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yakface wrote:

I just think the WORLD of Fallout is so amazing that if they had made every last effort to make sure you were constantly 'in it' and living through the time then the game would be absolutely majestic and part of that would be getting rid of the non-real time combat (and the ability to pause the game to swap weapons).

I would hate for this game to lose it's turn based options. Its what made me enjoy fallout. What you are talking about it making a "Better than WOW" game with quick mapped keys that players would have to learn, develop macro's etc. While that may give the player more of an immersive feeling with the "oh sh*& I can't take a wrong step" feeling, you'd lose out on a massive player base who aren't interested in that kind of play. The game is all about you and built on your association with your character, why take away from that by making you an insignificant part of the worlds mechanics?

On a side note, I have found a couple of glitches involving water and enemies. You can lead an enemy to water, then run around to the side facing them from where they cannot get up...and simply shoot them mercilessly. The AI doesn't solve that problem well at all. Also enemies seem to become frozen in the water, sometimes hovering above it too.

I don't know why people think there's an ammo shortage... I'm loaded down with like metric tons of it, even for my spray-n-pray guns. It's literally all over, in addition to what you can buy. I have yet to use the Rock-It Launcher, because why use an imrpovised gun when the real ones are well-supplied?

yakface wrote:Speaking of that:

Is there a way for you to fix your own gear (I think that's what you're talking about) or do you always have to pay someone to fix it for you?

Deadshane1 wrote:fix your own gear by combining...

Assault rifle breaking down? shoot as many enemies as you can with assault rifles and "use the good parts from those guns to replace the broken down bits on yours".

The better answer would be to press 'R' over an inventory item that you have a duplicate of. Its condition as well as your repair skill affects how much the item is actually repaired, and the worse one is discarded. I was just paying people because I didn't bother to read the survival guide for three days. You must be in the same boat, so to speak.

A little late to the punch but i have spent most of my waking hours playing the game so my work has suffered a little and have had no free time. But none the less this has to be one of my top ten games of my lifetime. Now 26 years isnt a really long time but i have been playing video games since i was 7 and at the moment own all the consoles. I have also played fallout since the first one and even played the horrible version on the first xbox.

Truly though i couldnt have expected a better game. I was hesatent at first when i heard interplay went under and wasnt doing it and then when bethesda picked it up i thought "great now i get to play oblivin..... in the future :S" but so far 15 levels in i have no complaints and still a whole load to do. I have yet to try it on the 360 but i do prefer the ps3 over the computer. Mainly cause it has been so long since i have done a FPS on the computer.

lord_sutekh wrote:I don't know why people think there's an ammo shortage... I'm loaded down with like metric tons of it, even for my spray-n-pray guns. It's literally all over, in addition to what you can buy. I have yet to use the Rock-It Launcher, because why use an imrpovised gun when the real ones are well-supplied?

Because it's hilarious to peg a raider in the head with an old soup can?

I've played every game in the Fallout series, excepting Fallout:BoS, and I've been waiting impatiently for a new chapter in the Fallout universe for some time. I have my opinions but I really needed to think about this one because my opinions fall on so many levels, ergo it isn't simply a question of "is it good, or bad?".

First off, I have never played a game that was as compelling and engrossing as this one is, period. I'm embarrassed about it, but sometimes it takes real effort to stop playing at night and get in bed at a reasonable hour. I'm reluctant to compare it to Oblivion, for reasons that will be clear later, but that seems the natural comparison to make. Oblivion was a great game, but, to me, it still felt "gamey". Fallout 3, on the other hand, has true immersion, in my opinion. I know that is interesting as some people find that some aspects of the game feel "gamey" to them ( V.A.T.S comes immediately to mind ). I guess what draws you in is different for each player. I certainly can't explain it. I will speculate that while I don't think the world is actually any bigger than oblivion, I think it feels bigger. The ruined urban landscape can squeeze an enormous amount of content into a tiny space. For instance, in the game you might be in a "safe" encampment, all the while knowing that just a city block over might be a raider stronghold full of people who despise all things civilized, just waiting to take everything you have. The ruined metro tunnels are a great touch. There is something very evocative about scavving through these tunnels, and something feels very realistic to me about it. I also think this is an environment that most of us are familiar with through films of the fighting toward the end of WWII. I may not like to think about it, but I also couldn't help being reminded of the terrorist attacks in 2001. I'm not about to suggest the designers intentionally tried to evoke that, but I wouldn't be surprised if it has at least fleetingly passed through most players minds. The end result, for whatever reason, is to me it all adds up to an engrossing and occasionally disturbing experience.

