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So I was looking at the Deamonology primary power and it got me thinking; how many psykers in the game are Mastery Level 3?

Not including Forger world for now

Mastery Level 3:
Tigerius
Ezekiel
Mephiston (Maybe... FAQ is nebulous)
Arhiman
Chaos Sorceror
Greater deamons
Heralds of Tzeentch

Mastery Level 4:
Eldard
Fate Weaver
Chaos Sorcerer (Crimson Slaughter)
Swarm Lord

Is that it?
Any I'm missing? (Definitely)

The FAQ specifically calls out Njal as Mastery level 2
Let me know how many people can summon a greater Deamon please.

The rules for psychic powers are changing.
The number on the Deamonology chart is the number of successes (normally 4+) required on a roll using any number of dice from your "Casting Pool".
Your casting pool will be D6 + the mastery levels of all your psykers.

DA guy is Ezekiel - used in the WD example as summoning a daemon.

CSM Sorcerors and Daemon Princes can be upgraded to ML3.

Steelmage99 wrote:
The rules for psychic powers are changing.
The number on the Deamonology chart is the number of successes (normally 4+) required on a roll using any number of dice from your "Casting Pool".
Your casting pool will be D6 + the mastery levels of all your psykers.

Yes, but presumably you'll still need to be ML3 to not have to re-roll the Warp Charge 3 power during generation? Obviously, this might not be the same, but that's the assumption I'm working on right now.

 Quanar wrote:
DA guy is Ezekiel - used in the WD example as summoning a daemon.

CSM Sorcerors and Daemon Princes can be upgraded to ML3.

Steelmage99 wrote:
The rules for psychic powers are changing.
The number on the Deamonology chart is the number of successes (normally 4+) required on a roll using any number of dice from your "Casting Pool".
Your casting pool will be D6 + the mastery levels of all your psykers.

Yes, but presumably you'll still need to be ML3 to not have to re-roll the Warp Charge 3 power during generation? Obviously, this might not be the same, but that's the assumption I'm working on right now.

Considering that the WDW talked about the IG/AM Psyker squad as being able to summon, it's fairly safe to believe that Warp Charge level is now purely the number of successes you need to roll, just like magic spell Casting Values in Fantasy.

Even a Lv1 Wizard for example can attempt to cast a 24+ requirement spell, it's just horribly unlikely that he'll manage it outside of rolling Irresistible Force!
Now it looks like even MLv1 Psykers, (such as a Brotherhood unit), can attempt to cast a WC3 power, it's just horribly likely that one of 'em are going to auto-die to a Perils result!

Yeah, looks like any psyker can cast any warp charge power.

Alright, totally off track already. New record!

 Celtic Strike wrote:
Alright, totally off track already. New record!

That would be my fault. I misunderstood the point of your question.

Please, restate your question to get the thread back on track.

I'm not sure if you just want named guys or generic.

Chaos Space Marines:
Chaos Sorcerers can purchase up to Mastery Level 3.
Chaos Daemon Princes can as well.

Chaos Daemons:
Fate Weaver
Chaos Daemon Princes
I don't know this book too well, so I am not sure about other Daemons like Heralds.

The Swarmlord is one of them.

No idea if he'll be able to summon daemons or anything as he's forced into only 1 school from the Codex as the rules exist now. It would be pretty silly if he could.

 jasper76 wrote:
The Swarmlord is one of them.

No idea if he'll be able to summon daemons or anything as he's forced into only 1 school from the Codex as the rules exist now. It would be pretty silly if he could.

Not anymore silly than a DA summoning one of his greatest enemies. Not any more silly than Necrons and BA teaming up. Also why would it be silly if SL can summon a daemon?

Loopstah wrote:
Yeah, looks like any psyker can cast any warp charge power.

How so?

Davor wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
The Swarmlord is one of them.

No idea if he'll be able to summon daemons or anything as he's forced into only 1 school from the Codex as the rules exist now. It would be pretty silly if he could.

Not anymore silly than a DA summoning one of his greatest enemies. Not any more silly than Necrons and BA teaming up. Also why would it be silly if SL can summon a daemon?

