayyyy too over priced. "

Divination is well worth it. And libby is still cheaper than the Reclusiarch, and does more for your list. Prescience trumps every benefit you get from a Reclusiarch.

"Play the units and make your own observation."

I have, and the Reclusiarch and Dante both suck. The only viable BA HQs are level 1 libby and Meph, unfortunately.

"which is signifficantly harder to find these days"

No, they are not. All my sergeants, priests, and libbies have one.

So you pay 25 points per squad for a str8 weapon that may or may not be used, and on a 2a base model to boot? Wow bro. You're really qualified to judge me. And if youre talking about power axes, i understand that on the libby, but don't on a tactical sergeant.

Breaking down Dante's cost numerically, we find that his stat line is worth about 130 points. The jump pack, pistol, and axe are 15 each, and the artificer armor is 20. The normal death mask is about 5, bringing us to 200 points even. This means that the hit and run, tactical precision, enemy IC nerf and force org swap are all crammed into the last 25 points. Seems pretty efficient.

And the additional ballistic skill, wound, initiative, and attack on the reclusiarch make him worthit. And everyone here seems to be talking about both the book and codex powers on the libby. If you could mix the two, it wouldnt even be an argument as to who was better. But you can't.

And Mephiston is definitely the best HQ in the book.