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But, but, but... they have women ?

M.

JD21290 wrote:no offence doc, but thats bollocks, you cant stop terrorism.

its one of those things that will allways be around.
instill fear to control.
if they know that they will lose a % of thier population every time they do something then they will stop.

hitla may have done alot of things that were not only wrong, but psychopathic, but in the end he gained control of his country through fear.
if we can do that then it will cut down all of this crap.
not saying its right, but it will work.

sorry my oppinions are harsh, but after losing a brother in all of this my views are swayed somewhat.

Sorry to hear about your brother, but you probably need a bit of time to work through your thoughts before deciding on a sweeping political philosophy.

Regimes built on fear are inherently unstable, and rely on ruthless internal suppression to be maintained. They are more violent and more chaotic than the alternative.

And ultimately people aren't cowed by fear. Hitler's regime didn't simply scare the people into line, many agreed with his arguments, and most agreed enough not to look at what was really happening. In contrast, look at the impact of purely fear based campaigns - they're utterly ineffective every single time. What the response of the US to the terrifying events of 9/11? It wasn't submission. What about the bombing of London... not submission.

JD21290 wrote:the queen s actually german of some descrption.
kinda funny that the queen of england isnt english.

Not quite. She has German heritage, as well as ties to most other royal families. You get that after multiple generations of marriage between royal families to ensure alliances.

But that doesn't make her 'not English'. Anymore than me having English and German heritage makes me 'not Australian'. I was born here, therefore I am Australian.

How did you lose your brother in all this? Was he a soldier or a civilian caught in some terrorist act?

Bit odd to make a fuss about gamers making use of WW2 german model kits when GW have based several figures on the subject. Several of the IG officers wear uniforms and trench coats that appear based on german officers, then there's the old ork Stormboyz which are obviously wehrmacht and the Steel Legion which are based on fallschirmjager.

And people who can't dissociate the nazi party from the german army, don't forget the germans were conscripting too, the public at large didn't know a lot of what the nazis were doing in secret and the main thing on a lot of people's minds was that we were bombing their wives and children. For instance, few fought harder than those flying over Berlin trying to take down our bombers, for many the priority wasn't being a nazi.

So if someone uses a WW2 german kit in a conversion, people need to chill. Most people build these kits into the models they are supposed to be, if you think someone covering it in bolters and skullz is somehow pandering to nazism then what of people who build the models as accurate representations of the real thing, are they neo-nazis? All rather childish and self-righteous IMO.

Howard A Treesong wrote:And people who can't dissociate the nazi party from the german army

I don't think anyone has said they are the same. What has been said is that they are not without their share of guilt, that somehow the Wermacht is absolved of any wrongdoing. There are several books about the role of the Wermacht, as well as the desire to try and separate it from the actions it took under Nazi leadership during that time period.

Howard A Treesong wrote:the public at large didn't know a lot of what the nazis were doing in secret

No, they just knew what they were doing overtly, which was pretty bad already.

With the trouble being you objected to it and it was done to you. And your Family. And your Dogs family.

Howard A Treesong wrote:Bit odd to make a fuss about gamers making use of WW2 german model kits when GW have based several figures on the subject. Several of the IG officers wear uniforms and trench coats that appear based on german officers, then there's the old ork Stormboyz which are obviously wehrmacht and the Steel Legion which are based on fallschirmjager.

And people who can't dissociate the nazi party from the german army, don't forget the germans were conscripting too, the public at large didn't know a lot of what the nazis were doing in secret and the main thing on a lot of people's minds was that we were bombing their wives and children. For instance, few fought harder than those flying over Berlin trying to take down our bombers, for many the priority wasn't being a nazi.

So if someone uses a WW2 german kit in a conversion, people need to chill. Most people build these kits into the models they are supposed to be, if you think someone covering it in bolters and skullz is somehow pandering to nazism then what of people who build the models as accurate representations of the real thing, are they neo-nazis? All rather childish and self-righteous IMO.