Tyranids are supposed to be the animalistic, force of nature, nothing but feed army in the game...like Aliens and Starship Troopers buggies.

I am used to seeing summoning demons in fiction as black magic...premeditated, thoughtful, requiring great concentration.

Just a matter of personal taste for me.

 jasper76 wrote:
The Swarmlord is one of them.

No idea if he'll be able to summon daemons or anything as he's forced into only 1 school from the Codex as the rules exist now. It would be pretty silly if he could.

He won't be able to in one of the first leaked white dwarf pics there was a section talking about daemonology that said all of the factions could use it, except tyranids.

 Jaceevoke wrote:
He won't be able to in one of the first leaked white dwarf pics there was a section talking about daemonology that said all of the factions could use it, except tyranids.

Although I agree with this decision as a matter of tatse, it is funny how often Tyranids are directly neutered in rules.

GK Librarians (not sure about regular SM libby), Lords of Change, Daemon princes not made of Khorne, and Tzeentch Heralds can all be ML3.

Space Chikin is ML4, so he cares not for these lowly ML3 noobs.

 jasper76 wrote:

Davor wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
The Swarmlord is one of them.

No idea if he'll be able to summon daemons or anything as he's forced into only 1 school from the Codex as the rules exist now. It would be pretty silly if he could.

Not anymore silly than a DA summoning one of his greatest enemies. Not any more silly than Necrons and BA teaming up. Also why would it be silly if SL can summon a daemon?

Tyranids are supposed to be the animalistic, force of nature, nothing but feed army in the game...like Aliens and Starship Troopers buggies.

I am used to seeing summoning demons in fiction as black magic...premeditated, thoughtful, requiring great concentration.

Just a matter of personal taste for me.

And the Dark Angels and the Imperium of Man kill many people so there is no chance for any Daemons to come out of them. DA and any SM especially Grey Knights are trained to fight against this. Liberians are in seclusions from their Brothers a lot because of the fear of this. You want to go on fluff, there is a lot more reasons why IoM units shouldn't be able to do this. You can't equate GW fluff to rules, otherwise you are opening a big can of worms on what should happen and in most cases, what shouldn't happen then.

Davor wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

Davor wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
The Swarmlord is one of them.

No idea if he'll be able to summon daemons or anything as he's forced into only 1 school from the Codex as the rules exist now. It would be pretty silly if he could.

Not anymore silly than a DA summoning one of his greatest enemies. Not any more silly than Necrons and BA teaming up. Also why would it be silly if SL can summon a daemon?

Tyranids are supposed to be the animalistic, force of nature, nothing but feed army in the game...like Aliens and Starship Troopers buggies.

I am used to seeing summoning demons in fiction as black magic...premeditated, thoughtful, requiring great concentration.

Just a matter of personal taste for me.

And the Dark Angels and the Imperium of Man kill many people so there is no chance for any Daemons to come out of them. DA and any SM especially Grey Knights are trained to fight against this. Liberians are in seclusions from their Brothers a lot because of the fear of this. You want to go on fluff, there is a lot more reasons why IoM units shouldn't be able to do this. You can't equate GW fluff to rules, otherwise you are opening a big can of worms on what should happen and in most cases, what shouldn't happen then.

You're kind of preaching to the converted here, if I understand you. My opinion is that ONLY CSM should be able to summon Daemons. And I think the Daemon codex should just go away and get absorbed into the CSM codex. And I think there should be 1 Space Marine Codex. And I think there should be no Allies matrix at all.

Or maybe I don't understand you. In any case, my opinion is that the rules should match the fluff to make the game unique and to keep its armies unique from one another. Its just an opinion.

Speaking of Renegade IG should be able to too

I would hope they give em a chance to be BB with chaos.

Random guess on why the Tyranids are excluded from everything: GW doesn't want to make them anymore for whatever reason, so they're trying to steadily drive away the Tyranid player base by screwing them over repeatedly until they can discontinue them without complaint.

Of course the existence of powerful dataslates casts doubt on this, and it ascribes a degree of intelligence to GW when the company's collective IQ could be unfavorably compared to a rock.

<deleted, double post>

Fateweaver is also level 4 people.
In fact he is TWO level 4's, just only one is active each turn.

