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Hello Dakka,

I have been collecting my taut army over the past year. My collection has grown to over 3000 points. I was drawn to tau for the battle suits due to my affinity for Japanese Mecha anime, but after getting to play a few games at my local hobby store I started to receive the "tau hate." Even again my friend I could see his annoyance when my crisis suits and Riptide began to rake up kills. Onlookers on the game attributed my success not to tactical deapstrikes or clever unit placement - simply referred to "tau cheese always wins." My list is not cheesy, (1500 points was 2 crisis teams, 2 commander teams, 1 Riptide, and 2 fire warrior squads and a devil fish) but the comment ruins my enjoyment of my army.

Now I am debating moving onto a new army that will attract less hate. I am thinking of eldar and focusing on wraith-units to keep up with my Mecha theme. I know that Eldar is also a strong army, but the fact that Eldar can ally with Taut as battlebrothers. Will this just be inviting more hate comments, or will I be left to enjoy my games and modeling in peace.

I know I should not care what others think and do what I find enjoyable, but I play 40k for the social aspect with friends. Eldar was the contending option for my first army so I would not regret the change. Just nervous about the cost of purchasing a new army.

Trust me. Eldar will attract almost as much hate.

Not knowing too much about Tau I don't think your list is terribly cheesy. It's certainly not WAAC Triptide nonsense.

1) purchase from discount stores like wayland

2) Eldar Tau alliance is a thing of the past, thanks to 7th. So there'll be less bitchwhining

3) Dont let the haters take away your joy of playing an awesome army. Tau were sh!# tier army throughout most of 5th edition (thats 4 years) and half of 6th edition (1 more year) and also werent really the mutt's nuts in 4th edition. They deserved this boost and are a well written codex that probably will hold its own for a long time to come. Also, no more allying Buffmander with Riptide, and no more 4+ disruption pod Hammerheads, so Tau really did get "brought in line".

4) Eldar are actually even more OP than Tau, given that they possess similar firepower, superior statline and a very aggressive cc aspect coupled with unparalleled mobility. You might as well start playing Sisters if you let the hate of others get to you

Yeah, unfortunately you're reaping what you didn't sow on this one.

There are a few ways you can go about this. The best possible way is to set yourself up as an idiosyncrasy. Be a nice person, don't play cheesy tau lists, and make the game a fun experience for your opponent. If you do this, you'll be able to go with "Yes, those OTHER tau players are horrid powergamers, but I'M not. I'm the cool one." When people figure out that you're an exception to the rule, then I imagine you'll get a lot less guilt by association.

Another way to handle this is to deliberately handicap yourself. Yes, this might, for the moment, mean you might have to make a different kind of tau list than you like, and I understand the desire to not be punished because you're not the one who made your favorite units and combinations overpowered in the first place. But, in a way, that is somewhat just the breaks. Try and have some sympathy for those players whose stuff is grossly underpowered, who can also have difficulty playing with what they like.

You can also, of course, try and play special missions that allow you to both field a bunch of mecha suits without just tabling your opponent right away. Or some other handicapping.

And, of course, the obligatory statement about the kind of people you're playing with in the first place. In this case, you're up against people who are willing to be derisive to your face for the wrong reasons because they're upset at losing a dice game. Perhaps it would be better to find some people who weren't so hung up on just winning games, as it would then matter less what you chose to bring.

Tau can be difficult to play against, because it's pretty easy to set things up where you systematically deny your opponent the ability to really play much of a game when they play against you. Nobody likes it when they don't really get to do much other than pick up models as you roll dice. Gunlines are boring to play against for lots of reasons.

But if you can resist the temptation with your tau army, there's no reason things can't work out for everyone. You shouldn't have to play a different army over this one, no more than a person who can't win a game because their army is underpowered must.


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Oh, and one of the things you can do as well is to go the other way and find some proper powergamers to play with. They will likely mind less that you brought a strong list.

It's only those in the middle - people who want to win games, but aren't willing to do whatever it takes - that are going to be your biggest problem here.

Few people like others that win against them .Tau or Eldar win more then others , so people that play them get more hate. No list changing will change. If you want to play against people that won't hate you for using tau , then be friends them before the game . More or less the only way to avoid it. I have seen people call SoB players called WAAC , just because they won and SoB are hardly OP.

This is a great example of why imbalance is ruining the game. It's not your fault for playing Tau. Maybe take out the Riptide because that's kind of a focal point of (justified) ill will. But then that really sucks because you probably really like the model and think its a cool unit and you're being punished because GW doesn't playtest their own game.

As an Eldar player all I can tell you is stick with it. Haters are going to hate. I have been getting it for years. If you really want to shut them up beat them with something they totally don't expect. I beat people with no wave serpents and guardians and I get no hate for it because I am using unconventional units and getting similar results. I also have 12,000 points so its easy for me to use any unit in my codex. I haven't gone in with an Eldar assault army yet but i am still trying to figure a way to make it work.

But like I said, stick to your guns.

