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Ok, so setting aside the whole argument that's blowing up the YMDC forum at dakkadakka for the moment: Is a CCB worth it's points or is it just a giant point sink?

Here's the maxed out version at 300: Overlord, MSS, WS, SW, PS, CCB, Phylatery, ResOrb

For that I get a fast skimmer chariot with 13AV front/side and 11 rear, a +2S AP1 scythe, the ability to take control of your mind and when it does finally die it can get back up on a 4+. Oh and the rider has a 2+/3++ and there's an argument that the chariot can get a 3++ from the the PS brought by the overlord.

 necron99 wrote:
Ok, so setting aside the whole argument that's blowing up the YMDC forum at dakkadakka for the moment: Is a CCB worth it's points or is it just a giant point sink?

Here's the maxed out version at 300: Overlord, MSS, WS, SW, PS, CCB, Phylatery, ResOrb

For that I get a fast skimmer chariot with 13AV front/side and 11 rear, a +2S AP1 scythe, the ability to take control of your mind and when it does finally die it can get back up on a 4+. Oh and the rider has a 2+/3++ and there's an argument that the chariot can get a 3++ from the the PS brought by the overlord.

Even without the 3++ on the chariot itself, it is more than worth it.

I would reconsider arming it with a res orb or phylactery though. Going from a 33% to 50% chance to resurrect for 30 points, in my opinion, could be put to better use. It could give you a tachyon arrow, for example. Same with pylactery. With a res orb, 50% of the time you won't get to use it and 33% of the time it has no effect.

They're always struck on front armor in close combat so even power fists are glancing on 5s. You can sweep attack and then shoot and charge a unit. You get D6 S6 HOW on the charge. You can challenge, you're fearless, you have MSS and a warscythe... It's pretty powerful against everything bar haywire grenades and armor bane weapons. Overlords were already tough to begin with, their main weakness was mass fire from small arms but the chariot effectively makes you immune to anything that isn't S7 or higher. Melta can be assigned to the overlord... you're immune to immobilised and weapon destroyed... The only real risk is S10 AP1 weaponry and that's really saying a lot about it.

It also has fleet on the charge and I find myself reliably charging into combat when my opponent gets first turn and moves forward from his deployment zone.

It's also a huge risk to chaos armies. Their characters have to accept challenges and their small arms are useless against it. I've charged my CCB into a full plaguemarine squad with an aspiring champion and Abaddon. I had Zandrekh, so I took hit and run and charge into combat with the CCB. Killed both characters and then hit and run 13" till I was on top of a ruin. His plaguemarines literally got to do nothing towards the fight bar giving them rerolls and then couldn't even charge me the next turn before the CCB then hopped between buildings sweeping and gunning them down without needing to risk any damage from them.

sonicaucie wrote:
I would reconsider arming it with a res orb or phylactery though. Going from a 33% to 50% chance to resurrect for 30 points, in my opinion, could be put to better use. It could give you a tachyon arrow, for example. Same with pylactery. With a res orb, 50% of the time you won't get to use it and 33% of the time it has no effect.

I agree the Phylactery might not be worth it, but the ResOrb definitely is. Any increase in the chance to bring that much of a points investment back to life is most certainly a must take.
And I wouldn't give a Tachyon Arrow to a Barge-Lord. With no way to reroll a miss it's too risky for a one use weapon. They're better on Destroyer Lords or in a unit that has an attached Chrono-tek.

sonicaucie wrote:
I had Zandrekh, so I took hit and run and charge into combat with the CCB. Killed both characters and then hit and run 13" till I was on top of a ruin. His plaguemarines literally got to do nothing towards the fight bar giving them rerolls and then couldn't even charge me the next turn before the CCB then hopped between buildings sweeping and gunning them down without needing to risk any damage from them.

Was this under some weird amalgamation of 6th and 7th? Units no longer provide rerolls (that's a plus to CCBs). I assume Zahndrek was on foot somewhere and it was a generic Overlord on the barge since Zahndrek had his car keys taken away post-FAQ, right?

 necron99 wrote:
Ok, so setting aside the whole argument that's blowing up the YMDC forum at dakkadakka for the moment: Is a CCB worth it's points or is it just a giant point sink?

Here's the maxed out version at 300: Overlord, MSS, WS, SW, PS, CCB, Phylatery, ResOrb

For that I get a fast skimmer chariot with 13AV front/side and 11 rear, a +2S AP1 scythe, the ability to take control of your mind and when it does finally die it can get back up on a 4+. Oh and the rider has a 2+/3++ and there's an argument that the chariot can get a 3++ from the the PS brought by the overlord.

I would make the lord cheaper first up.

