Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Did I miss it somewhere or did GW forget to put in the rules for how templates and blasts/barrages interact with multi-level ruins? O

blast and template rules say you hit what's under the marker, and nowhere else does it refer to multiple levels on ruins. i was looking for this earlier. so far as i can tell, you hit everything under the marker, like it says to do.

Lol. Another casualty of GW's "publish rough drafts and charge you $75 for it" policy. My artillery tanks are going to be pretty happy about that little bit of stupidity, even if my opponents aren't.

i'm lol'ing pretty hard myself.

 Peregrine wrote:
Lol. Another casualty of GW's "publish rough drafts and charge you $75 for it" policy. My artillery tanks are going to be pretty happy about that little bit of stupidity, even if my opponents aren't.

Imagine the havoc those Wyverns will wreak.

I suspect it's on purpose. My guess is they are aiming to simplify it. Seems kind of messed up though, especially depending on your terrain. Any multi story building is just a death trap....

So not only is the restriction that barrage weapons can only target top levels of buildings gone...

...but that a blast or template weapon can only target one level ruling is also gone.

This edition is worse than I imagined.

It's a very signficant change. So much so, I'm working in Shadow Weaver batteries in mass. Ironically, GW sells them in a bundle of 3.

Guess no more argument about the skyshield at least. I don't much like this aspect. Did they clear up the Voids shields at least?

I assume it's intentional that these rules were left out - I can't say I'm disappointed, since any unit in a ruin was basically impervious to blast weapons with the 4+ cover and you could only kill at most 2 or 3 with the damn thing anyway. You can no longer make units impervious to blast weapons for the entire game.

Bring your flamers, set fire to entire buildings and watch the world burn in cleansing flame!

 Mythra wrote:
Guess no more argument about the skyshield at least. I don't much like this aspect. Did they clear up the Voids shields at least?

Nope, sadly Void Shields weren't touched as none of the buildings in Stronghold Assault were covered so to make people still need to buy that book.

 Purifier wrote:
Bring your flamers, set fire to entire buildings and watch the world burn in cleansing flame!

Actually, they also got rid of the section saying how you're allowed to hold the flamer template over the entire ruin, so by RAW the flamer template is always supposed to be touching the firing model's base, so it's actually extremely difficult (if not nearly impossible) to flame models on upper levels of ruins.

I just realized how much more lethal Deathstrike missiles became.

They had received a significant buff in the last IG codex, but now that they can take out an entire multi-storied building packed with dudes makes them even more of a point and click insta-kill weapon.

 yakface wrote:

 Purifier wrote:
Bring your flamers, set fire to entire buildings and watch the world burn in cleansing flame!

Actually, they also got rid of the section saying how you're allowed to hold the flamer template over the entire ruin, so by RAW the flamer template is always supposed to be touching the firing model's base, so it's actually extremely difficult (if not nearly impossible) to flame models on upper levels of ruins.

Rules also say you can only hit anyone under the flame template (as opposed to anyone over it,) so I guess if you're really close to a unit, you'll have to tilt the template at an extreme angle to get it over the first model while still touching your own model's base so you'll hit only the first guy.

 Purifier wrote:

 yakface wrote:

 Purifier wrote:
Bring your flamers, set fire to entire buildings and watch the world burn in cleansing flame!

Actually, they also got rid of the section saying how you're allowed to hold the flamer template over the entire ruin, so by RAW the flamer template is always supposed to be touching the firing model's base, so it's actually extremely difficult (if not nearly impossible) to flame models on upper levels of ruins.

Rules also say you can only hit anyone under the flame template (as opposed to anyone over it,) so I guess if you're really close to a unit, you'll have to tilt the template at an extreme angle to get it over the first model while still touching your own model's base so you'll hit only the first guy.

No one has ever played it like this. I think if anyone tried, I'd just nod and pack up. That's too ridiculous to argue with.

Considering most multi-leveled terrain has a bad habit of only putting windows in one spot, making models on that level bunch up to see out of it, this really hurts. My opponent yesterday was able to hit my entire 8man squad of pathfinders with a small blast because of this (terrain didnt have any places to spread out and still have cover without being in range of his entire army). Only 4 were actually under it immediately, but since the window above was DIRECTLY above he hit that part too.

