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Buying and Painting up mobs of 30 are my only problem...

On sunday i tested the 1500pt ork list i have on the army list fourm against a 1600pt necron list
(30 immortals, 20 warriors, 4 destroyers and a lord with res and veil)
Besides the destroyers popping one trukk and sending it kareening in to my lines killing 5 boyz and 3 stormboyz (that was the highlight of the game) the list did well. My kommandos came in on his edge and stopped one squad of immortals from doing anything. The biker boss came up with another trukk and hit the open flank and the necros just started falling like flys.

Now this was just a friendly game but still, i belive if the orks can get there the nercos dont stand a chance. Even with the res and veil.

Yes, that's the problem--getting there. If he had monoliths, it might have gone worse for you as he could pull more units out of close combat and shoot you more.

Yeah that is trure and the only thing i had that could hurt the monolith was 5 klaws and the sag. But even at 1600 pts would it be a good idea to run a monolith? Maybe 2?

Yes. 1500 point necrons can afford 1 monolith. 2 if you want to.

And not worry about phase out? Thats 480pts if you run two of no nercons on the board.

Worrying too much about 'liths lowering your Phase Out count is misguided. They make it harder for your opponent to hit that magic number, which is as good as adding to it.

Stelek wrote:Yes, that's the problem--getting there. If he had monoliths, it might have gone worse for you as he could pull more units out of close combat and shoot you more.

Again, the success of the necrons vs. orks will be directly proportional to the number of monoliths they bring.

Back when my dark eldar weren't so dusty I had a easy time with multi lith armies. I'd shower warrriors with DL and disintegrators (when they portal though the lith they are nice and clustered.)
I didin't have a lot of luck taking down liths but I could force a phase out more often than not.

Granted before 4th edition there was one guy who ised his liths as mobile shields. God that was brutal.

In the current environment, I think monolith(s) are essential to Necron armies.

WBB is fine, but WBB (with a veil) again is better.

Tau and Carnifexes are the real threats to Monoliths, given the S10 shots they can put out--most other armies struggle against them.

Personally I'd always bring 2 so one isn't a target for everything and the kitchen sink from the other army.

Works great until you run up against a gunline or Tau army that takes 500pts of monoliths from you in a couple turns and then shoots you up.

Non-monolith Necrons are more reliable against every single top tier opponent except Orks, pretty much.

And I think you'll find offensive Crons (as 40ke calls them) will do just fine. They will need some scarabs but that's the only real modification I think you'll see.

Not so sure about Sniper fex's against Liths. Each venom canon shot has a 4% chance to destroy a lith, imobilised really does not hurt one too much, weapon destroyed results have little effect, and I was told in my last battle that stun and shaken results really dont do much either.

A full squad of 3 sniper fexs have about a 25% chance per turn of killing a single lith. Thats an average of 2-4 turns of fire from 450+ pts of nids to kill a sub 250pt vehicle.

Sniper fex's are very efficient at dealing with monoliths. 2 S:10 VC's and a S:8 BS are pretty good at putting a glancing hit per turn on a monolith. If you accomplish that you are doing pretty good.

Darrian

What I've learned, if the monolith is too much of a bother to destroy then don't bother with it. necrons are tough & tougher with a lith. bu phase out is here for a reason. Just focus fire and ope for the most.

Darrian13 wrote:Sniper fex's are very efficient at dealing with monoliths. 2 S:10 VC's and a S:8 BS are pretty good at putting a glancing hit per turn on a monolith. If you accomplish that you are doing pretty good.

Darrian

Will beg to differ here. Very efficient is not the word I'd use. Barely adequate is more like it. Not too much better than killing necrons when it comes down to it.

Big bugs have a very rough game against 'crons unless they brought the 2+ flyrant and/or some other 2+ save guys. Particularly if the Lith is there to re-wbb the immortals.

If you expose your monoliths to shooting early, you are asking for trouble. Why you'd do it against Tau especially concerns me, you should be downing their vehicles with your Immortals then bringing the Monoliths out.

I've been messing around with a speed freaks army idea that has 6 trukk mobs with red paint and power claws as it's core. This beat the snot out of a necron list with destroyers and a lith at 1500 points on a city terrain board. The necrons were doomed from turn 2, when I started hitting their lines. They blew up a lot of trukks, but it didn't much matter when the boys piled out and slammed into the pansies in close combat. Two pk nobs managed to immobilise the 'lith and then kill it in the next turn, and my biker boss made an awful mess of the destroyers. Six trukks is a lot for a necron player to deal with.

