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The more I read on through the rulebook, and the forums, and the more I keep looking into my unfinished model collection, the sound of making an Unbound force seems better and better. I can finally use those shelved raptors, those shelved bikers, and the countless shelved HQ choices I have uniquely converted, but never displayed. Without troops tax to even consider, I'm coming up with very fun and fluffy lists for small points.

As far as the Rulebook is concerned, I see no downside to an unbound army. The only mention of an Unbound force is on one page, 117.
A few people are convinced that an Battle-forged army trumps over all Unbound forces, but I do not see that listed anywhere. I understand the super scoring troops from Objective Secured. You get a plus for staying Battle Forged and still exploit the whole restrictions with multiples anyway... But with unbound there is no downside either.

Everything scoring has changed the game. And I actually like troops choices. I don't really see much differences between the two methods anymore.

Will people overcome the fear of unbound anytime soon? Can I expect to find a game with an unbound list?

People are still afraid of Forgeworld units. I wouldn't hold your breath.

 Psienesis wrote:
People are still afraid of Forgeworld units. I wouldn't hold your breath.

But yet screamerstar and the sorts were let to be as is

"Afraid" as in "OMG! That's not a GW product! You can't play that!".

I see Unbound as another format of Warhammer 40k to play; it probably won't be my cup of tea but it will be just as valid as Forged, Apoc, ect..

People have to look at it from the perspective that MtG players takes with their decks. Can I take my Eldar Dragon Highlander Deck and go play against a Legacy deck? Most of the rules are compatible, but should I and would it be any fun?

Consent will be the big keyword. Can we play Unbound together or will tournaments allow it?

Can I take my Eldar Dragon Highlander Deck and go play against a Legacy deck? Most of the rules are compatible, but should I and would it be any fun?

I don't know the specifics of how WotC determines what card from what deck belongs in what "game series" type...

... but if you're basically asking "Can I take this OP card type from another game classification and play it in Legacy, even though it's not a Legacy card" the answer is "not by the rules of the game, no."

The difference here is, while you can certainly get your fellow players' consent to bring it to a Legacy game, the rules that govern such game-types otherwise forbid it. In the case of 40K, though, that's not the situation. The rules (now) explicitly permit you to bring all kinds of crazy stuff with an Unbound list, and so the people who are pushing back against it are actually the ones being the jerk (though I would be that jerk), rather than the guy asking if he can bring 47 "Dudebros" to a game that "by the book" would permit no more than 3 "Dudebros".

I throw up a little in my mouth every time I hear "Unbound." Afraid? No. Disgusted? Yes.

 MWHistorian wrote:
I throw up a little in my mouth every time I hear "Unbound." Afraid? No. Disgusted? Yes.

Here we agree. I truly doubt I'll ever play an Unbound game.

To be honest, most of the unbound lists I've seen people make have nothing to do with breaking the game and more with doing cool armies. Examples being Iron Warriors taking basilisks, space wolves with lemon russes...a number of ork players wanting to field a Big Mek themed list using a Stompa, Gorkanaught/morkanaught and the smaller stuff or other similar kind of lists. Amusingly, most of the people bitching about how broken such lists will be in my area start listing off combo's you could do NOW in a game depending on size....personal favorite being a guy complaining Eldar players could take like 10 wave serpents before he was not so politely informed through heckling you can take like 14 in a standard list now.

Honestly, right now, it's all mostly still a chicken little situation, remember 2 years ago when 6th came out and said flyers would break the game? Well....other than helldrake you really didn't see a whole lot a flyers just a few months later so yeah....it'll all blow over and we'll all still have fun playing as long as your not playing that guy.

I hope not...

I'm really liking the idea of 4 Flyrants, 3 Mawlocs and a Crone @ 1500pts

I hope it's not, it has legitimate uses but some power gamers are already giving it a bad name before it really gets off the ground.

Honestly just means I will be more selective with who I play, if they have a fluff based fun unbound list then sure why not, if it's just how many daemons a turn can I summon with my GK allies probably not.