There's two issues there that you're conflating.

First up, modelling an army doesn't equate to supporting it. Thinking a jagdpanther or the uniform of the Afrika Korp looked pretty cool doesn't mean you fantasize about lebensraum. Besides, if people couldn't model the Germans who would the Brits and Americans fight against in FoW?

But that doesn't relate to the actions of the German army during WWII. Simply put, they committed a wide range of atrocities, across multiple theatres as a direct result of a really messed up military culture. It doesn't mean everyone who joined the German army went around eating nuns, but it doesn't mean the organisation as a whole shouldn't be criticised because there were humane people in there. That line of thought leads to every organisation being deemed 'mostly good'.

It's like that hoo-ha over the F1 Boss and the Hookers.

Apparently, it had 'Nazi Overtones'. Maybe I'm just forward thinking, but somehow a 6 foot Dominatrix in a Leather Trench Coat spanking someone is hardly reminiscent of The Third Reich and it's Final Solution.

so if you use WW2 nazi stuff for added bits and conversions you are a nazi.....
on this note, i think my guard army will have.
1st platoon.
1st squad. steel legion guard painted up with lots of gray, mounted in a chimey half track converted from somehting WW2 german.

2nd squad. valhallan painted up wioth lots of brown and red.... warrior weapons ware every one has a hammer in one hand, and a sickel in another. mounted on a chimey converted from a T34.

3rd squad. tallern. painted up in light brown / sandy camo. mounted on.... goats??? everyone has an auto gun that looks like an AK-47.

4th squad. cadian. painted up with a lot of green, with a star on one of the shoulder pads. they get to ride in a hummer.

5th squad. squats..... just because

there, i am a nazi, commie, terrioist, dwarf hating republican (important note, america is not a democracy, we are a republic)... nazmieoistlican.

***VOTE ENVY89 FOR PERZ 09** i am running on the nazmieoistlican platfourm... i cant be racist, i hate EVERYONE.

hear are a few quotes for yall

For my part, I consider that it will be found much better by all parties to leave the past to history, especially as I propose to write that history myself. -Churchill-

History will be kind to me for I intend to write it. -Churchill-

In wartime, truth is so precious that she should always be attended by a bodyguard of lies. -Churchill-

When you are winning a war almost everything that happens can be claimed to be right and wise. -Churchill-



you got to dig deeper then the history books people. the historys books only show what the victor wants to be shown.

jfrazell wrote:

IAmTheWalrus wrote:

jfrazell wrote:Of course its also good to remember in the war mentioned it wasn't the US/GB/Australia that set up death camps and killed whole populations.

No death camps for the U.S. but they sure had no qualms about concentration camps. Didn't kill many people but they sure did imprison an entire population.

Wow no moral equivalency there...

Germans kill millions upon millions
Japanese kill millions.

We (incorrect) detain Japanese and some Germans/Italians. We pay reparations to the Japanese Americans. But we're equally bad to the Germans and Japanese?

As the epic phrase goes
"NUTS!"

I'm not trying to say that we're just as bad as the Germans and the Japanese in the war crimes department, I'm just trying to point out that our moral high ground isn't quite as high as most people think.

We freed what % of the Earth's surface from murderous tyranny again? I think its justly pretty high.

Assuming Japan and Germany both conquered about 10 times their original territory?

Germany = 357,021 km2
Japan = 377,835 km2


So

3,570,210 km2
+ 3,778,350 km2
_________________

7,348,560 km2


Total Surface Area of the Earth = 510,065,600 km2

So we freed approximately 0.0144% of Earth's surface from murderous tyranny.

land area. Lets back that into continents:
-Western Europe
-Northern Africa
-East and Far East Asia

Honorable mentions: keeping the Japanese out of India and Australia.

Britain did more than that when we lost the Empire.

