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I have trouble deciding. but have been able to narrow it down to 3 variants, each awesome in its own right.

Punisher: 20 BS4 rending shots? yes please. oh, those rends allow me to strip HPs off upto AV 14 as well? hell yeah. and re-roll failed armor pens? win

Vanquisher: BS4 and re-roll to hit the vanquisher battle cannon? and then 2D6 armor pen? and then re-roll failed armor pen with the main gun and also with the lascannon and side sponsons? yes I want to OBLITERATE tanks!

The Executioner benefits from the broken blind ruling in the 40k BRB that almost guarantees me a deaf and blind enemy squad each time this baby fires, the punisher is ridiculously good against pretty much any target (but has a notoriously short range that may bring Pask into trouble), and the Vanquisher is arguably the best anti-tank weapon in the entire meta with Pask on board and extreme long range. Jagd Panther, anyone?

Help me out

Man, you make a thread for every single idea/question you have.

I mean, this one and the one you made 10mins later could pretty much have been the same topic.

Anyways, on topic, I'd go with a Punisher or Vanquisher for Pask, with the Executioner being 3rd.

Leave pask at home and save 40 pts.

 Tenzilla wrote:
Leave pask at home and save 40 pts.

Or...

Take him for the significant boosts he brings (and guarantees) for tanks like Vanquishers and Punishers, all the while guaranteeing PE for his squad to bring along two Executioners safely.

But hey, good contribution to this thread.

Pask is only worth it with Punisher, standard Tank Commander with Vanquisher is the way to go as a Primaris Psyker can do what Pask does but for the whole squadron.

 Sir Arun wrote:
The Executioner benefits from the broken blind ruling in the 40k BRB that almost guarantees me a deaf and blind enemy squad each time this baby fires,

I know the Blind rule isn't the best written rule in the world, but you wouldn't actually try to enforce broken wording in a game would you? That's..... low.

But anyway, the Vanquisher is a ridiculously good tank hunter, even kitted out with melt as and lascannons isn't that expensive. His benefits can be a little overkill though I feel. A normal Heavy Support Vanquisher with a nearby Psyker with Prescience will also kill any vehicle efficiently.

The Punisher I think gains the most benefit. Higher BS, Rending are all huge boosts with really redefine the tank. And if taken as the Warlord boosts this tank further (not so much benefit for the Vanquisher).

 Blacksails wrote:
Man, you make a thread for every single idea/question you have.

I mean, this one and the one you made 10mins later could pretty much have been the same topic.

Anyways, on topic, I'd go with a Punisher or Vanquisher for Pask, with the Executioner being 3rd.

Shush.

--

Hi Arun,

I wouldn't exploit the way blind is. I also wouldn't play you if you tried to.

Couple things:

It's cool to make a poll, but keep your answers short, and list every option. One of the WORST mistakes people make, here and on places like facebook do is they load their polls - You haven't asked me if I prefer a vanquisher or an punisher, you've asked me if I prefer a vanquisher (your reasoning) or a punisher (your reason), and have not given me all my options. There's no right and wrong here; Pask certainly helps a vanquisher but he also works on a punisher.

What would be better is if you just simply gave EVERY option, leaving it at the variant's name and nothing else.

This also has the added effect of encouraging conversation.

Punisher.

 Jimsolo wrote:
Punisher.

Punishers have serious range problems

I used him in a punisher today. Killed 2 7 man plague marine squads and some other stuff, surviving to end game didn't give up warlord. Great with Excecutioner buddy.

I always take him in the vanquisher, having the better bs, rerolling armor pens makes him a very good anti tank weapon. My guardsmen and artillery are left for the anti infantry stuff.

I would second that a poll with all the options and that does not require you to choose a single option would be better.

All three of the options listed above have their advantages and suit different needs and strategies.

The punisher will murder anything within 24" of pask. If you give him prescience then it will even murder SHs and some GMCs. The punisher does have limited range though as 24" while not bad does ensure you will be midboard where the melta DS, outflank/DS rear armour shots, and anti tank all is in range. It also can require a turn to move into position, not always true as most armies do not deploy toward the back of the board against an AM opponent due to the efficacy of our gunline abilities. You can also mitigate the damage done to your pask punisher's by giving him some cheap tanks to...tank, camo, bullgryns, PFG libby, screening the tanks with foot troops, and providing a strong rear firebase that can murder the opponent's upgrades (wyverns/TL thudd guns) and anti tank (manticores/tank hunter sabre lascannons/etc.). One of the benefits to mixing a forward scoring priest-conscript blob, gunline, and pask punisher is that the fast assault threats which normally trouble gunlines are not as much an issue when you have a pask punisher and priest conscript blob to deal with them.

