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I honestly don't know.
I'm maybe halfway through the main quest, if I had to guesstimate, and up to level 19. It's entirely possible that it's much much shorter than I've made it by doing side quests; as alot of areas scale the monsters based on the level you are when you first enter it; and then leave them at that level for the rest of your game.

Woop! Enclave Power Armor, Linden's Outcast Power Armor, AND a suit of Tesla Armor.

Thank God I have a house to store all this stuff in

dammit.

Tacobake wrote:dammit.

Now, now Taco. Job first. Covet your neighbor's power armor later.

Just a couple of questions first up…
How do you skip time on the PC?
What does rest/unrested mean. I have a nap because it seems like the sort of thing I should do and the game tells me ‘you feel rested’. I head off and start shooting up raiders, and sooner or later the game tells me ‘you are no longer rested’. That’s all good and well, but what game effect does rested/unrested have?

But I’m loving the game. They got the mood of the original Fallout down perfectly, these pockets of folk trying to rebuild in among these vast patches of anarchy. I’ve had moments of real pathos, when a minor character can make you feel for him in just few minutes of conversation I think you’ve got something pretty exceptional going on.

The graphics help a lot in this regard, in the first two games you were staring at a very limited tileset, all put together in a very ugly brown palette. Here the palette is still muted greys and browns, but is well executed. Sound is near perfect, brilliantly atmospheric.

Fighting is great fun, and VATS helps keep the game focussed on fighting and not on twitch skills. Even if you aren’t using VATS, it’s generally more important to position yourself properly and use the right guns at the right time to win a fight. Unfortunately, like most game it loses verisimilitude from having to shoot regular folk up to ten times to kill them. Punching round after round from my assault gun into the face of a regular bandit and have him keep on fighting is silly.

My only quibble is with the area design. From the early releases the game promised open city blocks, genuinely free roaming gameplay. When I stepped out of the vault I was gobsmacked, because I was staring at a completely open field, it looked like they’d delivered. But I’ve reached Washington, now, and every sidestreet is conveniently blocked by rubble, I’m back on a rail moving from point A to point B. More annoying though, the design manages to hide exactly what that rail is, so I’ve generally only got one way to go, but it isn’t clear where that is. The worst of both worlds.

But that’s just a quibble. The mood and the gameplay have been outstanding so far. I couldn’t rate this game enough.

Well, in order:
There should be a "Wait" function, I think. For 360, it's the 'Select' button. Can't help you with the PC.
Rested means you're gaining a percentage more XP. It doesn't tend to last very long.

And once you get into Washington proper, you end up having to use the Metro tunnels alot to move from one 'zone' to the next. Confused the heck out of me too.

T is the wait button on PC. Isn't it in the manual?

The game comes with a manual?

Pure win! This has turned into a must-buy-now!

hmm i just murdered everyone in MEgaton (except the children it wont let you kill them, oh and the shop keeper and a few quest givers) and the loot wasnt very good at all even after getting the key to the armory..such a shame prehaps i should have just blown the place up

CorporateLogo wrote:T is the wait button on PC. Isn't it in the manual?

It isn't the manual, or if it is I couldn't find it. The manual is really very useless.

Last night once I knew the option was called 'wait' (thankyou Kanluwen) I went to the control customisation and looked up the option. 'T' it is.

99MDeery wrote:hmm i just murdered everyone in MEgaton (except the children it wont let you kill them, oh and the shop keeper and a few quest givers) and the loot wasnt very good at all even after getting the key to the armory..such a shame prehaps i should have just blown the place up

It's cool to know that you can do pretty much anything you want in this game. I was wondering if I could actually kill everyone in a town and exactly what it would be like if I did.

So when you come back to the town is it just completely empty now? You say they won't let you kill the kids so are they still just wandering around the town aimlessly? If you talk to them do they say anything different to you now that you killed everyone?


Hmmm. . .

Maybe I should just save my game and then try killing everyone in town. . .I'm interested to see what it's like.

Talk about morbid curiousity!

Yeah, if you kill the folks in a town; they never come back.
I killed Crowley because he was being a smartmouth to me...and now I can't finish "You Gotta Shoot Them In The Head" :(

RE: the Wait button not being mentioned in the manual

I checked mine last night, and it's on the page with all the keybinds. Though mine is the PC version so I'm not sure if the console versions are different.

Anyone else find this game a little grim?

Sure, it fits. I fully appreciate the gravity of the post nuclear world, and I am a huge fan of dystopia in general. I also like playing dirty in games like these, which seems to have ample possibilities in Fallout 3. I got this game because I'm a huge fan of Oblivion, but this reminds me much more of S.T.A.L.K.E.R. These two seem to share a distinct lack of hope. That's all very well, but it can get depressing. In Oblivion there was a streak of humour, and you could let your guard down much more. Maybe my overnight transition from Fable 2 has amplified the shock to my system.

Anyone else find that? Much as I love taking knives to faces, I want to feel the love too.

Anti-Mag wrote:Anyone else find this game a little grim?

Sure, it fits. I fully appreciate the gravity of the post nuclear world, and I am a huge fan of dystopia in general. I also like playing dirty in games like these, which seems to have ample possibilities in Fallout 3. I got this game because I'm a huge fan of Oblivion, but this reminds me much more of S.T.A.L.K.E.R. These two seem to share a distinct lack of hope. That's all very well, but it can get depressing. In Oblivion there was a streak of humour, and you could let your guard down much more. Maybe my overnight transition from Fable 2 has amplified the shock to my system.

Anyone else find that? Much as I love taking knives to faces, I want to feel the love too.