Another aspect I'm absolutely in love with is the combat. I believe Bethesda took a big risk with this, in fact, it was a big risk mixing turn based and real time action in any format. For what it is worth, I have never before played a mixed system like this that I thought worked. X-COM apocalypse was the only game like this I could tolerate at all, and even that one I believe should never have had a real time option. I've never been impressed at all with any other game like that. Somehow though, it works for me with Fallout 3. I firmly believe that whoever came up with the idea for VATS is damn genius.

Before I get into quibbles I have with the game, it is worth mentioning that while the game has been well received by reviewers in general, among the hard core Fallout fans it is not nearly as popular. Go over to one of the fan sites like Duck and Cover, and you'll find about a 50/50 split, it seems, between hate and love. It seems like the feelings about it tend toward extremes, with not a lot of middle ground. All I can say is it seems slightly better received than Tactics, and not nearly as universally reviled as Fallout:BoS. Really, to me it is no matter. The fact is that I don't believe there is any group of gamers on the internet that are as nihilistic, cranky, bitter, and jaded as the Fallout fandom. I think it is frankly astonishing that anyone in the community has played it at all. As is, those who say they bought the game on the forums are opening themselves up for all manner of abuse from people who think that you should only download a warez copy, in order to give a big f.u. to Bethesda. The unavoidable fact, I believe, is the game isn't isometric, isn't from Interplay, and isn't turn based. Of course, suggesting this will earn you the title of Bethesda fanboi, and an irate tirade about all the REAL reasons Fallout 3 sucks. I'm just not buying it. They won't admit it, but sooooooo many Fallout fans are conservative in the extreme. To make a political analogy, if you mix Sara Palin, a Midwestern banker, and Jerry Falwell together, you'll come up with your average Fallout fan. Time moves on. The fact is that you're just not going to be able to put a 2-D RPG out on the shelves at Best Buy. You're certainly not going to spend millions of dollars to do so. There are great games being produced that are exactly like that, and I enjoy them immensely, but it is the terrain of indie game developers. My response is " What is better, accepting Bethesda's Fallout, or demanding a Fallout just like the first two, and not getting any game at all". The long and short of it is that Fallout fan forums are the only gaming forums I find physically painful to read. They seem to forget that it was Interplay that is widely regarded as killing the franchise, squatting over the corpse, and taking a crap, in the form of Fallout:BoS.

I do have some minor quibbles, but most of them are indeed minor. My most significant of quibbles is the treatment of Super Mutants. This is the one real "sin" I think was made. They're orcs. They don't look anything like the Super Mutants of the established canon, and from what I've seen so far they're just anonymous bad guys. I haven't finished the game, so there very well might be a lot more detail on the Muties, so I'm holding back judgement a little bit on that one.

Quibble 2 is the Brotherhood of Steel. At least Bethesda got the knightly order part of it right. The fact is that the Brotherhood of Steel never fought the "good fight". They had nothing to do with protecting anyone. The Brotherhood is all about collecting and preserving technology. If you're looking for the protectors, in the original canon it is the New California Republic, it is most certainly not the Brotherhood of Steel. They're mystic warriors. It is that simple. What keeps this from being an unforgivable sin is that ( SPOILER ! ) the outcasts have broken away and are closer to the original mission, while the "good fight" Brotherhood is that way due to their leader. I can deal with it.

I believe the original developers knew something about firearms. It seems like they at least flipped through Shooters Bible, or Cartridges of the World, or some other similar title. They had many real world firearms in the second game, and in both the games the fictional firearms and weapons were very reasonable speculations. The idea of having different types of bullets ( JHP, hollowpoint, FMJ, etc) was very cool. There was even an "alternate universe" feel with the 10mm auto ammo being extremely common, as opposed to 9x19mm in our world. 10mm auto is a real round. In fact, shortly before Fallout came out, the FBI and various US law enforcement agencies were toying with the idea of going to 10mm auto. Springfield armory made a 10mm auto 1911 style handgun, in fact. In our world, however, most of them went with the .40 Smith & Wesson ( aka Short & Wimpy ), also a 10mm bullet, or the .357 Sig, a very cool round that should be in every FPS game, IMHO. In any case I found that aspect of Fallout I and II very cool. Bethesda did not do nearly as well. At one point a BoS sniper speculates on whether or not a hollowpoint rifle round will penetrate an Enclave power armor helmet at a great distance. Well.....no, but asking that question about a jacketed round would be a more reasonable speculation. I am not familiar with a common .32 caliber round that will go in both a revolver and a rifle and perform so differently.