The vanquisher is pretty good but most of the benefits of pask are not great on the vanquisher gun itself as a normal tank commander averages much the same damage with prescience. The big benefit that pask gives you is that your lascannon has tank hunter as well. The biggest benefit this tank has over the other pask tanks is that he can stay at the rear of you deployment essentially safe from harm and he is great anti tank around. Unfortunately vanquisher cannons are AP2 which keeps them from being amazing.

The pask plasma boat is an amazing combination with other plasmacutioners in his unit. They get preferred enemy and so will not kill themselves. They can stay relatively safe from return fire at 36" range and pask makes plasma weapons extremely scary against AV12 and MCs...which are two of the most important target groups. The only bad thing is that there are several target groups he cannot hurt (flyers, FMC, AV14, etc.) and he has trouble if you don't have quality targets on the board (ie against greentide he will struggle to be meaningful). Still a full 3 plasmacutioner unit with pask is scary.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
Punisher.

Punishers have serious range problems

I really don't see how people continually say the range is a problem. On a standard gaming table your opponent is not always going to be 36 inches or farther away, I have utilized The Punisher and the demolisher consistently with great results regardless of their short range, I personally think that issue is not a big problem as some people make it out to be.

Demolisher is just overpriced, but it will do what you want it to do on a 6x4. Deploying second 24" range is definitely not a problem, and deploying second you just place it behind something centrally located. 6x4 really isn't that big.

 gmaleron wrote:
Pask is only worth it with Punisher, standard Tank Commander with Vanquisher is the way to go as a Primaris Psyker can do what Pask does but for the whole squadron.

The psyker can't give a regular tank commander rerolls on armor pen that Pask has and best works with the vanquiesher

First of all it seem people forget Pasks PE rule. He only chooses one codex to gain PE against. If you face an Allied force, or worse and allied force with inquistors or something else its even worse. Pasks warlord trait does nothing a psyker doesnt do twice as well. for only 10 points more.

Heavy 20 Rending looks really great on paper. Was a punisher not good at killing hordes of infantry or even squads of terminators by forcing a ton of wounds before? The answer is yes. It was. Forcing a ton of wounds is how you kill hordes or kill small squads of TEQ.

Adding rending to the mix becomes redundant. They are already forced to roll a ton of saves.

Lets work off averages here. BS4 at 20 shots is roughly 13 hits. and half of those misses get to be rerolled, rounding up you get 4 more hits. 17 hits our of 20 if you get to use PE, to wound that is between 2 and 3 rending shots a turn.

Is 2-3 rending shots really worth 40 points?

As for the other variants, PRESCIENCE. better in everyway, and more reliable.

Pask is a fluffy character with no actual use unless you want to run around with the large blast plasma cheapo blind test.

Put Pask in a Punisher with triple heavy bolters, and two exterminators with triple heavy bolters. Watch things go POOF!

 Deadpool27 wrote:
Put Pask in a Punisher with triple heavy bolters, and two exterminators with triple heavy bolters. Watch things go POOF!

Why exterminators if you can take even more Punishers?

Honestly I think the exterminator is only semi-decent with Pask because S7 rending that benefits from re-rollable armor pen is better than S5 rending that does (though you get close to 5 times as many shots - if someone can do the mathhammer, please prove me wrong)


The problem with eschewing the Pask upgrade for a Primaris is that the primaris has to keep running and wheezing behind the advancing tank in order to stay within prescience range, and can be easily taken out. In order to take out Pask, you need to blow up his tank. This is why Primaris might work on Vanquishers, but not on the other variants, I think.

 Sir Arun wrote:

 Deadpool27 wrote:
Put Pask in a Punisher with triple heavy bolters, and two exterminators with triple heavy bolters. Watch things go POOF!

Why exterminators if you can take even more Punishers?

