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Ok... I admit I am weak. GW's sneaky ploy to tempt money out of my wallet is working with the lure of the warp and daemonic powers. It probably helps that I have just read fear to tread. I have Blood Angels with an inquisitor and some AM allies.

Having no knowledge of daemons what would you all recommend to summon to complement my force? Thinking from lowely troops all the way to the greater daemon?

Was thinking Khorne for fluff... But tactically...?

I usually run lots of assault troops, armour (preds and razorback backs) and storm raven or storm eagle with mephiston and an inquisitor. I don't have any dc (yet)

Thanks

From what I know so far about how casting in 7th works, the best bet is to summon NOTHING.

The number of warp charges you need to invest for a decent chance to pull it off, even when unchallenged, is absurd-and casting mostly spells that require 1, or at most 2 charges to work is far more reliable.

 giantearlessgnome wrote:
Was thinking Khorne for fluff... But tactically...?

For Fluff?
3 loyalist forces combined? I think "nothing" would fit the fluff.

To be clear I don't run the inquisitor and AM allies all the time... Even though it is both fluffy and legal. BA cost too much!

My point about fluff, unrelated to the above, was that Khorne and BA have a history together and an affinity with blood. I can think of a number of fluffy reasons from a rogue inquisitor duped to trap the blood angels to a librarian succumbing to the red thirst, losing control and 'accidentally' becoming posed or conjuring something unexpected.

As for the actual art of summoning it does seem to be a high risk gamble... Although playing with BA is a gamble at the moment.

If you want to muck about summoning daemons you probably need to spam psykers pretty heavily as you need a pile of dice to play with. You can't get up to tzeentch-type levels but you can probably shoe horn in enough dice to make it fun.

At first when I saw the table I thought the powers were going to be completely broken but as said above it will probably be too risky to even waste the warp charges in the first place. I would probably have to throw 7 warp charges at a 3 warp charge power to have a good chance of getting it off. That's quite ridiculous even for a Tzeentch army. I don't think it will be worth it to sacrifice your whole army's survivability to get the chance to summon a few daemons.

 herpguy wrote:
At first when I saw the table I thought the powers were going to be completely broken but as said above it will probably be too risky to even waste the warp charges in the first place. I would probably have to throw 7 warp charges at a 3 warp charge power to have a good chance of getting it off. That's quite ridiculous even for a Tzeentch army. I don't think it will be worth it to sacrifice your whole army's survivability to get the chance to summon a few daemons.

But....but you are going to have an infinite number of dice that will always work when you are trying to cast powers.....

How are you figuring you will need 7 charges for a lvl 3 spell exactly? =/

You will (according to rumors) need to roll a number of successes equal to the level of the spell. So you will need to roll 4+ on 3 dice. He's viewing 7 dice as acceptable odds for it to be assured.

GoliothOnline wrote:
How are you figuring you will need 7 charges for a lvl 3 spell exactly? =/

You now cast spells by rolling dice and needing a number of 4+s equal to the level of the spell. You need to roll three 4+'s to successfully cast a WC3 spell. to reasonably cast it you need at least 6 dice but probably 7-8 to have a good chance to do it.

Heck even WC1 spells are hard and need like 2-3 dice to cast it.

Even so, You're not restricted t doing nothing after summoning. And creating an extra unit close to your opponent is alwayz a good idea. Now it just depends on what other powers you're capable of. Generally, i'd go for 5 fleshhounds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's not fully confirmed yet. Maybe your needed dice will depend on psy lvl or something

I think that's pretty silly to toss away the old leadership tests for casting spells... Was this confirmed 100% with a picture or video ? Or is this simply speculation.

A general outline of the system was shown in the white dwarf but the specifics I think are still unknown. For example, it could be that not everyone needs a 4+ for a 'success' but could be lower... or higher.

I would probably want to summon Tzeetch daemons, since they have psychic powers and can summon daemons of their own,

GoliothOnline wrote:
I think that's pretty silly to toss away the old leadership tests for casting spells... Was this confirmed 100% with a picture or video ? Or is this simply speculation.

The reason is to bring 40k more in line with Fantasy battle.

Blood Angels should be decent at it.
You can get 2 HQ psykers and 3 elite psykers.
Then ally in some more...

But the real rock stars are the grey knights. Combat squad them and you get a dozen or so psykers in the army. I'm thinking the grey knights might be opposed to summoning daemons though.

What we're also missing is the mechanic for what happens when things go wrong. Hopefully, the mechanic is based off of the total number of warp charges generated; so the army that is rolling out 10+ Warp Charges are hit harder when things go wrong. Basically any mechanic that discourages total psychic spam.

-Matt

 Kain wrote:

GoliothOnline wrote:
I think that's pretty silly to toss away the old leadership tests for casting spells... Was this confirmed 100% with a picture or video ? Or is this simply speculation.

