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I'm just starting Lizardmen and thought I'd get a 2000 point list sorted so that I know what I'm building towards. Here's what I've come up with:


Saurus Old Blood - Carnosaur with Roar and Stride, Armour of Destiny, Dawn Stone, Other Trickster's Shard, Great Weapon

Tetto'eko
Skink Priest - Lv1 Heavens, Dispel Scroll
Skink Chief - BSB, Light Armour, Javelin, Enchanted Shield, Sword of Battle, Potion of Strength

14 x Skink Cohorts - Standard, Musician, 1 Kroxigor
19 x Skink Cohorts - Standard, Musician
19 x Skink Cohorts - Standard, Musician

10 x Skink Skirmishers - Javelins
10 x Skink Skirmishers - Javelins

9 x Chameleon Skinks

Bastiladon - Solar Engine

Ancient Stegadon - Sharpened Horns

Salamander - 4 Crew

1996pts

Skink Priest and Chief will be going in the 19 strong Cohort units deployed 10 wide for maximum shots. The Potion of Strength should hopefully let me surprise something that charges that unit with a S7 Javelin shot and then 4 S7 attacks in close combat at initiative 6/7.

Tetto would be deployed in the unit with the Kroxigor behind the main lines. The Kroxigor gives that unit some punch if something does manage to charge it but also increases the units leadership to 7 and means that fewer skinks are hit if he miscasts.

Salamander would be getting Vanguarded thanks to Tetto to get some early burning in and the Chameleon Skinks would be targetting any warmachines. If I face an opponent who castles up with warmchines Tetto will be throwing 6 dice at a boosted Comet to show them the error of their ways

Let me know what you think and if you have any suggestions. I love the Carnousaur model so that's the only thing that I'd like to keep, everything else I'm happy to change.

Howdo...
I like the look of your list!

I would only change a few things out of preference.

Dropping the sword of battle for sword of striking will make a +1 to hit and you will be able to take dragonhelm for points saved.

Change salamander for another unit of chameleons x6 and drop the other unit to 6 for smaller foot print. I have had better results with 2 smaller units than 1 bigger unit. Instead of vanguarding salamander get that carno into battle asap as well as the big steg. Pushing these big critters into your opponent early will give him something to think about...Spam comet behind his lines.

This will save you 50 pts that I would use on lv2 priest if you are thinking beasts as cast value is higher on sig spell and maybe amber spear if lucky. A good combo is Curse of Anraheir and Push from heavens. Its dirty, force that unit into a dangerous terrain test on 1 and 2s before his movement

This will leave you 29 points for more skinks or some poison on that bsb unit.

Hope this helps
Drew

Thanks for the reply

The Dragonhelm is magic armour so I wouldn't be able to take that along with the Enchanted Shield.

With the potential for 3 Vanguards I'd probably be looking to move up the Carnosaur and Stegadon aswell, the Salamander just has priority for the turn 1 flame attacks. It should provide a good distraction aswell as some much needed help against hordes so I'd be hesitant to drop it.

I'm over the core minimum though so I could drop 2 skinks from the Cohort unit that the Priests joining to change the Chameleon Skinks to 2 units of 5. They're just at 9 atm as that's the sweet spot for killing warmachines.

The Dragonhelm was instead of the shield but that's just a preference for the added amour save with +2 against flaming.

But I normally only take a chief mounted for more boost to amour save. Chief on ripper makes a good hunter and that little egg of Quango has saved me a few times.

A mounted chief is definitely something I want to try at some point but for this army I definitely need him as a BSB to help rally the skinks after they flee.

Just a few thoughts:

- That is a lot of points sunk into that Old Blood. T5 1+ re-rollable/4+ is pretty durable, but I wonder how often that'll matter, since the Carnosaur is the one I'm going after.
I'd consider the ASF sword, to potentially take out some models that might pose a threat to his mount.

- I've seen Skink/Krox units used to great effect with 11 Skinks and 1 Krox. Not enough points to be an overly-tempting target, but enough mass to bring some static CR and threaten a flank.

- why javelins, and not blowpipes?

- the Potion of Strength must be used at the start of the turn, so there's no surprising your opponent.
I'd prefer to see some magic armour to keep that little guy alive.

With a great weapon he's striking striking last at the same time as the Carnosaur's stomps. This means when he charges something and inevitably get's challenged by a champion the Carnosaur can attack first and get more overkill with it's D3 multiple wounds. At initiative 3 he's not going to be getting the rerolls from ASF very often and losing out on reroliing armour saves or the OTS plus a drop from S7 to S5 definitely wouldn't be worth it.

There's not much you can do about the durability of a Carnosaur, if someone wants to kill it they will do but it's T5 with 5 wounds and a 4+ so it's in better shape than a lot of things.