Honestly I think the exterminator is only semi-decent with Pask because S7 rending that benefits from re-rollable armor pen is better than S5 rending that does (though you get close to 5 times as many shots - if someone can do the mathhammer, please prove me wrong)


The problem with eschewing the Pask upgrade for a Primaris is that the primaris has to keep running and wheezing behind the advancing tank in order to stay within prescience range, and can be easily taken out. In order to take out Pask, you need to blow up his tank. This is why Primaris might work on Vanquishers, but not on the other variants, I think.

Russes are very slow. they move 6". Psykers also move 6" when a Russ moves flat out with its order 6"+d6" guess how far a psyker runs.......Also he has a prescience range of 12" you should be able to keep him quite safe. Also the psyker has more uses than pask does. If your pask tank dies....which dies just as easily as any other tank, you still have a psyker left. If your psyker dies, you still have a leman russ left.

Pask has a far better chance of surviving a hit from a Lascannon than a Primaris. You also have to kill The Russ to kill Pask, whereas you can just kill the Primaris to reduce the Russ's efficiency.

You also give up another Kill point for the Primaris.

Pask is also guaranteed his TL. The Primaris has a chance to fail his test.

OT, Pask is good in all of them. I'm thinking Punkisher (alright, you come up with better for a punisher/pask combo ) is probably one of the better options. I can grab (pseudo) TL Vanquishers from ABG though, so I'm not too fussed about bringing Pask in that.

 Tenzilla wrote:
First of all it seem people forget Pasks PE rule. He only chooses one codex to gain PE against. If you face an Allied force, or worse and allied force with inquistors or something else its even worse. Pasks warlord trait does nothing a psyker doesnt do twice as well. for only 10 points more.

Heavy 20 Rending looks really great on paper. Was a punisher not good at killing hordes of infantry or even squads of terminators by forcing a ton of wounds before? The answer is yes. It was. Forcing a ton of wounds is how you kill hordes or kill small squads of TEQ.

Adding rending to the mix becomes redundant. They are already forced to roll a ton of saves.

Lets work off averages here. BS4 at 20 shots is roughly 13 hits. and half of those misses get to be rerolled, rounding up you get 4 more hits. 17 hits our of 20 if you get to use PE, to wound that is between 2 and 3 rending shots a turn.

Is 2-3 rending shots really worth 40 points?

As for the other variants, PRESCIENCE. better in everyway, and more reliable.

Pask is a fluffy character with no actual use unless you want to run around with the large blast plasma cheapo blind test.

2-3 rending hits is a dead AV12 vehicle, and with his reroll to pen AV13 too. Pask in a punisher is about having a guy who can erase a Landraider one turn and the dudes who were inside it the next. He is one of the few truly versatile shooters.

 liquidjoshi wrote:
Pask has a far better chance of surviving a hit from a Lascannon than a Primaris. You also have to kill The Russ to kill Pask, whereas you can just kill the Primaris to reduce the Russ's efficiency.

You also give up another Kill point for the Primaris.

Pask is also guaranteed his TL. The Primaris has a chance to fail his test.

OT, Pask is good in all of them. I'm thinking Punkisher (alright, you come up with better for a punisher/pask combo ) is probably one of the better options. I can grab (pseudo) TL Vanquishers from ABG though, so I'm not too fussed about bringing Pask in that.

You have to roll 4 sixes followed by 4 more d3 rolls of 3 to erase a land raider in one turn. Putting pask in a punisher to shoot at tanks is pointless. Why not be more economical and use a vanquisher to shoot at tanks?

Also PE is not TL.

Whomever is shooting at your psyker with a lascannon over shooting at the tank with a lascannon is foolish.

(speudo) TL Vanquisher from ABG wouldn't be PE, it'd be the co-ax heavy stubber giving it TL.

 Tenzilla wrote:

 liquidjoshi wrote:
Pask has a far better chance of surviving a hit from a Lascannon than a Primaris. You also have to kill The Russ to kill Pask, whereas you can just kill the Primaris to reduce the Russ's efficiency.

You also give up another Kill point for the Primaris.

Pask is also guaranteed his TL. The Primaris has a chance to fail his test.

OT, Pask is good in all of them. I'm thinking Punkisher (alright, you come up with better for a punisher/pask combo ) is probably one of the better options. I can grab (pseudo) TL Vanquishers from ABG though, so I'm not too fussed about bringing Pask in that.