The reason is to bring 40k more in line with Fantasy battle.

I guess my question would be, "How do Daemons of Tzeentch work now?"

We have +3 to our Ld when manifesting Psyker abilities. Does this mean they are simply reworking it to modify dice on a 2+ success?

GoliothOnline wrote:

 Kain wrote:

GoliothOnline wrote:
I think that's pretty silly to toss away the old leadership tests for casting spells... Was this confirmed 100% with a picture or video ? Or is this simply speculation.

The reason is to bring 40k more in line with Fantasy battle.

I guess my question would be, "How do Daemons of Tzeentch work now?"

We have +3 to our Ld when manifesting Psyker abilities. Does this mean they are simply reworking it to modify dice on a 2+ success?

If that does happen, expect Tzeentch to be able to cast anything he wants whenever he wants.

Even with just three dice, getting three successes on a 2+ isn't a tall order.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
Blood Angels should be decent at it.
You can get 2 HQ psykers and 3 elite psykers.
Then ally in some more...

But the real rock stars are the grey knights. Combat squad them and you get a dozen or so psykers in the army. I'm thinking the grey knights might be opposed to summoning daemons though.

What we're also missing is the mechanic for what happens when things go wrong. Hopefully, the mechanic is based off of the total number of warp charges generated; so the army that is rolling out 10+ Warp Charges are hit harder when things go wrong. Basically any mechanic that discourages total psychic spam.

-Matt

GK won't be able to summon. They can only use the Goody-two-shoes options of demonology.

GoliothOnline wrote:

 Kain wrote:

GoliothOnline wrote:
I think that's pretty silly to toss away the old leadership tests for casting spells... Was this confirmed 100% with a picture or video ? Or is this simply speculation.

The reason is to bring 40k more in line with Fantasy battle.

I guess my question would be, "How do Daemons of Tzeentch work now?"

We have +3 to our Ld when manifesting Psyker abilities. Does this mean they are simply reworking it to modify dice on a 2+ success?

I've been wondering the same thing, my guess is it would be a 3+ at most, otherwise the odds are pretty good that they will be crazy powerful.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
Blood Angels should be decent at it.
You can get 2 HQ psykers and 3 elite psykers.
Then ally in some more...

But the real rock stars are the grey knights. Combat squad them and you get a dozen or so psykers in the army. I'm thinking the grey knights might be opposed to summoning daemons though.

What we're also missing is the mechanic for what happens when things go wrong. Hopefully, the mechanic is based off of the total number of warp charges generated; so the army that is rolling out 10+ Warp Charges are hit harder when things go wrong. Basically any mechanic that discourages total psychic spam.

-Matt

If you roll two or more sixes when using a psychic power it's a perils of the warp and rumour has it that it will be worse so maybe rolling three sixes is worse than two.

I guess we're just going to have to see what happens :^)

Tzeentch will probably come with some sort of "affinity" for Psychics, but only the Tzeentch table and that table blows. So that is what will happen.

That table blows?

I dont think having simple heralds shooting 4d6 shots each is the definition of "blows"

 BoomWolf wrote:
That table blows?

I dont think having simple heralds shooting 4d6 shots each is the definition of "blows"

Deny the witch.

Poof goes your entire attack.

Also it's worse than useless against high toughness units like Nurgle bikers as it makes them stronger.

It's mostly a chaff clearer. For elite killing, a Screamer star is likely to have to get close for the jaws and etherblades to do their work.

What you summon should depend on the situation and the opponent.

For this I will be using my khorne daemons with a coloured bead to mark which god they are actually from.

Bloodletters aren't the best option to summon, unless there are nearby 3+ people (marines and 1/2 eldar, mostly). Daemonettes, Pink Horrors and Plaguebearers (if your enemy lacks Ignores Cover) are better options.

Regarding Heralds, all are good. Tzeentch's must be kept away from battle, though.

 Kain wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
That table blows?

I dont think having simple heralds shooting 4d6 shots each is the definition of "blows"

Deny the witch.

Poof goes your entire attack.

Also it's worse than useless against high toughness units like Nurgle bikers as it makes them stronger.

It's mostly a chaff clearer. For elite killing, a Screamer star is likely to have to get close for the jaws and etherblades to do their work.

clearly you've never player against a maxed out unit with exalted locus herald

clearly if you play daemons you will stocking up on horrors. each horror unit summoning another and adding yet another die and summoning another. This will be brutal.

 felixcat wrote:
clearly if you play daemons you will stocking up on horrors. each horror unit summoning another and adding yet another die and summoning another. This will be brutal.

And you spent 6+ dice in the process to get 1+ dice next turn. Kind of a waste