CSM have an item for psykers that lets them get a special nova power and a +1 caster level . So they can be mastery level 4 too.

Heralds of Tzeentch can be Level 3 as well and while not actually Psyker level 3 Pink Horrors produce the same number of Warp Charge at a unit size that a Level 3 does now that the rules have changed , that and being able to specialize to get a free power and roll on the chart they got a huge boost.

Tzeentch can get the largest pool of Warp Charge than any other army afaik and have the most LVL3s which makes sense because he's the god of Magic..

GK libbys can be lvl 3 right?

Hollismason wrote:
Heralds of Tzeentch can be Level 3 as well and while not actually Psyker level 3 Pink Horrors produce the same number of Warp Charge at a unit size that a Level 3 does now that the rules have changed , that and being able to specialize to get a free power and roll on the chart they got a huge boost.

Tzeentch can get the largest pool of Warp Charge than any other army afaik and have the most LVL3s which makes sense because he's the god of Magic..

I think we're going to see a whole lotta Tzeentch spam lists as people get all giggly about how much warp charge they can accrue. Best I can figure they can cram 9 Lvl 3 equivalents into a 1500pt FOC (I don't even want to think about unbound). That's the kind of silly that some people can really get behind. It might be too much pink for my tastes, but it certainly is a bulging feth-ton of psychic dice.

Let me just go see how much pink paint I have in my kit....

Ahriman is ML4

 Fenris-77 wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Heralds of Tzeentch can be Level 3 as well and while not actually Psyker level 3 Pink Horrors produce the same number of Warp Charge at a unit size that a Level 3 does now that the rules have changed , that and being able to specialize to get a free power and roll on the chart they got a huge boost.

Tzeentch can get the largest pool of Warp Charge than any other army afaik and have the most LVL3s which makes sense because he's the god of Magic..

I think we're going to see a whole lotta Tzeentch spam lists as people get all giggly about how much warp charge they can accrue. Best I can figure they can cram 9 Lvl 3 equivalents into a 1500pt FOC (I don't even want to think about unbound). That's the kind of silly that some people can really get behind. It might be too much pink for my tastes, but it certainly is a bulging feth-ton of psychic dice.

Let me just go see how much pink paint I have in my kit....

Well it is yet to be seen but Tzeentch did get a incredible boost especially as Cursed Earth being stackable with Grimoire. That kind of becomes abusive when you think about it because its "Daemons of Any Type" meaning Obliterators, Soul Grinders, Heldrakes, etc.. etc.. Also with the Grimoire you can now have a 2+ invulnerable , that's rerollable because of the Tzeentch special ability. So soul grinders just got insanely powerful. So did Nurgle Oblits, 4+ Invulnerable and Toughness 5 not bad. I'd take Soul Grinders, 4+ Invulnerable, Reroll 1s, Kind of Cheap for what they do. Also Cursed earth is a Warp Charge 1 spell.

It's yet to be seen whether Cursed Earth Stacks with itself, there's a caveat in the spells don't stack unless stated they do rule.

 Kain wrote:
Random guess on why the Tyranids are excluded from everything: GW doesn't want to make them anymore for whatever reason, so they're trying to steadily drive away the Tyranid player base by screwing them over repeatedly until they can discontinue them without complaint.

Of course the existence of powerful dataslates casts doubt on this, and it ascribes a degree of intelligence to GW when the company's collective IQ could be unfavorably compared to a rock.

Why make a new codex for them? They could have given them the Sisters of Battle treatment or Squat treatment then. But they get a new codex, new minis and new data slates. Doesn't seem like GW wants to get rid of Tyranids any time soon.

Hollismason wrote:


It's yet to be seen whether Cursed Earth Stacks with itself, there's a caveat in the spells don't stack unless stated they do rule.

I suspect it doesn't stack, but only because I still retain some small faith that not everyone at GW is brain-dead chimp.

Oh, and I think it's actually 10 Lvl 3's in a 1500 FOC. Yeesh.

Daemons:

Any generic Greater Daemon bar the Bloodthirster, Fateweaver, Daemon Princes, and Tzeentch Heralds.