You have to roll 4 sixes followed by 4 more d3 rolls of 3 to erase a land raider in one turn. Putting pask in a punisher to shoot at tanks is pointless. Why not be more economical and use a vanquisher to shoot at tanks?

Also PE is not TL.

Whomever is shooting at your psyker with a lascannon over shooting at the tank with a lascannon is foolish.

With rerolls to pen 5-6 sixes isn't too much of a stretch. Add melta sponsons and/or a lascannon and you will make short work of any tank. The vanquisher is nice, but once you blew up the other guy's armor you're reduced to over killing random things. The Pask punisher remains effective so long as there is a target to shoot.

I did some dicerolling....a Paskisher armed with hull mounted LC can take care of any Land Raider that happens to get in range. And sponson mounted MMs are just insurance policy. Stick on a pintle mounted heavy stubber and you also have plenty of anti-infantry firepower to not worry about having lost the HBs

Tenzilla wrote:

 liquidjoshi wrote:
Pask has a far better chance of surviving a hit from a Lascannon than a Primaris. You also have to kill The Russ to kill Pask, whereas you can just kill the Primaris to reduce the Russ's efficiency.

You also give up another Kill point for the Primaris.

Pask is also guaranteed his TL. The Primaris has a chance to fail his test.

OT, Pask is good in all of them. I'm thinking Punkisher (alright, you come up with better for a punisher/pask combo ) is probably one of the better options. I can grab (pseudo) TL Vanquishers from ABG though, so I'm not too fussed about bringing Pask in that.

You have to roll 4 sixes followed by 4 more d3 rolls of 3 to erase a land raider in one turn. Putting pask in a punisher to shoot at tanks is pointless. Why not be more economical and use a vanquisher to shoot at tanks?

Also PE is not TL.

Whomever is shooting at your psyker with a lascannon over shooting at the tank with a lascannon is foolish.

Never said anything about a Land Raider. That, and if you have to jump to a Land Raider to make your point about AT weaponry, perhaps the Punkisher is more effective than we'd like to admit...

Secondly, I'd take a shot at the Psyker handing out TL'd goodness to entire tank squads if my opponent was foolish enough to present me with such a nice target over a Russ in pretty much any scenario.

Finally:

rigeld2 wrote:(speudo) TL Vanquisher from ABG wouldn't be PE, it'd be the co-ax heavy stubber giving it TL.

That.

Exterminator.
Tank hunter plus rending plus S7 beats a Vanquisher against almost all armor.

This is the different average HPs and chances to explode for the different AV values for the pask punisher shooting it's punisher cannon. It is brutal.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ILFcqTeFuW9FrWLRv1-fuxKzcODRR9ulwx_IZcOqSoQ/edit?usp=sharing

I jumped to a land raider because that's an AV14 target that's likely to come into your range. An enemy Pask in a vanquisher would probably take a Pask Punisher in a 1 on 1 if terrain allowed clear shots (and assuming he deployed far enough away.)

 Tenzilla wrote:
Leave pask at home and save 40 pts.

I'm with you. In an un-upgraded vanquisher he's 205 points, I would rather take a vendetta and save the points. A normally outfitted punisher with Pask is gonna cost 230 points, which is way more points than I like to put in any single model. I could get three wyverns for that, do way more damage, and have points left over. That would be 12 S4 blast templates, re-roll scatter, re-roll to wound, ignore cover, with double the range of the punisher. For me, Pask is just too many points. As an IG player, I get much more mileage out of adding more guns and targets to my army than kitting out a single uber-unit.

If you must take Pask, to me, an executioner seems like a no-brainer. Re-roll 1's against his preferred enemy!? With a gets hot weapon, he basically neutralizes the only concern that I have about getting a normal executioner. He's going to be super expensive, but will excel at anything you need him for.

The Paskisher is just not effective against enemy armor saves. True, you'll get 3 rending hits per turn on average, but even against terminators, you're only going to kill 2 per turn. Compare that with a much cheaper vanilla demolisher, which will kill 55% of the terminators that touch it's pie plate. Against anything with a 4+ or better, I'd rather just have a vanilla Russ, which will 2+ AP3 every infantry in the game, for a fraction of the points. And against anything with a 5+ or worse save, I'd rather have wyverns.