Do you still get a +1 armour save for being on a chariot? which means the lord has a 2+ save anyway? if that is the case you wont need the Semp Weave
Id remove the Phylactery, you have a 33% chance to roll a 1 which makes it allot of useless points
Remove the Phase Shifter, you can jink for a 4+ v most shooting and things that might double you out in CC are generally going to MSS themselves

That removes 75 points making the unit 225. Or 270 if you still need the Semp Weave. Consider that a Destroyer Lord with his usual gear is 190 points, so for the extra 65-80 points you get basically the same guy on a chariot. If you put him in an AV13 style list and also include Zandrekh for the hit and run (as well as the other things he does).. that is a boss combo.

Yes worth it don't take the the Phylactery for sure.

Where is this +1 armor for being on a chariot? If that is true sweet!

 necron99 wrote:
Ok, so setting aside the whole argument that's blowing up the YMDC forum at dakkadakka for the moment.....

This just made me laugh.

But to answer the question, I, too think it is worth it. I would recommend the phaseshifter because I worry about S10 AP1 or AP2 shots. I wouldn't want to take it on the chariot as I would lose quantum shielding and if on the lord, I'll be killed by instant death if I didn't have an invuln save. Ignore cover happens easy with markerlights and Longstrike will basically ruin your day.

The advantage of a Destroyer Lord is the T6 I guess.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I want to keep Quantum Shielding to shield out anything S7 or less.

 Mythra wrote:
Yes worth it don't take the the Phylactery for sure.

Where is this +1 armor for being on a chariot? If that is true sweet!

Pretty sure that's the 6th edition rules?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yes, the Barge Lord is quite good right now, not withstanding the fact that you can easily bring up to 4 of them.

I honestly think that just about every piece of gear is on the table for the Barge Lord. You can keep him cheap as possible, or you can quite easily push him into the 300 point range, and I really don't think you can go wrong either way provided it jells correctly with the rest of your lost.

Res Orb is generally a good investment on any unit that costs 200 points or more, which the Barge Lord almost always does.

Phase Shifter, while seemingly redundant with Jink + Stealth (which, by the way, if you aren't taking your Solar Pulses again, you really should. It stacks with Jink wonderfully), does give you back up against Ignores Cover and CC.

MSS has always been a must take.

Phylactery is actually right up there with the Res Orb. If you've invested considerably into the unit already it's a pretty good buy. It basically averages out to half a wound/HP per game extra. Considering how hard it is to remove 2+/3++ t5/AV13 wounds/HP, in the long run I think they will more then pay for themselves.

Tachyon Arrow I'm up their with Skoffs. In most cases I would rather couple this with a Chrono or a DLord, although if you have some Stalkers in your list they could be pretty effective.


I'm actually seriously considering throwing a TLab on mine to help with WKs and the like.

It's a great unit though. I would strongly recommend running one with the works (or close to it) for a few games. Your opponent will learn to hate him. And thing bring 4 (with 6 ABs and 4 GAs) and really piss them off .

Well, its a point sink for 300 pts.

I'd prefer a unit of Wraiths and an Annihilation Barge.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, its a point sink for 300 pts.

I'd prefer a unit of Wraiths and an Annihilation Barge.

Out of the 300, 90 is a mandatory HQ anyway. And depends on how you view it, warscythe, MSS and res orb are pretty much taken by most. And maybe phase shifter. So that's about another 100. the 110 points can get you 1 Annihilation Barge and half a wraith, probably.

So, is it possible to sweep over a unit in movement phase, then charge it or another unit in assault (as in, can the Barge pivot that far or is it impossible)?

 Inky wrote:
So, is it possible to sweep over a unit in movement phase, then charge it or another unit in assault (as in, can the Barge pivot that far or is it impossible)?

Why wouldn't it be possible to pivot?

Also, consider the following to see potential hits:
1- sweep over unit A in movement phase. (3 S7 AP1)
2- shoot unit A or unit B in shooting phase. (2 S5 AP3 / 2-6 S6 AP-)
3- assault same unit shot in shooting phase. (D6 HoW + D3 MSS + 4 S7 AP1)
= 11 hits at minimum / 22 hits at maximum, per turn*

(*provided you can hit and run out of combat via assistance from Zahndrekh)

Good analysis Skoffs.

2- shoot unit A or unit B in shooting phase. (2 S5 AP3 / 2-6 S6 AP-)

What are those last 2-6 shots coming from?

Its the choice of the underslung gun. Either 2 S5 AP3 from the gauss, or 2-6 S5 AP- from tesla cannon.

Oh, right, Tesla Cannon. Makes sense. The way he wrote it I was thinking it was some kind of new thing like the Hammer hits.

