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Hey guys, I need some advice on points cost and balancing issues for my zombie game type, based in 40K.
Please give opinions, points cost changes and upgrade suggestions!

Silencers - 0.5 Points per weapon (Guns only, obviously) Must be taken on every weapon your model has except Flamers.
Extra Mastery Level - ??? Suggestions would be nice. Or should I do Mastery Level 3, X points. Mastery level 4 X points (Including the cost of ML 3)?
Extra Warp Charge and re-roll failed psychic tests - [Cost of a Power Fist] I am not listing the points value as this is an actual item from 40K
+1 Wound - 10pts
+1 Armour save - ???
Feel no Pain - ???

5 points each:
+1 WS
+1 BS
+1 Attack
+1 Ld
+ 1 Toughness

We don't really have enough context to say. How many points are your games supposed to be? What kind of layout is it? Is 10 points a lot in your game, or very little?

Pretty much what Curran said. What's the layout of your game?

The game is 400 points per player, designed for be 1-4 players, but you can play with more.

These are the restrictions on choices;

Force Organisation; 1 HQ, 0-5 Troops, 0-2 Elites, 0-2 Fast Attack, 0-2 Heavy Support. (Ordnance or large blast weapons may be taken, however they cannot be used/fired!)

Any vehicle that is not a walker cannot be taken (however a dedicated transport may be taken providing it is not a flier.

A player model can NEVER have or gain a toughness of 7 or over. Models that have more than this cannot be taken. Models that gain T7+ through abilities in game count as T6.

Player models may have a maximum of 4 wounds. Models that have more than this cannot be taken, models that gain more than 4 wounds count as having 4 wounds.

If any model that is not your HQ has the “Fearless” special rule, they have it removed.

Models with the ability to do so cannot fly. (They have to stay on the ground!)

Is that enough information?

Liquid, what do you mean by the layout of my game?

If Silencers must be taken on every gun there's not a lot of point to charging for them.

Extra Mastery level: Don't. Trying to stick generic Space Marine Librarians on equal footing with Eldrad Ultharan is just asking for long angry nerd-rage fluff arguments.

Extra Warp Charge: Why is this even remotely necessary? Why are Psykers so central that you want everyone to have access to five-Warp-Charge people?

Flat prices for stat increases: Impossible to balance (why is improving a Guard officer with 4+/5++ from three to four Wounds the same price as improving a Space Marine Terminator Captain with 2+/3++ from three to four wounds?), not to mention it could easily be meaningless depending on the zombie stats.

Do you suppose you could tell us a little more about your design goals here and why you need this upgrade system in the first place?

Pretty much how the game works - is it an objective style mission, is it skirmish, single model? Co-op or VS style arena matches? Literally how the game works.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
If Silencers must be taken on every gun there's not a lot of point to charging for them.

Originally the Zombies spawned depending on the weapon type (due to noise), I was thinking of a fluffy reason to get rid of it.
If I made this an optional upgrade and made the Zombie spawns come back, do you think it would be worth it?

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Extra Mastery level: Don't. Trying to stick generic Space Marine Librarians on equal footing with Eldrad Ultharan is just asking for long angry nerd-rage fluff arguments.

Okay, fair enough.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Extra Warp Charge: Why is this even remotely necessary? Why are Psykers so central that you want everyone to have access to five-Warp-Charge people?

Psykers aren't my central focus, though I'll admit I am a incredibly fond of them. I was thinking more so if you end up with a Warp Charge 1 and a Warp Charge 2 power. Or 2 Warp Charge 1's and want to use your force weapon.(assuming you cast all in one turn)

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Flat prices for stat increases: Impossible to balance (why is improving a Guard officer with 4+/5++ from three to four Wounds the same price as improving a Space Marine Terminator Captain with 2+/3++ from three to four wounds?), not to mention it could easily be meaningless depending on the zombie stats.

I will post the zombie stats in a spoiler just below, but what would you suggest for the prices of stat increases? Perhaps a percentage of the base model cost?
I do realise that a flat out cost is unbalanced, hence why I came here.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Do you suppose you could tell us a little more about your design goals here and why you need this upgrade system in the first place?

I wanted an upgrade system to give players the ability to give their units/models a little bit more power against the hoard. I don't want shooty armies to feel like they are useless because shooting spawns more zombies, this made combat armies quite an auto-win in older versions of my rules. But I don't want combat armies to be an auto-lose either.
I figured with silencers, shooty armies are better and Combat armies are unaffected. Additional upgrades are there to make it harder to kill your X point Ork boy/Space Marine/Necron Warrior, etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 liquidjoshi wrote:
Pretty much how the game works - is it an objective style mission, is it skirmish, single model? Co-op or VS style arena matches? Literally how the game works.

Ah, I see.
It's a co-op type game, and can turn to an "every man for himself" scenario in certain situations. You can't shoot at or kill another player model (intentionally...), You have to try and hold out on an extraction point until the end of turn 6 or 7 (I'm working on which turn works best)

I don't think appropriating the army selection mechanics of 40k is the right route here, from what you've said. I'd suggest digging up a copy of the old Kill-Team rules from the 4th edition core rulebook (not the one from Battle Missions, that one's nigh-useless), a lot of the ideas there on army selection and on implementing the zombies are much more relevant than taking normal 40k and building on top of it. The Bug Hunt scenario posted at http://fightingtigersofveda.com/SO6.html might also be an interesting place to look for ideas, but the army selection setup there is less sophisticated.

Ideal case your zombies are something that standard models can handle easily alone but can also get swamped by, adding stats on top of everything else is an unnecessary complication if the zombies are statted right.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
I don't think appropriating the army selection mechanics of 40k is the right route here, from what you've said. I'd suggest digging up a copy of the old Kill-Team rules from the 4th edition core rulebook (not the one from Battle Missions, that one's nigh-useless), a lot of the ideas there on army selection and on implementing the zombies are much more relevant than taking normal 40k and building on top of it. The Bug Hunt scenario posted at http://fightingtigersofveda.com/SO6.html might also be an interesting place to look for ideas, but the army selection setup there is less sophisticated.

Ideal case your zombies are something that standard models can handle easily alone but can also get swamped by, adding stats on top of everything else is an unnecessary complication if the zombies are statted right.

Alright, I'll go and look at that, and the link you sent me.
Thanks for the feedback.

For your spawning system, had you considered laying it out like cities of death & having the zombies spawn from the buildings? I had this idea a long while ago and never went anywhere with it, but the aim was simply to get across the board with as much as possible, whoever got the most across won. I could imagine getting the high-ground would also be a good option, as well as your extraction-point idea.

have you considered the idea of car alarms that you can shoot out to scupper your opponent? also I'd have bigger, tougher zombies, kinda like the tanks from left for dead.

I've become overcome with the desire to make a zombie ork army now... it'd be brilliant for a simple scale of small/medium/large/monster/walker zombies (grots/boys/nobs/bosses/kans & dreads)... hmm....


are you factoring in an "infected" result? basically if you suffer a wound from a zombie (even if saved) you have a chance of being infected, which then gives way to a chance you could turn. if you die, there's still the same thing but you'll be left behind as a corpse, of course.

Spawning from buildings is a good shout. I'd recommend checking out the board game called "Zombies" (no, really.) It's a lot of fun and will probably help you out with game design too.