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Da Boss wrote:Edit to add:
I reckon grey knights are a good match for orks now. They have a lot of long range, mobile AP5 dakka, and when you hit them with a mob they can generally clear the killzone before you can murderize them. They also have that nasty holocaust power.

Played some games vs. a variety of SM chapters, and got whupped by 13th company and Templars. The higher I (and large unit numbers) is murder vs. orks, even with Furious Assualt.

Haven't played vs. GK, but according to my math they'd (meaning PAGKs) kill almost one boy apiece when charged. Charging GKs is even uglier, killing a bit more than 2 orks per PAGK. All this before the orks struck back.

GK have to be the worst possible army I can imagine for fighting Orks. 25 pt marines is just more meat for the PK nob...and that's assuming the Orks even care to get into assault.

Shootaboyz outshoot grey knights, even assuming Gk's start at optimal range.

30 orks with a Pk nob and 3 rokkits is someting like 245 pts. that roughly equates to 8 grey knights with a justicar and 2 psycannons (i think the GK squad is more like 280pts or something).

At 24", Gk's open up, killing (12 storm bolters, 8 hits, 4 dead orks. 6 psycannons, 4 hits, 3.33 dead orks) 7.33 orks.

Orks close, killing .83 with rokkits and about 2.4 with shootas -- 3.23 dead gks

Gks shoot back killing (1.8 with storm bolters, 3.33 with psycannons) 5.18 orks, total of 12.51 orks

Orks kill .83 with rokkits, 1.83 with shootas -- 2.66 dead gks, total of 5.89 dead Gks

GKs shoot back killing barely any with stormbolters and 3.33 with psycannons.

And then they die.

Admittedly this is not the best methodology, someone like Puree could do it better I'm sure factoring in the likelihood of various outcomes (e.g. not using percentages of an ork firing).

But siffice it to say a squad of 30 orks will kill equivalent points of GKs in shooting before they get knocked below the leadership threshold most of the time as far as I can tell.

Longshot wrote:GK have to be the worst possible army I can imagine for fighting Orks. 25 pt marines is just more meat for the PK nob...and that's assuming the Orks even care to get into assault.

Shootaboyz outshoot grey knights, even assuming Gk's start at optimal range.

30 orks with a Pk nob and 3 rokkits is someting like 245 pts. that roughly equates to 8 grey knights with a justicar and 2 psycannons (i think the GK squad is more like 280pts or something).

At 24", Gk's open up, killing (12 storm bolters, 8 hits, 4 dead orks. 6 psycannons, 4 hits, 3.33 dead orks) 7.33 orks.

Orks close, killing .83 with rokkits and about 2.4 with shootas -- 3.23 dead gks

Gks shoot back killing (1.8 with storm bolters, 3.33 with psycannons) 5.18 orks, total of 12.51 orks

Orks kill .83 with rokkits, 1.83 with shootas -- 2.66 dead gks, total of 5.89 dead Gks

GKs shoot back killing barely any with stormbolters and 3.33 with psycannons.

And then they die.

Admittedly this is not the best methodology, someone like Puree could do it better I'm sure factoring in the likelihood of various outcomes (e.g. not using percentages of an ork firing).

But siffice it to say a squad of 30 orks will kill equivalent points of GKs in shooting before they get knocked below the leadership threshold most of the time as far as I can tell.

Those number might be a ittle off since the GK's don't need to stand still to fire at full effect. They can step back as the Orks come forward and deny many Ork shots at them. The GK's can also step to the side and clip sections of an Ork mob with shots. if anything expensive is in that section (Nobs or Rokkits) they can be sniped. The Holocaust power is murder on the Orks for sure, but only Terminators, Inquisitors and HQ's can get it.

GK's used to be great vs. Orks since they beat the daylights out of Orks in CC.

As it is now, GK's are just marines who shoot more. Shoota Boyz will decimate them just like the decimate Marines, Lootas too will be eating them for lunch. Heck if the Orks took Battlewagons with our AP3 pie plates, they have a hard time dealing with AV14 and will suffer.

The key will be to shoot them, and even if you ran a combat horde, you probably could beat them with enough bodies/PK's.