I would go tesla, if you don't feel the barge gets the ++3 and might jink.

I personally love the CCB. I take it every game. I don't care how cheesy people think it is, if I only take one I'm not an donkey-cave .

But seriously its so good. Nowadays what I'm doing a lot is taking monoliths as well (av14 all around being able to 'teleport' in 20 warriors with a lord with orb into the middle of the battlefield is nothing to scoff at). The CCB is AMAZING at drawing fire, and if ignored can literally cleave through entire units. I wiped a full squad of lootas last night in one turn. I love the newcrons so much.

So had my first 7e game last night running the crons with a douche canoe. While I could see the benefit of running it with the wraiths if it could be considered an IC it did amazingly well all on its own. I only made one huge tactical error: after a close assault had completed where the ccb had just ripped through a 10 man tactical squad I couldn't find the rule that says I get to consolidate (I found it later but not in time) so there I sat whereupon another drop pod full of angry marines hopped out and shot plasma up my butt. I decided to take the shots on the lord which I failed 2 saves so I was down to a single wound. In my turn the ccb was able to hide in a ruin and position himself for an assault next turn whereupon the ccb moved out killed a dude with the guass cannon and then widdled down another 10 man squad that contained coteaz. Between swings and MSS he got the unit down to 4 before sucoming to his wounds at which point I failed the 4+ ever living roll. The whole time my opponent is swearing at the ccb wishing death upon it. Had I not screwed up with the consolidation move I probably would have been untouched by the plasma and would have had a much better run through the last unit.

He also had a unit of invisible bikes. Let me tell you what will not do well against invisible bikes. A hoard of scarabs. What will kick invisibilities a$$? Lots of tesla destructors. I just didn't realize that until way late in the game.

The only thing I think I need to look into is shoe horning another overlord into the list that can stay safely in a flyer so I don't give up the slay the warlord point. That and the scarabs number one job has to be to secure line breaker. Had I done those two things I would have won the game. Had I used the tesla destructors properly on the invisa-bikes I probably would have tabled him. Oh, well....sometimes you win and sometimes you learn

^
Interesting. What was your full list?
(and I'm surprised the Scarabs didn't do anything against the bikes. How many were there? I feel like I might be including a Doomscythe in all of my armies from now on just to be able to handle invisible units).

Necrons have the easiest time with invis units, however I will never say anything to prevent a doom scythe being on the table because they are awesome.

twin-linked tesla will just put the wounds on the unit. I think barge lords are where its at. Combined with the phase shifter and you got a super durable unit that can put the hurt on

Actually, thinking about it, would a CCB Sweep Attack be able to affect an Invisible unit like normal? (it's neither a shooting nor close combat attack, after all)

Pretty sure it can, yep

So that would make three things Necrons have that don't care about Invisibility: Death Rays, Tesla Destructors, and CCB Sweep Attacks.
(four, if you count MSS)

Wait I must have missed something what's this business about a Overlord giving a CCB a 3++?

Phase shifter says any model with it gets a 3++. When an overlord gets in a barge they are considered one model for all intents and purposes.

So now a phase shifter also gives the barge a 3++

 Leth wrote:
Phase shifter says any model with it gets a 3++. When an overlord gets in a barge they are considered one model for all intents and purposes.

So now a phase shifter also gives the barge a 3++

Only when being shot at (then the person being shot at can choose to allocate hits to the rider or the chariot).
If you're in CC, the attacker gets the choice of allocating hits to rider or chariot.
Still good for making sure low AP guns don't wreck your ride before you can get in close to clean house.

 skoffs wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Phase shifter says any model with it gets a 3++. When an overlord gets in a barge they are considered one model for all intents and purposes.

So now a phase shifter also gives the barge a 3++

Only when being shot at (then the person being shot at can choose to allocate hits to the rider or the chariot).
If you're in CC, the attacker gets the choice of allocating hits to rider or chariot.
Still good for making sure low AP guns don't wreck your ride before you can get in close to clean house.

You would still get the 3++ in close combat on the chariot.

You would still get the 3++ in close combat on the chariot.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. So it's either AV 13 with a 3++ or T5 with a 3++, but you have to fight through the 3++ either way?

ShadarLogoth wrote:

You would still get the 3++ in close combat on the chariot.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. So it's either AV 13 with a 3++ or T5 with a 3++, but you have to fight through the 3++ either way?

As it is RAW right now, yes.

 skoffs wrote:
So that would make three things Necrons have that don't care about Invisibility: Death Rays, Tesla Destructors, and CCB Sweep Attacks.
(four, if you count MSS)

...and Focused Death Rays. They work a lot different from regular ones so I feel mentioning them would be worthwhile