Javelins are better than blowpipes. It's as simple as that really. Quick to Fire means they're always standing and shooting with no penalty for movement. You're often in a situation with blowpipes where you're hitting on a 7 so that's no poison and with javs you're getting a 5+ and a 6+ parry. Blowpipes are only good on chameleons as they've got the higher BS.

As for the potion of Strength. It's pretty simple to get to use it. Just park the unit of skinks infront of an enemies unit (preferably some knights) Shoot them in your turn. Pop the potion in their turn and they can either charge you and get shot again + dealing with the S7 or just stand around doing nothing for a turn letting you dictate the movement phase. 20points to be able to do that is good in my book.

I just wonder how durable the Oldblood really needs to be. If the Carnosaur dies (and it will, if your opponent is smart enough to see that it is both the most threatening and most expensive thing on the board), I feel like it's only a matter of time before he follows suit.
And getting lots of overkill on a champion isn't going to be doing you much good 9 out of 10. Steadfast is Steadfast.

That's right. Blowpipes aren't quick to fire any more. Though I still don't understand how they've got Multiple Shots...
And Scaly Skin really does make shields worthwhile.

If those Skinks are facing off against knights, I don't think they're terribly worried about javelins. And if they do charge in, there's a good chance your Chief (whose high-priority anyway, since he's the BSB) will bite it that turn anyway. T3 W2 with a 3+ isn't exactly durable.

Surely you'd want him as durable as possible to minimise the chance of him giving up his points? Getting lots of overkill on a champion isn't about steadfast it's about stopping him from breaking from static combat res in the first round of combat.

I'm not saying they're going to be running forward at the start of the game and suiciding themselves. They're part of the skink cloud and will be avoiding combat for as long as possible while whittling things down with shooting. There does come a point though where they'll have to stand in front of something and take a charge. At that point being able to dish out a Bs5 S7 Javelin shot aswell as 4 S7 attacks that the opponent wasn't expecting is going to be very useful.

The Oldblood thing...yeah. I mean, that's how it's often done. I just don't see that big dino surviving very long, and once he's down, I don't see the Oldblood sticking around on his own for much longer.
I mean, it's only 25pts, so whatev.

I don't think 5 S7 attacks in one round is going to be doing terribly much, though. They'll charge in, take their lumps, and then murder the crap out of your BSB. Or, if they're Chaos Knights or the like, they'll paste your Chief before he can swing.
Or, if they're not heavy cavalry, the unit will probably just absorb those attacks and kill him. At that point, they might even just try to grind down the unit.
Maybe it'll work for you, but a Skink BSB's one true hope seems to be to survive combat long enough for someone else to come in and win the fight for him.

I take 2 oldbloods on cold ones over the carno. Yes it can be good but I have lost that carno before the oldblood too many times.

Yet 2 of these on cold ones gives you a +1 easy and still good movement and you can tool them up for different roles.

The Carno is fun, but I find that I always want the stubborn crown. The Carno will die, and then you've got an old blood on foot. If the old blood is stubborn, he's got a very good shot at surviving in combat until the end of the game, and preventing your opponent from picking up those ~500 points.

By the same token, I found that a skink chief on terradon is also nice to pair with him. The chief is good enough to kill most unit champs, and if you combo charge them both, the Chief can soak the challenge leaving the old blood and carno to do what they need to.

-Matt

Thanks for all the feedback guys, it's very appreciated.

@Warpsolution: 1+ rerollable and 4+ ward is very durable, even dismounted he's got good survivability.

The skink chief is initiative 6 or even 7 if near the Bastiladon so he's going to striking before Chaos Knights and pretty much anything that doesn't have ASF. He's got a 3+ and 6+ parry. Without being mounted you ca't really add much more survivability to him than that.

@gingerdrew: Cold one cowboys would definitely be a more competitive choice but as I said in the OP the Carnosaur's model is just too awesome not to use him.

@HawaiiMatt: Crown of Command is definitely an option but I'd have to drop the OTS and the Dawnstone to take it which is going to impact both his survivability and damage output.. I'm not really sure if that's worth it, guess I'll just have to do some playtesting.

Chief on Terradon is something I'd love to try though. Might be worth dropping the Priest for one as he's pretty much just a 90pt Dispel Scroll. Though a second Iceshard Blizzard is handy for potentially shutting down warmachines,

I never said the Oldblood isn't durable. I said I'm not sure if he needs to be that durable. The problem isn't him getting killed. It's him consistently beating 4 static CR, and not breaking when he does.
Crown of Command seems like a solid option. I wouldn't be too worried about his damage or his survivability, since he's got both, in good numbers, already. But it probably won't make a huge difference, either way.

Oh, Forgot the Chief is I6. But he could most certainly be tougher. Like, a bigger Ward save.