I know that it is a fantasy world, and an alternate universe in that, but I think Bethesda should have done more research. It was neat finding real life guns in the original fallout games, and even cooler than that were the speculative weapons they came up with. I think it was completely awesome picking up a Glock plasma pistol, or a Westinghouse laser rifle. I seem to remember another sci-fi weapon being from GE or Honeywell, or something simliar like that. All the weapons in F3 seem homemade, which is cool in and of itself, but there should also have been pre-war toys. I know it is 200 years after, but there is no reason a properly stored firearm can't remain functional for a very long time, and I don't think it would be unreasonable to speculate that someone in Megaton would be stamping out Grease Guns, or something, based on old designs. I know, I'm a gun nut ( second perk I picked in the game, btw ), so probably 99% of players didn't give a rat's ass, but the Interplay guys apparently did.

The miniature nuclear weapons and the mushroom cloud farting cars is kind of gay in my opinion, but you have to admit, it is cool. Perhaps it is cool in the same way the Village People used to be cool. No big deal, I'm ok with it.

All and all, the best game I've played in 10 years ( Yes, including HL2, Portal, etc ). I'm suprised it is doing as well as it is, given that I think it is properly enjoyed by someone with a nihilistic and Sisyphean world-view, like myself. If you haven't played it, drop whatever you're doing now, say goodbye to your wife and kids for a month, and go buy it.

*Minor Spoilers*





The Brotherhood of Steel you find in the Capital Wastes is not the Brotherhood of Steel that came from California. Elder Lyons decided to abandon his mission of finding technology and returning home, to devoting his cause to saving the people of the Capital Wastes. Your father had a project that Lyons supported; but left after you were born.

The Super Mutants are also a different strain of the FEV, hence why they differ from the ones you find in the other games. Even the Centaurs are different, having taken a different mutational path it seems.

Kanluwen wrote:*Minor Spoilers*





The Brotherhood of Steel you find in the Capital Wastes is not the Brotherhood of Steel that came from California. Elder Lyons decided to abandon his mission of finding technology and returning home, to devoting his cause to saving the people of the Capital Wastes. Your father had a project that Lyons supported; but left after you were born.

The Super Mutants are also a different strain of the FEV, hence why they differ from the ones you find in the other games. Even the Centaurs are different, having taken a different mutational path it seems.

Alright, I've gotten as far as the Citadel, so that isn't a spoiler. I haven't gotten any information on the different strain of FEV or the Super Mutants in general.

You don't until the quest following "The Waters of Life" and the ensuing trek to a Vault.

My overall opinions are basically what Grignard expressed in that post (big one), which I certainly couldn't have been bothered to type.

Your avatar hit me for a natural 20 on the Intimidate check.

yakface wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:So I finished it just a few minutes ago.

The ending is kind of a letdown, as the game just...stops.
And I can't use that character again to keep exploring the world, as you can do in Oblivion at the end of the storyline.
I dunno, maybe when they add more content you'll be able to.
But it's disappointing to lose your unique Gatling Laser just because the game stops :(

Man, that is a damn shame. There is so much cool stuff in this game that you think it would be a no-brainer to leave it 'open' after the game is finished to allow people to finish up seeing anything they missed. I'm assuming the story kind of hits a point at the end where they can't come back from to let you continue to wander around? If not, there really isn't any excuse.

Do not overworry about this.

Having not played the game, but seeing how Bethesda works I can all but guarantee there will be add ons. as it is similar to Oblivion expect something similar to Knights of the Nine or whatever.

I dont know the storyline (and DONT want to find out) but comments on how the game suddenly just ends makes sense. Ib think it is not an ending, just a savepoint.

Bethesda invested a lot in Fallout and while we may well see Fallout 4 in time we will see expansions much sooner. Explansion cost a fraction of the initial outlay cost for the game development, yet make a very good return on their own. When the expansion comes along your character will be ready where he left off. This leads me to beleive the expansion will likely be a direct plot continuation - different sotry line fresh goals, new maps etc. Hopefully you will still be able to backtrack.

No obvious mention of the possibility of mods, though. No launcher option for game files. I haven't heard any mention of it. Fallout 3's world was more 'expendable'; you know, the world runs out of ammo and you have to depend on encounters. The cars only blow up once. It's a bloody big world, but I think any real Fallout fan would just start a new character.
That's what disappoints me most about F3 - there are about three viable character paths. VATs is kind of silly in melee, not to mention you're forced into standing still and you CAN'T AIM. Playing hard-arsed, bullet-wearing bare-knuckled brawlers was great in the original engine. So much for breaking people's hips with a sledgehammer now.

On a lighter note, some of the repairs are just silly. I want to know just how come I can have two knives at 80% condition, and I can just sacrifice one to make the other 90% or so. With complicated weapons/armour it sort of makes sense... but what about tyre irons? Do you just melt them together? And does anyone know if you can combine anything to repair the Eyebot helmet?

Orlanth wrote:

yakface wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:So I finished it just a few minutes ago.