That's kinda sad. When people get mad at me I pull out my 3rd edition Codex Tau from my bag and show it to them. That generally shuts them up a little. I suppose you don't have that option though.

Just try to be polite and build a list you like. It's a really bad state of affairs. I have personally had games that just felt awful to play because I brought random stuff, not even the overpowered things, and just ripped my opponent to pieces.

You are fine. Trust me, your "friends" will be abusing the 7th edition rules pretty soon. You have done nothing wrong so don't change a thing.

 MWHistorian wrote:
This is a great example of why imbalance is ruining the game. It's not your fault for playing Tau. Maybe take out the Riptide because that's kind of a focal point of (justified) ill will. But then that really sucks because you probably really like the model and think its a cool unit and you're being punished because GW doesn't playtest their own game.

That's just the issue, I don't buy models I don't like. I run far-sight enclave because I am not an infantry person so the ability to forgo all infantry and play a battle suit exclusive list is very appealing to me. I have yet to have a look at 7th edition so hopefully the next time I play I will attract less hate.

Thanks so much for the support everyone.

As a Grey Knights player, I, too, feel your pain. I played Grey Knights back in the days of the Daemonhunters Codex, when playing a pure Grey Knights army was usually a guaranteed loss. Then the new book came out and suddenly my army was the new hotness and could actually win. Just stick it out, as other armies rise to the top of the pile, people will forget about your army.

Play whichever faction/army you want to play based on what you like/want to play.

I play Necrons and get some similar crap from people. The minute I put a unit of wraiths on the board I get comments about them, or if I use my 2 Night Scythes I get the flying circus comments.

People will bitch and moan about anything. If it's getting to be a problem, play some more "fun" lists. If I want to give my opponents with lower tiered armies a better chance, I'll run Lychguard units. Pick somethings that won't make the game over by turn 2.

Play what makes you happy.

What I read

Shaso_Keo wrote:
I have been collecting my taut army over the past year.

What I thought

 MWHistorian wrote:
This is a great example of why imbalance is ruining the game. It's not your fault for playing Tau. Maybe take out the Riptide because that's kind of a focal point of (justified) ill will. But then that really sucks because you probably really like the model and think its a cool unit and you're being punished because GW doesn't playtest their own game.

So it's imbalanced to play an army the way they were meant to be played? The strength in the Tau army is their long range capabilities and you say this is imbalanced?

Why not play on a game board with more LoS blocking terrain? Why not place objectives in places where they aren't in range of easy to hit long range attacks?

Tactical errors by a player =/= an imbalance in the game.

If someone wants to sit back and just line fire all day, let them. Next time when you're deciding on terrain and objective placement, put things in such a way that this type of gameplay isn't so easy. Force the opponent to work with the terrain.

My playgroup and I ensure that in all of our games, no objective is in direct line of sight to any of our starting positions so we can't sit there and line fire. We also add a lot of LoS blocking terrain because it actually reflects a 40k universe. It creates tactical challenges for some sure, chaos cultists for example get caught in chokepoints all too often so the player splits them into two groups, covers more ground and ends up holding two objectives while the DA player has to decide which he will focus on.

Long range armies are meant to be played long range, don't like it, don't play against them, but screaming and crying about Imbalance is pointless because others have no problems beating "Tau Cheese"

The question then becomes, what are you going to do about it next time, a smart general always adapts to difficult situations or he is a dead general

Well. I'm surprised that anyone thinks OP's list is... well, OP. It's alright, but not OP. Zero markerlights, proportionally a lot of fairly squishy units, minimal troops. Yeah. It's not an OP or game breaking list. You can try dropping the Riptide, but I doubt it'll do much to alleviate the hate unfortunately. I know it hasn't for me. I mean, the other option is to play LoL or post in YMDC. You'll grow such a thick skin that you'll laugh at people calling cheese

If it gets really bad, take Vespid. No one likes Vespid.

My suggestion would be that if people complain, bring a more broken list next time and show them what real cheese is. When the riptide first came out, everyone in my area was like "oh, that's so broken" and "oh, only people who can't play tactically will use those to auto-win". I got one because I thought it looked totally badass, the awesome stats were just a bonus. When they complained, I brought 3 at a 1250 game and throat-stomped everyone. Did it once, proved my point that one isn't really cheese, and haven't had to do it since as no one complains when I bring one or two to a 2k game. Right now the tau cheese is in mechanized, as tanks are much harder to kill now, devilfish are scoring, and having nearly twin-linked everything doesn't make the snap-shot jink penalty that scary. Run 6 sms devilfish, 2 skyrays, 2 riptides, and a fusion suit squad or two and watch your opponent really cry if they wanna complain about what you're bringing. I think your list would be a fun fluff list to play, and depending on loadout could be really good, but nothing that deserves flak like you're getting.

Fight fire with fire, good sir. Or in this case, Gouda with Swiss.

Shaso_Keo wrote:That's just the issue, I don't buy models I don't like. I run far-sight enclave because I am not an infantry person so the ability to forgo all infantry and play a battle suit exclusive list is very appealing to me. I have yet to have a look at 7th edition so hopefully the next time I play I will attract less hate.