Makes no sense. Only damage youre going to cause to people higher up in a building you blast the bottom of it is if the damn thing crumbles afterwords....or it was one massive freakin shot and took out the building anyway lol.

They really should have added destructive terrain if they wanted to add the possibility of the blast being big enough, or lucky enough, to hurt other levels too. i had issues with blast spammer lists as it was, now i cant at least somewhat limit them and now theres no more "scattered off the level, affects nothing" rule either.
My poor pathfinders are never going to survive a single turn anymore lol

 Jimsolo wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

 yakface wrote:

 Purifier wrote:
Bring your flamers, set fire to entire buildings and watch the world burn in cleansing flame!

Actually, they also got rid of the section saying how you're allowed to hold the flamer template over the entire ruin, so by RAW the flamer template is always supposed to be touching the firing model's base, so it's actually extremely difficult (if not nearly impossible) to flame models on upper levels of ruins.

Rules also say you can only hit anyone under the flame template (as opposed to anyone over it,) so I guess if you're really close to a unit, you'll have to tilt the template at an extreme angle to get it over the first model while still touching your own model's base so you'll hit only the first guy.

No one has ever played it like this. I think if anyone tried, I'd just nod and pack up. That's too ridiculous to argue with.

Obviously, but that also means that my original statement regarding setting the whole building on fire still stands for anyone that isn't demanding that you touch the base of the firing model.

 Sir Arun wrote:
So not only is the restriction that barrage weapons can only target top levels of buildings gone...

...but that a blast or template weapon can only target one level ruling is also gone.

This edition is worse than I imagined.

i didnt see that change to barrage....

i will be awaiting some nice FAQing. (ps. wont be holding my breath... i know certain death when i see it)

makes torrent templates crazy-good

Aaaaand suddenly the Hellhound and Night Spinner got that much more competetive.

dear god let me not even think about the helldrake

6th edition benefits to being in a multi level ruin
1. immunity to barrage (when not on top floor)
2. 4+ cover save
3. great line of sight to whole battlefield
4. immunity from bike,cavalry and beast charges

6th edition drawbacks to being in a multi level ruin
None!

Why would anyone build a bunker when you could just construct some bombproof ruins instead!

Frankly I am glad they made ruins a bit more balanced vs other terrain types.

I think blasts are intended to mean you hit anything under the template that you can literally see when looking through it. Therefore you can't strictly hit the ones on the level below unless you can see them at well.

That is how I would play it.

Hello, Death and Despair squads.

Boniface wrote:
I think blasts are intended to mean you hit anything under the template that you can literally see when looking through it. Therefore you can't strictly hit the ones on the level below unless you can see them at well.

That is how I would play it.

So you truly believe that blasts/templates can't hit models under a skyshield, even when the firing model can clearly see the target model?

lol skyshield = perfect shelter

 Purifier wrote:

Rules also say you can only hit anyone under the flame template (as opposed to anyone over it,) so I guess if you're really close to a unit, you'll have to tilt the template at an extreme angle to get it over the first model while still touching your own model's base so you'll hit only the first guy.

It's worked that way since 2nd edition.

I asked the head of the local GW. After he got past the disbelief and spent 10min looking in the BRB he just said that they would use the old rules for it. Still, a pretty big flaw when you consider how often multi-level ruins come up.

Are multi level ruins still mentioned in the stronghold assault book?

 Sir Arun wrote:
Are multi level ruins still mentioned in the stronghold assault book?

Doubt it, that book covers fortifications.

 yakface wrote:

Boniface wrote:
I think blasts are intended to mean you hit anything under the template that you can literally see when looking through it. Therefore you can't strictly hit the ones on the level below unless you can see them at well.

That is how I would play it.

So you truly believe that blasts/templates can't hit models under a skyshield, even when the firing model can clearly see the target model?

I think if you target the models under the shield then yeah hit them. If above then hit them. I don't think you should get both.