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In the new Guard Codex, the Boltgun upgrade for officers and sergeants has been reduced to 1pt. This doubles their range and gives the squad a boost in shooting at the ranges they're more comfortable at.

So...


Is there any reason NOT to take this upgrade by default?



(sorry if this has come up before but the search function is down)

Not having spare bolter bitz I'd say...

Nope, no reason at all that I could see. I suppose it's a fair trade; sergeants can't get lasguns, but they get the far more superior bolter, so it works out.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
far more superior

Really?

And yes, that is a good deal.

And for the same price as the old Codex, you get a boltgun AND a bolt pistol as well!

 Overlord Thraka wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
far more superior

Really?

And yes, that is a good deal.

Boltgun = S4 AP5

Lasgun = S3 AP-

Boltguns can hurt AV10
Boltguns can ignore 5+ and 6+ saves
Boltguns wound T4 on a 4+ as opposed to a 5+

Much superior.

By no means required, they are a great way to kill those last few points you may find laying around. Not required if you need something else, but handy and a steal of a deal.If your limited on how many to hand out, priority should be higher BS models like officers and vet sarges.

5 bolters is definitely a better investment than a grenade launcher, but I wouldn't want to buy them first thing. That's something I would use to eat up the last few points in a list.

My vets will probably get them since my sarges can't take shotguns for some stupid reason

If you want more cheap bolters you can take an inquisitor and bring up to three squads of acolytes with bolters. Each costs exactly as much as a guardsman and has the same stat line.

I have found bolters on my sgts to be worth every freaking penny.


here is why:

precision shots... there are a LOOOOT of squishy t3 buff comanders (tau eldar other ect) or special weapons or non independant chars where a well placed bolt or two can really hamper the enemy.

coupled with sniper rifles in the command squads, or mobbing up with plattoons to get 5 sgts in the squad, and you can realistically be taking off models of your choice fairly often.

that is all in addition to only paying 1 pts to replace the las pistol, looking super cool, and giving you a chance to actually use all the metal models for sgts that have bolters that you bought two codexes ago when they were an option.

With FRFSRF 2 flashlight shots are superior to 1 bolter shot at 12-24" when shooting T3,T4.

At 12" or less they are equal when shooting T4, but the flashlights are better against T3

Without FRFSRF the bolt gun is far superior.

The final verdict really comes down to some bolter shots with precision shots is far better than an extra S3 CC attack., but not as good a S4 power axe. Unless you're planning to blow 15 points on a power axe go with the bolter.

 schadenfreude wrote:
With FRFSRF 2 flashlight shots are superior to 1 bolter shot at 12-24" when shooting T3,T4.

At 12" or less they are equal when shooting T4, but the flashlights are better against T3

Sergeants and officers can't get lasguns. Anyone with a lasgun can't take a bolter. So your comparisons aren't appropriate.

And you don't always get FRF. And, as noted, lasguns never hurt vehicles.

Really, the upgrade to a real shooting weapon is probably worth it in and of itself, as 6 points for a guardsman with a bolter isn't a bad deal.

Where it really shines, though, is Ap5 precise shot. That's something regular lasguns don't do.

I didn't even notice that Sergeants got access to boltguns. Wowzers.

Now i'm picturing modeling that only for it to disappear next codex. That'll suck, but I'm still going to do it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also semi-related:

Priests can get autoguns for free and don't give up a weapon to do it.

 daedalus wrote:
I didn't even notice that Sergeants got access to boltguns. Wowzers.

Now i'm picturing modeling that only for it to disappear next codex. That'll suck, but I'm still going to do it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also semi-related:

Priests can get autoguns for free and don't give up a weapon to do it.

It's because one of the priest model on the GW site got an autogun in his pack, just as the other Priest model got a plasmagun; but can't really give that weapon for free..

 daedalus wrote:
I didn't even notice that Sergeants got access to boltguns. Wowzers.

Now i'm picturing modeling that only for it to disappear next codex. That'll suck, but I'm still going to do it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also semi-related:

Priests can get autoguns for free and don't give up a weapon to do it.

Aren't atuoguns identical to lasguns in every way except name?

 spartanghost wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
I didn't even notice that Sergeants got access to boltguns. Wowzers.

