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There's a number of people ragequiting WH40K selling their stuff for cheap. And if coming FAQ won't 'fix' what's done, even more will.
So, for me it's like a vulture fest! See, i'm not a competitive player thus i'm alwayz opened for a fun homebrewed game with altered rules and now such people who don't take the core rulebook too seriously can get nice models for super-cheap and simultaniously help the quiters with money so everyone's happy

Yep, that's the case when bad is good for some people. 7 ed brought some nice stuff and a hell lot of broken stuff but i don't see much problems with altering rules, really.

I mean when 6 ed dropped and made greentide invalid, i've bought so many orkses for relatively cheap that if i bought it from GW site (even if they posted to Russia) i'd spend like 5 times more.

None, really. 7th didnt fix any glaring issues with 6th at all, except making FMCs and non-flyer vehicles a little tougher as well as getting rid of Taudar and marinetau. But for that it opened up a whole new can of worms. I went to my local GW today to get warhammer visions issue 4 (i needs me some AM inspiration) and the store was remarkably quiet.

I totally agree that it's not playable in competitive meta without lots of restrictions, but that's not the only factor of 'being good to you'. GW's obviously moving to friendly pre-made games, so why not play friendly pre-made games and have fun?

- Card missions are a good idea! It was just introduced a bit badly. All it needs is something like "you get 1/3 victory point" and not a whole VP cause it's too much.
- Lots of people wanted vehicles to explode on a 7+ - here you go!
- Everyone i know agreed that FMC were over the top - here you go, nerfed to appropriate levels.

and such small nice changes like no more buffmander with riptides - obviously an exploit and we banned it but now it's in the BRB

Sure, there are things that are not doing any good like -2 distance to charges through DT instead of 3d6 - i think we'll homebrew it to be 3d6 again - and not simultanious shooting which obviously needs better ruling.

People are mostly unhappy with daemonology which is obviously good and fairly reasonable unless you get 15+ WC and foc changes which is irrelevant cause 6 ed codexes allready ignored it with all the dataslates and allies.

What if you want to play competitively in your friendly premade games? That's where I get my fun.

What is a pre made game ? Where you don't roll dice or something ?

 koooaei wrote:
I totally agree that it's not playable in competitive meta without lots of restrictions, but that's not the only factor of 'being good to you'. GW's obviously moving to friendly pre-made games, so why not play friendly pre-made games and have fun?

Simple: because if I wanted to play friendly pre-made games in the 40k universe then I would play Dark Heresy/Deathwatch/Rouge Trader/Black Crusade/Only War and not that 6.75th edition abomination.

Makumba wrote:
What is a pre made game ? Where you don't roll dice or something ?

You discuss with an opponent on what you're bringing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Fafnir13 wrote:
What if you want to play competitively in your friendly premade games? That's where I get my fun.

Just fix the rules yourself. BRB clearly states that it's not a set of unbreakable laws. Fix what you're unhappy with and have awesome games.

 koooaei wrote:

Makumba wrote:
What is a pre made game ? Where you don't roll dice or something ?

You discuss with an opponent on what you're bringing.

.

Ok I think am not getting something ,but how many armies have more then 1-2 builds possible out of one dex. Technicly with ally there is more combinations , but in general the lists are always pre made by the codex writers. Or is it something else ?

It's quite obvious. If the opponent is gona bring a wave serpent spam and you're in for a fun game of 2*30 choppaboyz, a helton of grots, some killa kanz, SAG mek and other stuff like this, you just say: "I'm not gona play vs a wave serpent spam, could you bring something else that's gona be fun to play against cause i'm bringing a non-competitive list"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Makumba wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

Makumba wrote:
What is a pre made game ? Where you don't roll dice or something ?

You discuss with an opponent on what you're bringing.

.

Ok I think am not getting something ,but how many armies have more then 1-2 builds possible out of one dex. Technicly with ally there is more combinations , but in general the lists are always pre made by the codex writers. Or is it something else ?

Now i'm not getting something, how can an army have just a single build out of it's dex?

Makumba wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

Makumba wrote:
What is a pre made game ? Where you don't roll dice or something ?

You discuss with an opponent on what you're bringing.

.

Ok I think am not getting something ,but how many armies have more then 1-2 builds possible out of one dex. Technicly with ally there is more combinations , but in general the lists are always pre made by the codex writers. Or is it something else ?

There are thousands of different combinations per dex, without allies or fortifications.
Even general builds are numerous for each dex, take BA:
-Landraider spam
-Razor spam
-Rhino rush
-Drop pod assault
-Jump pack rush
-Death co army
-Sanguinary guard army
-Tripple raven force
-Mephiston, raiders and termi beatsticks
-Any combination of 2 or more of the above.