If you just want to play only with a certain set of models, then just play with that set of models.

Switching to a completely different army won't necessarily help you any more than switching to different units in the same army.

 Pryamarch wrote:
My suggestion would be that if people complain, bring a more broken list next time and show them what real cheese is. When the riptide first came out, everyone in my area was like "oh, that's so broken" and "oh, only people who can't play tactically will use those to auto-win". I got one because I thought it looked totally badass, the awesome stats were just a bonus. When they complained, I brought 3 at a 1250 game and throat-stomped everyone. Did it once, proved my point that one isn't really cheese, and haven't had to do it since as no one complains when I bring one or two to a 2k game. Right now the tau cheese is in mechanized, as tanks are much harder to kill now, devilfish are scoring, and having nearly twin-linked everything doesn't make the snap-shot jink penalty that scary. Run 6 sms devilfish, 2 skyrays, 2 riptides, and a fusion suit squad or two and watch your opponent really cry if they wanna complain about what you're bringing. I think your list would be a fun fluff list to play, and depending on loadout could be really good, but nothing that deserves flak like you're getting.

Fight fire with fire, good sir. Or in this case, Gouda with Swiss.

Haha thanks maybe I will do that, sounds kind of fun. With dakka support I'll just tough it out and tell them to suck it up

I get some snarky comments from my friends when I use a riptide or overwatch with half my army, but they have much more problem with a Tyranid player we have. They read stuff at /tg/ and think it's all true...

 MWHistorian wrote:
This is a great example of why imbalance is ruining the game. It's not your fault for playing Tau. Maybe take out the Riptide because that's kind of a focal point of (justified) ill will. But then that really sucks because you probably really like the model and think its a cool unit and you're being punished because GW doesn't playtest their own game.

A single riptide isn't a focal point and not justified ill will. If an army can't deal with a single riptide then the player needs to rethink their list or strats. Leave your riptide as is since you paid out the wazoo for it, and that is justification enough to play it.

 liquidjoshi wrote:
If it gets really bad, take Vespid. No one likes Vespid.

Jump infantry that get a S5 AP3 assault gun standard, has stealth (ruins) and move through cover, fleet, and hit and run on I6, plus LD9... Vespid are broken and they're cheese if you spam them!

Actually writing that made me start to think they aren't so bad after all. Then I saw 18 points a model and remembered what other stuff Tau can get in fast attack.

Although I might be tempted to field Vespid now, just to see... maybe... just maybe...

I'm actually kinda worried about this situation with the Ork codex next month. I'm excited for the update but kinda hope they don't become too strong otherwise you'll have tons of people hopping on the bandwagon.

 Greenizbest wrote:
I'm actually kinda worried about this situation with the Ork codex next month. I'm excited for the update but kinda hope they don't become too strong otherwise you'll have tons of people hopping on the battlewagon.

FTFY.

I hope orks get competitive, but still fun and beatable. Designers said some time ago that Eldar and Tau weren't to be repeated, as power goes.

A lot of the grumpy older games in my local store get all butt hurt about Tau and try and put me down for playing a good army, I simply say "atleast I play games" because they just come into the store to cry about GW, and how Tau is OP because I'm always in there playing games with my Tau...

My good friend brings a very heavy cheese tau army to every game and he is a WAAC player, even in friendly games. I don't like what gw has made the tau into, but i would never want someone to change their army based on that feeling. You need to play what you like or you will regret it.

If it's straining your friendly play then just take a handicap. Play at 90% of the points level. It'll prolly be more fun for both of you.

 Greenizbest wrote:
I'm actually kinda worried about this situation with the Ork codex next month. I'm excited for the update but kinda hope they don't become too strong otherwise you'll have tons of people hopping on the bandwagon.

Agreed (and I see what you did there ) however I really do hope walkers come back with a vengeance, as I want to bring back my "Charge of da stomp brikade"...

To the OP changing armies will not help, especially if its Eldar, but to get a proper understanding we do need to know what your groups play and what is your upgrades on your tau army?

 MWHistorian wrote:
This is a great example of why imbalance is ruining the game. It's not your fault for playing Tau. Maybe take out the Riptide because that's kind of a focal point of (justified) ill will. But then that really sucks because you probably really like the model and think its a cool unit and you're being punished because GW doesn't playtest their own game.

This, but don't take out the Riptide. I bought the Heldrake almost as soon as it came out because I like the model (I don't love it as much as I do the Riptide, but I'm fixing the stumpy legs and no tail problem with Sentinel legs and other things). While I would say you shouldn't care what people say, it obviously bothers you. In that case, the only thing you can do is start to handicap yourself, unfortunately. Bring the drones with your Riptide, as they present a huge weakness - the Riptide is not Fearless, and therefore has a chance to run if the drones get destroyed. Give some Firewarriors pulse carbines and put them in Devilfish. If people complain about your Riptide, point out that it's their fault for failing to understand basic target priority.

I advocate bringing Kroot, just because I really like Kroot.