Now i'm picturing modeling that only for it to disappear next codex. That'll suck, but I'm still going to do it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also semi-related:

Priests can get autoguns for free and don't give up a weapon to do it.

Aren't atuoguns identical to lasguns in every way except name?

Autoguns dont work with FRFSRF

 spartanghost wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
I didn't even notice that Sergeants got access to boltguns. Wowzers.

Now i'm picturing modeling that only for it to disappear next codex. That'll suck, but I'm still going to do it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also semi-related:

Priests can get autoguns for free and don't give up a weapon to do it.

Aren't atuoguns identical to lasguns in every way except name?

Yup, and they're listed only in the BRB, not even in the Codex as well...

Inquisitor Jex wrote:

 spartanghost wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
I didn't even notice that Sergeants got access to boltguns. Wowzers.

Now i'm picturing modeling that only for it to disappear next codex. That'll suck, but I'm still going to do it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also semi-related:

Priests can get autoguns for free and don't give up a weapon to do it.

Aren't atuoguns identical to lasguns in every way except name?

Yup, and they're listed only in the BRB, not even in the Codex as well...

also, if Chaos cultists are any indication, autoguns seem to cost more.

They don't cost more... 5 pts for a cultists with an autogun, 5 pts for a gaurdsmen.

 Chaos Rising wrote:
They don't cost more... 5 pts for a cultists with an autogun, 5 pts for a gaurdsmen.

with no orders
or grenades
or free sergeant
worse armor

10 IG with lasguns, sergeant, grenades, 5+ armor is 50 points
10 Culstists with autoguns, champion, 6+ armor is 60 points

Yes, but cultists have a worse armor save, no access to special weapons, and no access to guard orders. His point is that cultists, given their other crapulence, should cost 3 points apiece, which means the autogun is 2 points, to the guardsman's 4 points +1 for the lasgun.

Of course, it's kind of silly, because points are based off of a lot of stuff (guardsmen can't be a shield for an AoBF lord, for example), not just kit.

 Ailaros wrote:

Of course, it's kind of silly, because points are based off of a lot of stuff (guardsmen can't be a shield for an AoBF lord, for example), not just kit.

This a million times over. To forget this would put us back in the dark ages of the Grey Knight threads...

 Ailaros wrote:
Yes, but cultists have a worse armor save, no access to special weapons, and no access to guard orders. His point is that cultists, given their other crapulence, should cost 3 points apiece, which means the autogun is 2 points, to the guardsman's 4 points +1 for the lasgun.

Of course, it's kind of silly, because points are based off of a lot of stuff (guardsmen can't be a shield for an AoBF lord, for example), not just kit.

Really i just think cultists should get the autogun for free when they trade in the CC weapon and pistol.
A cultist with Pistol and CC is alright at 4 points
A cultist with an autogun is kinda expensive at 5 points, especially when a conscript with a lasgun is 3 points.

And all chaos champions should be free, with their craptastic Champions of Chaos rule.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ailaros wrote:

Of course, it's kind of silly, because points are based off of a lot of stuff (guardsmen can't be a shield for an AoBF lord, for example), not just kit.

I do agree with that to some degree, but with allies. Guardsmen can be a shield for a large number of melee beatsticks.

Can a guardsman serg have a power weapon and a bolter?

Yes.

 Sageheart wrote:
Can a guardsman serg have a power weapon and a bolter?

Yes.

At least for Infantry squads and PCS.
Sergeants can take a Ranged Weapons choice in place of the laspistol, and can swap the ccw for a power weapon.
Platoon Commanders get more choice.

There are a number of good reasons.

First boltguns add 2 S4AP5 shots to otherwise middling anti-infantry firepower. While effective in a blob squad, it's not useful to selectively spend points on a boltgun if you're having to remove upgrades for it.

If you're filling in 3 points, go for it. if you're removing an important upgrade for your leman russ for 5 boltguns, you're probably wasting your time.

Aren't cultists exactly the same stats-wise as acolytes from inquisitorial henchmen squads? (Except that the latter are only 4 points and get a 5+?)

I personally think the gave us the option just so we get them all converted and painted up just to take them away again next addition.

Seriously, I'm probably not going to hassle with converting them up. They won't make a large enough impact that I'll miss them if I don't include them, IMHO.