Necrons:
-Silver tide
-Tri-monolith list
-Flying croissants
-Av13 spam
-Scarab farm
-Royal disco inferno
-Any combination of 2 or more of the above.

Etc.

And each of the above has thousands of little variations each.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
^how did I not include wraithstar???

I like the Psychic phase. My group has been saying we wanted that for a long long time.

I just wish my Sisters activated their Acts of Faith in the Psychic phase too, to negate some of the silliness. (I'm looking at you, Repentia. Feel no Pain that can be used at initiative step 4 at the earliest... pfeh.)

 koooaei wrote:
It's quite obvious. If the opponent is gona bring a wave serpent spam and you're in for a fun game of 2*30 choppaboyz, a helton of grots, some killa kanz, SAG mek and other stuff like this, you just say: "I'm not gona play vs a wave serpent spam, could you bring something else that's gona be fun to play against cause i'm bringing a non-competitive list"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Makumba wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

Makumba wrote:
What is a pre made game ? Where you don't roll dice or something ?

You discuss with an opponent on what you're bringing.

.

Ok I think am not getting something ,but how many armies have more then 1-2 builds possible out of one dex. Technicly with ally there is more combinations , but in general the lists are always pre made by the codex writers. Or is it something else ?

Now i'm not getting something, how can an army have just a single build out of it's dex?

You wanting me to purchase/paint/play what you think I should is absolutely horrible. FYI what you want me to play with is never obvious. This is the worst turd GW has ever unleashed upon its customers. You would be better off asking people to play an edition that wasn't as horrible rather than tell them what they can and can't bring to a game.

 Purifier wrote:
I like the Psychic phase. My group has been saying we wanted that for a long long time.

I just wish my Sisters activated their Acts of Faith in the Psychic phase too, to negate some of the silliness. (I'm looking at you, Repentia. Feel no Pain that can be used at initiative step 4 at the earliest... pfeh.)

It would be kind of cool if the Psychic phase became the go to, "Super power" phase with Acts of Faith, Necron technomagics maybe Dark Eldar drug injections happening here.

From my perspective, the new edition gives my squads of Rubric Marines a bit of a buff with an extra power for the Sorcerer (a poor one but still) and they contribute to the Warp Charge pool.

The Daemons I have receive a bit of a buff too with Cursed Earth and the Daemonology table in general is making me consider expanding my Khorne/Nurgle army to have a bit of a Tzeentchian element to it. Though I'm unlikely to go the whole Tzeentch Psychic Circus.

Funnily enough, on the other end of the spectrum, I've been thinking some Grey Knights might be worth having. If the worst of the commentary is to be believed we might get to the stage where we have a reverse of the old Daemonhunters codex whereby instead of Daemon detachments for opponents of Grey Knights, Daemon opponents get Grey Knight detachments

 Voodoo_Chile wrote:
an extra power for the Sorcerer (a poor one but still) and they contribute to the Warp Charge pool.

The GK extra power is a power that specifically only works against one army. It does nut all unless you're facing daemons. So yours isn't that poor.

 Purifier wrote:

 Voodoo_Chile wrote:
an extra power for the Sorcerer (a poor one but still) and they contribute to the Warp Charge pool.

The GK extra power is a power that specifically only works against one army. It does nut all unless you're facing daemons. So yours isn't that poor.

Oh I hadn't seen that GK receive the Santic primaris. That is fair enough as it is a very specific power, but I think by most metrics Tzeentch's Firestorm is a bad power.

 Voodoo_Chile wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

 Voodoo_Chile wrote:
an extra power for the Sorcerer (a poor one but still) and they contribute to the Warp Charge pool.

The GK extra power is a power that specifically only works against one army. It does nut all unless you're facing daemons. So yours isn't that poor.

Oh I hadn't seen that GK receive the Santic primaris. That is fair enough as it is a very specific power, but I think by most metrics Tzeentch's Firestorm is a bad power.

Rules just state that if you only take from one school, you get that school's primaris. GKs only pick from Sanctic since the rules also state that if your characters have a specific spell stated in their profile, they cannot pick and choose, they must pick those. And they all happen to be Sanctic.

 Purifier wrote:

 Voodoo_Chile wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

 Voodoo_Chile wrote:
an extra power for the Sorcerer (a poor one but still) and they contribute to the Warp Charge pool.

The GK extra power is a power that specifically only works against one army. It does nut all unless you're facing daemons. So yours isn't that poor.

