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Is there something i am missing or is Harker the biggest waste of points now?

I loved him in the last codex, and used him all the time but for the same point cost and he lost all his special rules?

Nope, you're not missing anything, they decided the Codex needed more cowbell and subsequently attached one to Harker's neck so he could no longer be stealthy. Had he stayed the same and gained the rending heavy bolter it would have been pretty awesome too.

Yup.

Harker is now only good if you want to spend 55 points for a heavy bolter, and the inability to take cheap carapace armor.

My guess is that there will be a dataslate later that will fix him.

 Ailaros wrote:
Yup.

Harker is now only good if you want to spend 55 points for a heavy bolter, and the inability to take cheap carapace armor.

My guess is that there will be a dataslate later that will fix him.

Dataslates: GW's way of selling you your codex's skeleton so you'll have to buy all the meat and organs in 15$ packets.

Lets hope so. I have read and re read it a dozen times, and looked at his point cost trying to figure out what happened.

Better off getting a Taurox with a heavy stubber for the same amount of points. But the Taurox will have 3 hull points, a twin linked auto cannon, and a heavy stubber. So, just better in every way.

The copy-paseted his points cost, but forgot to copy-paste his special rules?

 Ailaros wrote:
The copy-paseted his points cost, but forgot to copy-paste his special rules?

You'll get a super harker paired with whatever models GW wants to sell in the latest overpriced DLC dataslate.

Yeah, Harker is utter crap now. If they gave him stealth and/or infiltrate then he'd be overpriced, but at least there'd be a reason to take him. As he is, he's going back into the army case til the next Codex comes out...

Completely useless, which is quite sad :(.

I was really saddened by this. Perhaps the worst crime was how much of his fluff got completely nuked.

What's weird is that it doesn't even seem like GW is trying to remove the Catachan presence from the book for a later supplement. Straken's still in here and he's even better than he was last codex.

Straken is awful. he might seem cool but he is still a 195 pts for a T4 3 wound model that must accept and issue challenges, thats not an IC so still has a 4+ Look out sir roll. he is very fragile for his point cost.

And he's a force multiplier whose impact goes far beyond his actual unit so i dont think that matters. As for Harker... I just REALLY didn't get the scalping. RENDING Heavy Bolter? Meh.

 Insane Smile wrote:
Completely useless, which is quite sad :(.

Ok, You play your 1500 point army, and I'll play my 1500 point army that also includes one million Harkers.

If he's completely useless, as you claim, this will be a fair fight.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Insane Smile wrote:
Completely useless, which is quite sad :(.

Ok, You play your 1500 point army, and I'll play my 1500 point army that also includes one million Harkers.

If he's completely useless, as you claim, this will be a fair fight.

Hey, you can only fit 27 Harkers in a 1500pt list!

I'd actually take that bet and roll in a couple Land Raiders.

 Jancoran wrote:
And he's a force multiplier whose impact goes far beyond his actual unit so i dont think that matters. As for Harker... I just REALLY didn't get the scalping. RENDING Heavy Bolter? Meh.

Force multiplier like his counter attack and furious charge aura got halved, his CC attacks got nerfed, and a pointless warlord trait to go with his insane point increase?

R.I.P Harker

 Tenzilla wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
And he's a force multiplier whose impact goes far beyond his actual unit so i dont think that matters. As for Harker... I just REALLY didn't get the scalping. RENDING Heavy Bolter? Meh.

Force multiplier like his counter attack and furious charge aura got halved, his CC attacks got nerfed, and a pointless warlord trait to go with his insane point increase?

Yup. And still awesome.

Unless 7th edition is going to bring back oldskool rending, aka auto-wound and AP2 on a 6 to-hit

in any case it is 55 points cool tax



a small part of me is hoping they really did forget to copy-paste his special rules for the points cost and will thus add these in the upcoming FAQ (like how the Drake got faq'd to have a 360° arc)

If that's what rending does, then the pask punisher is going to be the most overpowered thing in the history of ever.

The question is, how could they change rending in such a way where it would suddenly vastly buff harker, and slightly nerf a pask punisher.

Vets+Harker+Forward Sentries(+Demolitions and 3 flamers); same price I used to pay for the unit with everything other than Moves through cover and infiltrate but a bonus of snare mines,and now my relentless Heavy Bolter has rending.

I do miss MTC and inifltrate but 1 in 6 games still lets me outflank Harker's Hellions(or Staerick's Stalkers as I call them in my cadian model force); which is how I used his infiltrate anyways.

His use has not ended for me and their tactics have barely changed.

It is nice that a lot of costs have gone down, even though I would have rather seen a reduction in his cost for the loss of his rules(or even if they just ditched stealth since forward sentries is so cheap now, and camo gear is stackable with stealth).

Kommissar Kel wrote:His use has not ended for me and their tactics have barely changed.

Only if you never used stacking cover save bonuses, or infiltrating, or outflanking.

Or FNP or MTC.

Literally the only thing you can still use Harker for is a heavy bolter. If that's the same, then you were only ever using him for the heavy bolter before?

Yeah its kinda sad, I really liked harkerstars. I was even working on a conversion for a more knightly harker for my 75th but that has been indefinatly shelved. They gutted poor harker and my inspiration :(

 Ailaros wrote:
If that's what rending does, then the pask punisher is going to be the most overpowered thing in the history of ever.

The question is, how could they change rending in such a way where it would suddenly vastly buff harker, and slightly nerf a pask punisher.

Rending rule FAQ - add a sentence.
"Rending works on a 6 to-hit if you're Harker"

Well harker was overpowered in the sense that 6th edition (which the last IG book was not written for) allowed you to load them up in a Chimera and infiltrate the Chimera as well...or outflank with it. OTOH 6th nerfed Harker's FNP from 4+ to 5+

 Sir Arun wrote:
Well harker was overpowered in the sense that 6th edition (which the last IG book was not written for) allowed you to load them up in a Chimera and infiltrate the Chimera as well...or outflank with it. OTOH 6th nerfed Harker's FNP from 4+ to 5+

Still, he only had 1 wound on a T3 frame so it was hardly worth risking your heavy bolter for a 50% chance to save an additional wound - we're Guardsmen, let the mooks eat lead/bio-weapon/laser!

And he also cost practically as much as an entire vet squad, and his abilities only affected a single vet squad, not, like the entire army, or all units within a radius.

55 points? That's it? What are you complaining about? After all it's not like you got a point increase and nerfs like us Nids. And not on just one unit as well.

Yes, the entire complaint about all of the new guard codex can be entirely summed up by the fact that a single special character cost the same as he did before...