I kinda want to make an Unbound army because the CSM codex needs all the edge it can get. I suppose this will just make me more selective about the games I play, with both players looking at each others' lists and deciding if we should play, regardless of FOC. The models I have for an unbound CSM army would still get slaughtered by a competitive battle-forged Eldar army, so as always, discretion is required.

I dunno about you guys, but I have a game set for next week with a buddy who wants to play an entire army of just ogryns. So I saud, ok, how about I bring an army of just nobz and we have a clash of the titans!

There was much joy and anticipation.

Unbound is plenty fun, so long as you chase away TFG.

 Fos Kenos wrote:
I dunno about you guys, but I have a game set for next week with a buddy who wants to play an entire army of just ogryns. So I saud, ok, how about I bring an army of just nobz and we have a clash of the titans!

There was much joy and anticipation.

Unbound is plenty fun, so long as you chase away TFG.

No, so long as you have like-minded friends to set up games with in advance.

If a guy came to me with a cool unbound army concept I probably wouldn't have an issue with it, but I won't give blanket consent blindly- given the fact that I barely find the time for a game or two a month and the fact I'll be driving half an hour to the FLGS to get to it the notion of "if you don't like the list don't agree to play against it" just isn't practical for me.

I've played a couple of unbound now and they are fun

Played a Baal predator list and was crushed by a battle-forged list, my next was a walker-based list and again I was crushed by a battle-forged list - I think I only got 1 victory point in each

Both of these games were organised before hand to let people know that I was bringing fluffy unbound lists, seems to work out well

 Galorian wrote:
If a guy came to me with a cool unbound army concept I probably wouldn't have an issue with it, but I won't give blanket consent blindly- given the fact that I barely find the time for a game or two a month and the fact I'll be driving half an hour to the FLGS to get to it the notion of "if you don't like the list don't agree to play against it" just isn't practical for me.

thats fine, I mean even if it's a battle forged lsit you're under no commitment to play

For you advocates of unbound lists, I'd like to know how you feel about dealing with the guy who rocks up with what he considers a "fluffy" unbound list that you consider to be a steaming pile of OP filth. Being TFG is relative.

Problem I have with unbound is that IMO there's good and bad. So for everyone like me that looks at it and says "Woot I can do an all Terminator army that's not Deathwing" There's that guy who will play something crazy and since I'm forced to use unbound for my army I have to play against all the broken junk because I literally cannot play my army otherwise since it's not legal.

For example, that new all-Termie "Strike Force Ultra" that GW has looks mighty tempting even as someone who isn't that fond of 40k (I love terminators, competitiveness be damned), but much less so when I think that I'd have to play it using Unbound so I'd expose myself to all the 10 Riptide, FMC spam, weird combination nonsense that people are going to toss out and actually have no choice but to do it since my "collection" wouldn't allow me to play a Battle-forged army at all, and I'd have to negotiate something like allowing my opponent to let me use Unbound while they use Battle-forged by swearing on my mother's grave that my list is a fluffy Terminator assault force and not a cheese factory list.

The only reason why I do not care about fearing Unbound anymore is because Battle forged is so ridiculously lenient in its organization that it might as well call itself Unbound.

 Fos Kenos wrote:
I dunno about you guys, but I have a game set for next week with a buddy who wants to play an entire army of just ogryns. So I saud, ok, how about I bring an army of just nobz and we have a clash of the titans!

There was much joy and anticipation.

Unbound is plenty fun, so long as you chase away TFG.

The problem is not the Unbound armies, is the unbound rule. All ogrins is a rather tame unbound list, there are however some very broken ones out there, thus why people reject the rule. Any rule that brakes the game is a bad rule.

I guess GW's reasoning really is: "we don't give a flying feth about tournaments and competetiveness. We design this game just for you and your friend (and a small wargaming group) where you all know each other personally and discuss things before and after games and most importantly play to have fun and not ruin each other's day"

When viewed in this light, 7th edition is the best thing that has ever happened to 40k because your creativity ending up with illegal armylists is virtually gone now, and you can no longer worry about your armylist being illegal when you come up with interesting designs not designed for the purpose of slaughtering the opponent, but doing something fun like having an army only consisting of named ICs.