Edit to add:
I reckon grey knights are a good match for orks now. They have a lot of long range, mobile AP5 dakka, and when you hit them with a mob they can generally clear the killzone before you can murderize them. They also have that nasty holocaust power.
Necrons lack the range on the shooty and aren't as tough in assault.

I finally got my game in against the new Codex Orks last night.

Gamma secure and control, 5 objectives scattered around the midpoint

Offensive Crons:

20 warriors
18 Immortals
9 Destroyers
3 Heavy D's
Deceiver

Orks:
Warboss on bike w/all trimmings
2 20 man Stormboyz squads w/Nob + PK and BP
2 30 man Shoota squads w/Nob + PK and BP
2 10 man Loota squads
1 Dreadnought
3 Killa Kans w/KMB
3 Zap guns

My list was more optimized than his, but it didn't feel like his army was awful. Game was a massacre though, think I lost 8 Necrons. Can't believe I endured 3 months of trash talk from this guy for such a letdown.

I think Longshot, et al have the right of it, Necrons are alright against Orks. With their mobile firewpower Necrons can make it very hard to advance behind cover, and the Orks pretty much can't touch them at range. If the Orks blitz the field the Necrons just need one round of fire to cut down one unit, and the other gets handled with whatever the Necron flavor of assault insurance is (Veil out, Deceiver, Lith)

In particular: C'tan are strong against Orks.

NB finally has an enemy he likes. They can't come within 6" of him without getting tossed on their trash, and he can kill swathes of them. Not a big deal, since nobody plays him, but its funny to note that he might make his points back at last.

Much more importantly, the Orks can't really answer the Deceiver shuffle. He attacks, kills some dudes, lets the klaw scratch his itches, Orks pile in, he misdirects, Necrons gun down Orks, he does it to the next squad. If there are too many Orks left he can reengage the same squad. Its brutal.

I'm not saying offensive crons dominate Orks, but I think they belong at the same table. Terrain disposition is key.

Forgot to mention key factor in Necrons favor:

Necrons can walk backwards and fire. Ordinarily the Orks only have to take one round of fire from stationary bolters or the enemy stepping forward and rapid firing them. If marines et al walk backwards they can't reach the volley. Immortals/Destroyers don't suffer from this, so they can get an extra round or so of fire on the orks...devastating.

Old Zogwort would put the fear of god in me, if I was a necron player.

Odd that we had such different experiences. But then, my opponent didn't use a C'tan.

Most people are really, really terrible with Necrons. The army requires more thinking than one would expect looking at the rules.

My theory on that is that it is incredibly easy to play a B game with Necrons. The army is, to my mind, the easiest army to play in the entire game.

In addition, Necrons played badly do well against other races played badly. If both people don't know what they are doing the more durable army wins, good one crons.

However, like anything else played badly, they get plowed under by other races playing well. Its easy to judge the codex based on the extremely prevalent bad Necron players. They are bad because they've never needed to become good, WBB and gauss gets it done against mediocre foes, and they are satisfied to lose to local strongmen.

This is, of course, a sweeping generalization, but mostly I want to echo Longshot's statement that most people are really, really, bad with Necrons.

Maybe your foe was excellent, and you were just even better. Alternatively, maybe my foe is a bumbling dolt. Lots of reasons we can have different experiences. Wasn't your game a Cityfight too? That's a kick in the teeth for the crons.

As to Old Zogwort...yes and no. On the one hand, that curse is annoying. Each and every Necron IC is utterly precious, and since they normally don't die its likely that the foe only has 1 C'tan/Lord. On the other, he's a footslogger and he takes up an HQ slot, so that cuts down on the Bike Bomb stuff. He's got to get within 18" of a Necron gun line, and he has to be with a unit to get his psyker powers off consistently. I haven't faced him yet, but I don't dread him as much as 2 Biker Bosses. Those things are incredibly deadly.

Played a game last week vs a very good tounament style cron list. 1750

lord orb
2 units of immortals
2 x 19 warrior units
3 destroyers
2 units of scarabs
lith in reserve

What cost me the game was taking a mob of nobs on bikes. That I totally screwed up with. They were a total non-factor in the game which meant I was really only playing with 1250 points. I honestly don't have a good excuse for taking them other then that I had finished modeling them. They won't be appearing in any more lists for me.

The tactical problem that I encountered was what I always have a problem with when facing crons with orks. Teleporting out of combat and then getting rapid fired. As the mobs were large enough I wasn't running, but they were getting gutted, while he was bringing them back through the portal. One turn he had failed 8 WBBs, teleported them and got every single one back.