The ending is kind of a letdown, as the game just...stops.
And I can't use that character again to keep exploring the world, as you can do in Oblivion at the end of the storyline.
I dunno, maybe when they add more content you'll be able to.
But it's disappointing to lose your unique Gatling Laser just because the game stops :(

Man, that is a damn shame. There is so much cool stuff in this game that you think it would be a no-brainer to leave it 'open' after the game is finished to allow people to finish up seeing anything they missed. I'm assuming the story kind of hits a point at the end where they can't come back from to let you continue to wander around? If not, there really isn't any excuse.

Do not overworry about this.

Having not played the game, but seeing how Bethesda works I can all but guarantee there will be add ons. as it is similar to Oblivion expect something similar to Knights of the Nine or whatever.

I dont know the storyline (and DON'T want to find out) but comments on how the game suddenly just ends makes sense. I think it is not an ending, just a savepoint.

Bethesda invested a lot in Fallout and while we may well see Fallout 4 in time we will see expansions much sooner. Expansion cost a fraction of the initial outlay cost for the game development, yet make a very good return on their own. When the expansion comes along your character will be ready where he left off. This leads me to beleive the expansion will likely be a direct plot continuation - different storyline fresh goals, new maps etc. Hopefully you will still be able to backtrack.

Actually, it *does* just end. There is a save point right before the cutscene at the end; and then once the cutscene ends...
Credits roll.
Fin

WAY TO SPOIL IT BAKER! WAY TO SPOIL IT!

Every time you log onto the Internet, there should be a spoiler warning in general.

Man, the Internet spoils everything for me.

I once found out Jesus really wasn't resurrected, and that was the descent of my sanity :(

Not sure if Achilles is joking or not (I hope he is) but just in case I put a spoiler tag onto his comments.

Kanluwen wrote:
Actually, it *does* just end. There is a save point right before the cutscene at the end; and then once the cutscene ends...
Credits roll.
Fin

Exactly that. If I am guessing right you will automatically get a final save at or just before the end, you might not even be asked to save, you may just get the save. If I am really on the money the save will be marked differently as a filename so you know its a final save, if not the computer will know anyway.

In any event that savegame prepares your character for instant start on the main quest of the first expansion. If you complete the game multiple times the expansion will sift through and find all your endsave characters and give you the choice of which to port into the next episode of the game.

Sudden ending makes sense this way.

It is very possible that the first expansion will be online download and free and avialble in about 4-6 months time. This will give the game second wind which will have a knock on effect on new sales as players are brought back to Fallout thus keeping it in the minds eye for those yet to purchase. Otherwise and regardless you will need to wait about 8-12 months for the first expansion pack, with another the following year, possibly even a third. This will give a tie over to keep a good wait time of 2-3 years before Fallout 4.
That is what I see as the business plan anyway.

Orlanth wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
Actually, it *does* just end. There is a save point right before the cutscene at the end; and then once the cutscene ends...
Credits roll.
Fin

Exactly that. If I am guessing right you will automatically get a final save at or just before the end, you might not even be asked to save, you may just get the save. If I am really on the money the save will be marked differently as a filename so you know its a final save, if not the computer will know anyway.

In any event that savegame prepares your character for instant start on the main quest of the first expansion. If you complete the game multiple times the expansion will sift through and find all your endsave characters and give you the choice of which to port into the next episode of the game.

Sudden ending makes sense this way.

It is very possible that the first expansion will be online download and free and avialble in about 4-6 months time. This will give the game second wind which will have a knock on effect on new sales as players are brought back to Fallout thus keeping it in the minds eye for those yet to purchase. Otherwise and regardless you will need to wait about 8-12 months for the first expansion pack, with another the following year, possibly even a third. This will give a tie over to keep a good wait time of 2-3 years before Fallout 4.
That is what I see as the business plan anyway.

If you are going to discuss the ENDING OF A GAME, please use spoiler tags to disguise your text.

Yes please, I haven't beaten Fallout 3. Of course, I possibly never will, as I keep getting sidetracked on exploring the world. Sort of like life really.

Kanluwen.

I have not played this game, and do appreciate the spoiler comments.

However the post you quoted was about the BUSINESS PLAN, and not the PLOT.

Is there anything in your reply that refers to that you can post openly. Basically the only thing I can think of that is remotely relevant to the quote and spoilerable is if the game is open to a sequel or not. And that can be said in isolation without revealing anything that requires a spoiler.

Whatever... in a month it will be as irrelevant as the legendary ending of Halo 3... which was lame anyway.

Grignard wrote:Yes please, I haven't beaten Fallout 3. Of course, I possibly never will, as I keep getting sidetracked on exploring the world. Sort of like life really.

And just like real life, the ending sucks.

You're right. Fallout 3 cannot be faulted.

If someone says, "That sucks," you say; "It's a post-apocalyptic wasteland! It's supposed to suck!"

It's almost as good as the 'fusion matter' excuse for the car explosions.