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Longshot wrote:

Stelek wrote: ... words ...

EXALT!

Stelek: "Now, as odds are by this time I've killed the rest of your army sans the Falcons and what is within them.."

WOW, i wish i was an uber general and could kill almost an entire army in one shooting phase while 2-4 squads of my guys are locked in CC.

Stelek, you seem like a very smart person, but to make such absolute statements in a game that uses dice as a means of determining results is ballsy, the best you can hope for is "very likely". in the last 20ish games ive had, harlequins will "very likely" do their job. now obviously i have had games where they dont do a single thing, and I've had games where they killed masses of troops. and yes, hordes of guys=harle death or hordes of shots=harle death. hell even a decent amount of either can kill them dead but as it has been pointed out, the general makes the army. I'm going to try my hardest to not let you target my falcons full 'o harles and you are going to try your hardest to blow them up. but to say you never have to worry about them\or have no armies that can be hurt by them is rediculous. I dont think the 3 falcon, 2x harles and 1x fire dragon set-up is the be-all end-all, but it does give eldar the ability to kill anything. plain and simple harles and fire dragons can kill anything in the game. some better and some worse, but everything can fall to these troops. and to sit here and point out flaws\say one is better then the other is something i have always laughed my butt off about because no single troop kicks major 'tocks in every area. they all have different jobs. some multi-task and some dont, eldar being the best example of this IMO but my real point of posting this is:


WHY IS THERE NO WARP SPIDER LORD?

i mean if he can die to doubles also, that would suck, but maybe make him immune to it?

Dude, 40K is a shooting game. It has been for a long time now.

You can't tell me you're elite Harlies are going to sit in their Falcons all day long then up and steal the Objectives from me on turn 6, and then in the same breath tell me your going to lock my whole army up with Twelve (12) guys AND own it.

Why can't I say my ENTIRE army is going to shoot HALF your army (which is incredibly fragile and relatively easy to kill) when all your doing is putting BS3 shots from 3 Falcons into me? Have you even looked at my army lists? I *will* beat 800 points of guardians et al, in 2 turns with every army I have. You gonna hide, make me come get you? Fine, I'll fire my 1800 points at your 600 points of Falcons and see just how invulnerable they are the entire game.

They aren't that good!

There is no Warp Spider Lord because GW took 12 years to get the WS rules right. Maybe in a few years they'll make one. Personally I wouldn't hold my breath waiting.

Oh and my dice are loaded, I pay the judges off, everything is rigged, and God is on my side.

Ok everything but the last part isn't true. I've been accused of having a null field that makes others dice rolls bad, and mine good.

If they'd just look under the table at the magnets....

It is long established that there are six Phoenix Lords, so no Warp Spider or Shining Spear lords. please remember that there are more than eight aspects anyway, not all have game rules Swirling Orbs of Zandros for example.

Back to killing harlies, outside of short ranged shooting. The answer charge them with cheap stuff, so you rend, ok my GEq model is going to die anyway, why not a messy death. All the other Harlie advantages are there to counter elite units. 5+I, great at least my bayonet/little claws doesnt have to deal with a decent armour save. In fact GEq can match Harlies save for save.

To overspecilise is to breed in weakness. Scorpions and Banshees have thier place, in fact because I have both I dont feel any need to hurry and buy Harlequins, that and the paintjob is a bitch to do right.

I don't get why I have to argue the merits of the best assault unit in the game point for point, but I give up

Stelek wins. 4 attack guys with I7 on the charge, plasma grenades, veil of tears, rending and hit and run suck because you can't wipe out an entire army with them without help (good thing they only cost 160pts and you'd buy the falcons anyway).

Longshot wrote:I don't get why I have to argue the merits of the best assault unit in the game point for point, but I give up

Because point for point means jack until it comes to victory points. Sometimes Scorpions do better. If you ovespecialise, you breed in weakness. Some units can handle Harlies better than others. Simple as.

Stelek wrote:Oh and my dice are loaded, I pay the judges off, everything is rigged, and God is on my side.

Ok everything but the last part isn't true. I've been accused of having a null field that makes others dice rolls bad, and mine good.

If they'd just look under the table at the magnets....

always wondered if someone has been caught using fixed dice.........

my point wasnt that harle's are the best, but rather that in a game of averages, you will do well sometimes and will get rolled sometimes. it happens. but to argue that a unit is better than another is pointless

harle's beat dire avengers and DA beat guardians and i know someone will say, but 10 dire avengers will shoot down 10 harles! and 10 guardians with a scatter laser platform can shoot them all down before they even get close! all of those are true, but its obvious that in CC the harle's win. every unit has strength and weaknesses, exploiting the benefits and minimizing the weaknesses are what make people good 40kers.


and to be honest, I've never looked for your army posts stelek, I'll check them out, Ive always wanted to see a truly "uber" list

There are lots of lists that are good, or very very good against specific opponents.

Having balanced lists that are, at worst, 'ok' against your worst match-up, is what makes army list building such a fine art. I like to think I'm very very good at it, primarily because of my long experience playing every army.

Once you get on the tabletop, being lucky or unlucky can happen to everyone; changing the odds to balance in your favor is what seperates the good generals from the bad ones. I like to think ahead, right to the end of the game...alot of armies you can see exactly what they can do and where they can go, and plan a response. Making a plan to suit the mission and your opponent, and sticking to it, is my key to success as a general. YMMV.

Orlanth wrote:If you ovespecialise, you breed in weakness.

And that's why we use unenhanced humans on our teams.

Stelek wrote:Dude, 40K is a shooting game. It has been for a long time now.

You can't tell me you're elite Harlies are going to sit in their Falcons all day long then up and steal the Objectives from me on turn 6, and then in the same breath tell me your going to lock my whole army up with Twelve (12) guys AND own it.

You're right, I can't tell you that. So it's a good job I didn't say that. My point was that the now empty Falcons are going to cause you problems, as will the rest of the Eldar army, which has been spared the attention of four of your most potent units for a few turns. Kapeesh?

I await with glee the kapeeshing moment.