Oh I hadn't seen that GK receive the Santic primaris. That is fair enough as it is a very specific power, but I think by most metrics Tzeentch's Firestorm is a bad power.

Rules just state that if you only take from one school, you get that school's primaris. GKs only pick from Sanctic since the rules also state that if your characters have a specific spell stated in their profile, they cannot pick and choose, they must pick those. And they all happen to be Sanctic.

Ah my apologies I misunderstood. I had thought you meant that Grey Knights had a version of Chaos Focus.
So does the BRB give GKs access to Santic (or rather specify that the powers they have are Santic) or do they still use the GK Codex powers? In any case GW really need to get those FAQs out as there is just too much grey area at the moment.

Well, Necrons are almost the same with skimmers slightly more durable but with slightly less fire power.

The same holds for Eldar. Their psykers got a boost.

So I'm not totally unhappy with the new edition.

My Marines (DA and BA) are mediocore as they have been.

 Voodoo_Chile wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

 Voodoo_Chile wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

 Voodoo_Chile wrote:
an extra power for the Sorcerer (a poor one but still) and they contribute to the Warp Charge pool.

The GK extra power is a power that specifically only works against one army. It does nut all unless you're facing daemons. So yours isn't that poor.

Oh I hadn't seen that GK receive the Santic primaris. That is fair enough as it is a very specific power, but I think by most metrics Tzeentch's Firestorm is a bad power.

Rules just state that if you only take from one school, you get that school's primaris. GKs only pick from Sanctic since the rules also state that if your characters have a specific spell stated in their profile, they cannot pick and choose, they must pick those. And they all happen to be Sanctic.

Ah my apologies I misunderstood. I had thought you meant that Grey Knights had a version of Chaos Focus.
So does the BRB give GKs access to Santic (or rather specify that the powers they have are Santic) or do they still use the GK Codex powers? In any case GW really need to get those FAQs out as there is just too much grey area at the moment.

No, as you say it's something that sorely needs a FAQ, but my gaming group is one that is able to harness the power of logic. It's not exactly a suspension of belief to simply say "the BRB sanctic spells are updated versions of the ones in the two editions old codex. Let's use the newer ones. Codex still tells us who has what."

 koooaei wrote:


Just fix the rules yourself. BRB clearly states that it's not a set of unbreakable laws. Fix what you're unhappy with and have awesome games.

Oh, we are about to fix the rules. We will not pay a single $ for the BRB, though. If we have to work out the mistakes GW makes, they don't deserve any cash.

Well, the one change I really, really like is the 7+ explodes. I really like vehicles and walkers, so maybe they'll be able to stay alive and kicking longer.

 Purifier wrote:

 Voodoo_Chile wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

 Voodoo_Chile wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

 Voodoo_Chile wrote:
an extra power for the Sorcerer (a poor one but still) and they contribute to the Warp Charge pool.

The GK extra power is a power that specifically only works against one army. It does nut all unless you're facing daemons. So yours isn't that poor.

Oh I hadn't seen that GK receive the Santic primaris. That is fair enough as it is a very specific power, but I think by most metrics Tzeentch's Firestorm is a bad power.

Rules just state that if you only take from one school, you get that school's primaris. GKs only pick from Sanctic since the rules also state that if your characters have a specific spell stated in their profile, they cannot pick and choose, they must pick those. And they all happen to be Sanctic.

Ah my apologies I misunderstood. I had thought you meant that Grey Knights had a version of Chaos Focus.
So does the BRB give GKs access to Santic (or rather specify that the powers they have are Santic) or do they still use the GK Codex powers? In any case GW really need to get those FAQs out as there is just too much grey area at the moment.

No, as you say it's something that sorely needs a FAQ, but my gaming group is one that is able to harness the power of logic. It's not exactly a suspension of belief to simply say "the BRB sanctic spells are updated versions of the ones in the two editions old codex. Let's use the newer ones. Codex still tells us who has what."

That is fair enough. Particularly after this year of neglect house ruling has become a common enough place amoung our group.
I had thought that the new edition might mean back to semi-regular FAQ updates however even accounting for the Bank Holiday in the UK today, if GW don't have FAQs out by the end of the week it looks like we might be back to fixing things amoung ourselves.

- Vehicles explode only on a 7+ Penetration result. This means that my Predators and Rhinos won't blow up to that single no-AP Penetration anymore. It's happened far too many times.
- MCs get to make only a single double-Strength Smash attack. This means that my Decimator Daemon Engine (AV 13, 5++) suddenly becomes viable in CC when fighting them.
- I'm intrigued by the Maelstrom of War missions. They prompted me to tweak my army list to gain much more mobility, which I expect will improve my overall performance.
- New Warlord Traits. I'm pretty excited about the Personal and Strategic tables.
- New Psychic Phase. I like the concept and the ability to block some of my opponent's powers.