On the other hand, most restraint and game balance is now placed on your shoulders instead of the ruleset's but for a company writing rules for the mature hobbyinst instead of the teenage powergamer, this is indeed the first edition that doesnt do babysitting to prevent players from building cheese lists (though such lists have always been around).

Even from a competetive standpoint you can now argue that balance has been restored because there are just so many limitless cheese combinations that you dont have to worry about a specific army or list dominating the table anymore. Baring chaos daemons, that is.

Unbound is meant for people who don't care for rules and just want to shove some miniatures around. Unbound can work. We got one relatively new player who can't play a proper IG army because he lacks models...so play Unbound.

All others go for Battle Forged.

Orktavius wrote:
To be honest, most of the unbound lists I've seen people make have nothing to do with breaking the game and more with doing cool armies. Examples being Iron Warriors taking basilisks, space wolves with lemon russes...

Oh god. I can't exalt this enough.

My only problem with it is the bizarre faction combos. I mean, if you had a big enought table, you could literally have an army with a unit from every faction in the game.

I do like to have some level of suspension of disbelief.

Orktavius wrote:
To be honest, most of the unbound lists I've seen people make have nothing to do with breaking the game and more with doing cool armies. Examples being Iron Warriors taking basilisks, space wolves with lemon russes...a number of ork players wanting to field a Big Mek themed list using a Stompa, Gorkanaught/morkanaught and the smaller stuff or other similar kind of lists. Amusingly, most of the people bitching about how broken such lists will be in my area start listing off combo's you could do NOW in a game depending on size....personal favorite being a guy complaining Eldar players could take like 10 wave serpents before he was not so politely informed through heckling you can take like 14 in a standard list now.

Likely true but the issue remains that you aren't *prevented* from doing the abusive lists. That still leaves it open to abuse. It's like a bad law - you can say "It'll never be used like that" until the cows come home, but the fact that it *could* be used like that in the wrong hands means it needs to be addressed so that chance, however slim, is curbed before it happens. What we basically have with Unbound is that you *could* bring a nuke, but most people are content with just knives. However, that one dbag is going to show up with the nuke and curbstomp everyone, and he's technically not doing anything wrong, because Unbound doesn't have any restrictions whatsoever and is 100% reliant on agreeing to not be a jerk.

As I said above, I'd be tempted with something fluffy like an all Terminator army but not when Unbound is going to require that I run the risk of exposing myself to the cheesemeisters who will bring something glaringly broken because Unbound allows them to do it.

- Close group of friends, gaming club etc. - unbound was already played and perfectly fine as the group managed what was acceptable. I played my CSM + IG + Daemons with no problems.
- Random games at FLGS etc. - unbound/non-foc lists were not played before and will be poorly received by most players overall, though many reasonable players will likely give yours a shot if it sounds fluffy and not OP.
- Tournaments will mostly be battle forged only and probably esrict detachments/whatever they're called. Some tournaments will be run with unbound only or with both.

Depending on where you play, these are the likely receptions you'll find imo. I don't think unbound was a good idea. Casual groups already did it, adding it just muddies the waters for random games and what little of the competitive scene is left.

It's funny because taking 2HQ, 4 min sized Troops and 6 Heavy Support is now a fully legal army that nobody could refuse to play against because it isnt Unbound

 Sir Arun wrote:
It's funny because taking 2HQ, 4 min sized Troops and 6 Heavy Support is now a fully legal army that nobody could refuse to play against because it isnt Unbound

Hm? You can surely refuse to play against such a list. Just because it's a Battle Forged list doesn't mean you're forced to play it. Personally, I'd limit the # of detachments to 2:

a) Go with 1 FoC.

b) Ally with yourself and thus get 2 FoC

c) Ally with another faction (bar Come the Apocalypse) and thus get 2 FoC