Well, we didn't lose it per se. The Countries are still there. You can't, to my knowledge, actually misplace a Continent or Subcontinent.

jfrazell wrote:We freed what % of the Earth's surface from murderous tyranny again? I think its justly pretty high.

You did? You did a solid job on beating the Japs (though looking at their losses in China it was pretty clear their Empire was never sustainable). But you didn't beat the Germans, that claim goes to a different murderous tyranny in Soviet Russia (although you did help out by sending them a lot of trucks).

Yup.

Thats true. The Americans and Brits just stayed out of that one. Oh wait they didn't...

just realised this was still going strong.

Ahtman, my brother was a R.E.M.E (engineer) and his squad was posted to go on a quick tour and he tagged along out of interest.
ended up caught in a fire fight and died along with 2 other UK soldiers.

JF- of course, but anyone who’s studied WWII at all will tell you most of the heavy lifting was done by the Russians. Germany beat up its own military attacking Russia, Russia took it, turned them back, and then marched back to Berlin. We and the English certainly fought hard, but simply saying “we beat the Germans” or “we freed Europe from Facism” is misleading to the point of historical inaccuracy.

jfrazell wrote:We freed what % of the Earth's surface from murderous tyranny again? I think its justly pretty high.

And helped perpetuate a communist dictatorship that threatened us with nuclear warfare and attempted thrust its ideology upon the rest of the world.

And how would we have changed that?

JD21290 wrote:just realised this was still going strong.

Ahtman, my brother was a R.E.M.E (engineer) and his squad was posted to go on a quick tour and he tagged along out of interest.
ended up caught in a fire fight and died along with 2 other UK soldiers.

Bless you and your family then.

Grignard wrote:

jfrazell wrote:We freed what % of the Earth's surface from murderous tyranny again? I think its justly pretty high.

And helped perpetuate a communist dictatorship that threatened us with nuclear warfare and attempted thrust its ideology upon the rest of the world.

Same could be said of the United States though. Numerous attempted Coups around the World to enforce Democracy. I do believe North Vietnam Democratically elected a Communist Government.....

jfrazell wrote:Thats true. The Americans and Brits just stayed out of that one. Oh wait they didn't...

You stated the US freed the world. I pointed out the Soviets did most of the work. Now you're pretending I was ignoring the US and British contribution?

Come on.

Envy89 wrote:you got to dig deeper then the history books people. the historys books only show what the victor wants to be shown.

You should try taking your own advice. Just because something was recorded by the "victor" doesn't automatically make it wrong.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Same could be said of the United States though. Numerous attempted Coups around the World to enforce Democracy. I do believe North Vietnam Democratically elected a Communist Government.....

And let's not even get started on South America. We did a number down there during the Cold War. Had a proseminar on US - Latin America Relations and the stuff the CIA pulled in the 60's~80's is nuts. Good times.

And this is the curse of an educated mind.

We can see the same things going on, and nobody batting an eyelid.

Sadly, propaganda is very much part of the human condition, and quite possibly a necessary evil.

Mannahnin wrote:. We and the English certainly fought hard, .

British, not English.

Whilst the actions of the allies did indeed help the communist regime in the USSR survive in the short term, they were also the main people who then spent the next few decades standing up to said evil empire.

I still don't understand the USA's aversion to Communism.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:I still don't understand the USA's aversion to Communism.

Because some people feel that it is a soul crushing concept that requires the sacrifice of the individual for someone else's opinion of what the common good is. It has a pretty bad track record, which perhaps is an unfair association with the Soviet Union and the PRC, of respect for individual life and liberty.

It is a philosophy that reduces everything down to a struggle between those who own the means of production and those who actually do the producing. That is a little one dimensional.

Many people in countries with an aversion to Communism are religious, and would have an issue with the atheism associated with it. ( Its been a long time since I've read the Manifesto, does anyone who knows more about it know if that is a Communist thing or just a PRC/Russia thing?)

I have poor playground skills and I don't like to share.