By dropping the nobs and adding a second stormboyz mob and a unit of lootas (which I didn't have modeled up at the time of the game), I think the next time I play him I should be able to get the W (barring the dice of course). Teleporting out of CC is the worst thing for the orks.

well, my standard 2k necron list runs 2 liths and 24 scarabs. i can't say i'd be sad to see orks become a bigger part of the metagame.

i think people are making too much of deepstriking flux bombs. totally the wrong way to use liths against orks. you can't control when it lands and it doesn't do as much damage as you might think once it does. start the liths on the table and block assaults, you'll get plenty of shooting done in any case. it's against tau that you want to deepstrike.

i find scarabs hurt orks more than liths. i tie up one flank, redeploy away from it, then shoot up the other half of the army. footsloggers that have to walk to you twice are dead in the water.

Necrons Vs. Footsloggers I could see being a relatively tough match up, but it just seems to me that necrons lack the firepower to stop 6 trukks. We were playing on a city board, but it wasn't CoD, and some of the terrain in the middle was Size 2.
I don't think my opponent was particularly bad, but I've been obsessing about the new orks for ages now which probably gave me a bit of an edge.

Necrons lack the firepower to stop six trucks?

Look at 40ke's Necron list. It's guarenteed to kill six trukks per turn, pretty much.

Only if the ork player is dumb enough to expose his trukks to being shot. And as long as the trukks only get shot on the second or third turn, there's not much the necron player can do to stop the orks fleeting and catching him in close combat, where weight of attacks will bring enough down to bring victory. The relative expense of each necron unit means that while the ork player can afford to lose one or two units, the necron player cannot.

I do see your point about necrons being easy to play okay with and that they can be very nasty if played well.
I suppose I probably need more experience against them.

trukks are another good example of why i consider scarabs to be the necron list's mvps. blowing up a bunch of trukks and then finding enough firepower to shoot up the orks that hop out is hard. unless of course three of those trukk boy mobs gets assaulted by swarms, then all of a sudden you have a very manageable number of orks to deal with.

For fun (since the wife won't let me buy any more models until we have at least three of our eight armies completely painted), I made the ork list that terrified me.

At 2k points, it had 200+ foot sloggers (6 squads of 30 boyz with pk nob, 2 RL, and 1 BS), and included Snikrot to be able to get charges from the "safe" table side. I also included 2x warphead, in the hopes of the free waagh moves, although 2x kffmek would cost the same and might be more useful. In the event that I ever show up to a tournament and someone starts digging out something that looks like this, I'm going to hope that he moves slowly, because I don't have the models to beat such a list.

The only list I was able to make that I thought had a decent chance to deal with that ork list and still be somewhat of an all-comers list was a necron list (max destroyers and two monoliths for the "Lith of Fury" defense). I considered SM, eldar, tau, tyranids, CSM, and DA (double wing). The only one that came close was HB-spam SM, and that isn't srong enough to be useful against other lists to be a reasonable all-comers list.

As Mauleed, I can't consider ever using using less than the max number of boyz in a squad: 30 foot sloggers or 12 trukk boyz. (It's also hard for me to consider taking less than 180 boyz, since they cover almost 30% of the board at ~1.5" spacing (if my math is right), meaning that nobody is going to be able to avoid them for long enough to make a difference.)

Tiderian wrote: (It's also hard for me to consider taking less than 180 boyz, since they cover almost 30% of the board at ~1.5" spacing (if my math is right), meaning that nobody is going to be able to avoid them for long enough to make a difference.)

Now measure side to side. You move 6". When two units on one flank die, what happens?

It's a pretty standard defense against the Ork horde concept, if you can crush two squads in two turns you'll breathe alot easier.

First off, corinth has it right.

The best use of Monoliths vs. Orks is to keep them back, recycling Necrons that took casualties, and to block assaults if it comes to that.

I think that Necrons with Monoliths will have an easier time dealing with just about any Ork build, especially fast assault ones. That said, I don't think Monoliths are crucial against all Ork armies, certainly destroyer based lists can do just fine and can out maneuver footsloggers. They just have to be careful of things they can't shoot (like hiding Trukks, or Storm Boyz with good hiding spots as they advance).

Certainly the Necrons can be fast enough to move away from the threat, and if there is a threat on both flanks, they can overload one flank and blast the ever living hell out of just about any credible threat the Orks can produce.