 TheDraconicLord wrote:
Well, the one change I really, really like is the 7+ explodes. I really like vehicles and walkers, so maybe they'll be able to stay alive and kicking longer.

no, all it means is that people will just field even more medium strength multishot weapons to glance them to death rather than taking railguns, vanquisher cannons and the like

it also means ordnance weapons took even more of a beating

As a Daemon player, and a Tzeentch player at that, the biggest thing 7th edition has brought is a craptone of kneejerk nerd rage about "Daemons broke 7th edition AGAIN!1!!!!1!!111!"

Poly Ranger wrote:
There are thousands of different combinations per dex, without allies or fortifications.

So you guys count bad or weak builds as actualy being there , very interesting. Where I play most dex have 1 , maybe 2 builds and only the very best had more then two good units per slot.

That is why I was asking about the pregame thing . There is no pregame here , because everyone knows what will be in an eldar or tau army.

no, all it means is that people will just field even more medium strength multishot weapons to glance them to death rather than taking railguns, vanquisher cannons and the like

totaly agree. Trying to blow up 4-5 serpents would be stupid and aside for armies with mass drop pods sternguard would also be hard to pull off.
I guess we will see stuff like fewer riptides , like 1 or 2 ,and more missilsides .

It's quite obvious. If the opponent is gona bring a wave serpent spam and you're in for a fun game of 2*30 choppaboyz, a helton of grots, some killa kanz, SAG mek and other stuff like this, you just say: "I'm not gona play vs a wave serpent spam, could you bring something else that's gona be fun to play against cause i'm bringing a non-competitive list"

But that is like saying you will never play an eldar player or anyone who has a shoting army with multi shot str6+ weapons. Which is more or less all armies that aren't FMC demons .

This edition really didnt do anything to my Tau, though the tactical objectives are fething HARD for tau if i happen to draw a card involving an objective im not already sitting on. Yes, im mobile, but nowhere near as mobile as biker forces, armor forces, and i have no assaultyness so i cant push you off an objective if i didnt shoot you off it first - which means i cant run to claim it after

My first game was #2 - Lost Contact. six objectives, at the begining of turn 1 you get 1 card and every game after you get 1 card per objective held. I conceded at the end of turn2, because my opponent had a biker marine force that claimed 4 of the 6 and contested 2 of mine and already claimed 4 points from the past 2 turns while i had 1, and was no longer generating new ones. And thanks to some lucky dice he wiped out some important stuff in my army, and NEITHER of my reserves came in. If he didnt table me his next turn i'd be surprised because of that right there, but if he didnt i'd still lose because he was about to generate 5 cards and, again, i was going to generate 0.

However my first game in the old missions went swimmingly. My army was buffed more than it was nerfed imo, since i dont give two shiznits about buffmander riptide combos. It blows not having that to fall back to anymore case his current unit gets wiped out and needs another to buff up, but i'll live with that as it rarely comes up anyway.

Btw Sariskhan, dont forget that although its only a single attack it has a 2D6 penetrate roll now. Still only one attack but S10 + 2D6 is pretty much an auto pen lol.

The vehicles exploding on 7s really didnt help them THAT much. Take my army for example. My fusion bomb is there to deal with backfield AV13 vehicles, which i usually have rear armor on as well, not pop other vehicles in 1 shot. My broadsides and MPCrisis suits do that through sheer volume of fire. in the old rules i would cause an explode result about every 10 wreckages i cause. However thats Tau, S7 spammer kings, other armies not so sure how their odds are of glancing AV11/12/13 to death is.
Least it prevents common troops from popping transports with a lucky pistol shot lol

What has 7th edition brought to me? A good excuse to start Malifaux rather than buy £50 books with a 2 year lifespan and mostly recycled content.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Btw Sariskhan, dont forget that although its only a single attack it has a 2D6 penetrate roll now. Still only one attack but S10 + 2D6 is pretty much an auto pen lol.

Nope. One S10 AP2 attack with a re-roll to Pen. It's like Shred or Ordnance, not Armourbane.

Thank Gods.

 koooaei wrote:
Just fix the rules yourself. BRB clearly states that it's not a set of unbreakable laws. Fix what you're unhappy with and have awesome games.

Why would I do that? There are cheaper, better alternative games out there. Ones where I can go anywhere and the rules are going to be the same, because we haven't had to "fix" the basic rules in our own individual way, from store to store, from club to club.