The game seems very adaptable to me (even though I've played a very rigid 'good' archetype). If you're looking for 'hope' in this game then you need to play the shining hero like I've done.

I haven't robbed, stolen or killed anyone who didn't directly attack me first. I've even given donations to people even though I'm already solidly on the 'good' side of karma.

I've saved people and towns and they all thank me when they see me. Everytime I return to Megaton someone runs up to me and gives me a free item just because of how great they think I am. The radio broadcasts call me a hero.

So in short, I feel like I'm bringing hope to the wasteland one town at a time. In this regard the game world actually feels very hopeful to me. If you want hope, be the person who brings hope to others!

CorporateLogo wrote:RE: the Wait button not being mentioned in the manual

I checked mine last night, and it's on the page with all the keybinds. Though mine is the PC version so I'm not sure if the console versions are different.

I don't think anyone ever said it isn't in the manual. I just said I was shocked they didn't have something so basic and crucial to the game included in a tutorial level. Most games today have a pretty robust tutorial system which means you rarely (if ever) have to crack open the manual. Fallout most certainly does not which is why now when anyone asks me how the game is, I tell them: "great, just make sure you read the manual really carefully because the tutorials suck in the game."

Well that makes sense. I guess the real joy of games like this is the titanic replay value. Out of interest, how far into the game are you with this ''good'' character? Also, I've tried to find a scale that shows your Karma standing, without success. Does it exist, or is it just factored into the games ending?

Yes the karma meter exists. Its in your pip boy on one of the stats pages. Basically its a picture of you and a title like Saviour of the Valut or something to that affect on the right side of one of the screens. My guy is giving the thumbs up and has a halo around his head. I am also playing a "Good" character the first time through. For those who think this game is lacking humour, it might be just because you are missing the funny stuff. A lot of it harkens back to the original fallout 1 and 2 so background in those games will bring even more nastalgic laughs. As well as the priceless vault tech ads and notices in people's mailboxes. To the absolute obserdidty of some of the characters and their beliefes. Last night I ran into a character who was completely a loof and cheery but thinking her great idea was going to help people even though she knew nothing about what she was doing. It had me laughing for a good 5 minutes while talking to her, because all you could hear was Sarah Palin speaking. The voice even sounds like her. I called the wife into the room and asked who this character reminds her of and she quickly caught on to who I thought this character was like and agreed. Plus you got zanny robots of doom (which I'm not going to spoil) and all of the lighter touches that you really have to search for from things like the bobble-heads to cram to nuke cola and other funny parallels that the game draws with our own existence. Don't forget getting drunk or addicted to various things while fighting off some mutants.

Last, Best Hope For Humanity.

It's great to be liked

Yakface:
I don't think anyone ever said it isn't in the manual. I just said I was shocked they didn't have something so basic and crucial to the game included in a tutorial level. Most games today have a pretty robust tutorial system which means you rarely (if ever) have to crack open the manual. Fallout most certainly does not which is why now when anyone asks me how the game is, I tell them: "great, just make sure you read the manual really carefully because the tutorials suck in the game."

i agree it is in the manual for the xbox anyway however i can understand your annoyance at the lack of such a simple game mechanic but if i remember when playing oblivion and that had a longer tutorial section than Fallout you were never told about the wait button either IIRC,

its nice that everyone stays dead so you can murder everyone everywhere and rule over a wasteland alone, like you i am playing the 'good' mercenary type role too, however i think another play through is called for just to see how things change when you decide to be pure evil

in the main quest i've only just arrived a Galaxy News Radio and am leaving it at that for the moment, the other side quests are quite involved, at the moment i am trying to do the wasteland survival guide and have only one quest left, i recommend everyone does that quest as it allows you to gain the Rad Regeneration Perk, and Moria constantly gives you really nice items for each section you complete

I had a look at the game while at a friend's house recently, and it certainly looks awesome. The humour is a definate plus!


--The Overseer--
--The Overseer--
--The Overseer--
--The Overseer--

There’s definitely humour in the game, but for the most part its very black. The previous Fallout games had a lot of goofy humour as well, and lots of in-jokes and references. F3, or at least the parts of the game I’ve experienced so far, have only really kept the black humour.

The other parts of the setting, if anything, are more bleak than the previous Fallouts. Sure, there’s always been hookers, drug abuse and imminent death, but this time the game seems more keen to show you the human face of that suffering.

I've found it very affecting, at times.

Love the game, stayed up till 4:30am the other night playing it and ditched work also!

Well rested gives you a 10% experience bonus I believe.

So I finished it just a few minutes ago.

The ending is kind of a letdown, as the game just...stops.
And I can't use that character again to keep exploring the world, as you can do in Oblivion at the end of the storyline.
I dunno, maybe when they add more content you'll be able to.
But it's disappointing to lose your unique Gatling Laser just because the game stops :(

Kanluwen wrote:So I finished it just a few minutes ago.

The ending is kind of a letdown, as the game just...stops.
And I can't use that character again to keep exploring the world, as you can do in Oblivion at the end of the storyline.
I dunno, maybe when they add more content you'll be able to.
But it's disappointing to lose your unique Gatling Laser just because the game stops :(

Man, that is a damn shame. There is so much cool stuff in this game that you think it would be a no-brainer to leave it 'open' after the game is finished to allow people to finish up seeing anything they missed. I'm assuming the story kind of hits a point at the end where they can't come back from to let you continue to wander around? If not, there really isn't any excuse.

Or maybe because of how many different ways there is to play the game they're trying to encourage you to play again a different way to see different stuff? Either way, just like with Dead Space's inability to allow you to try a harder mode with your existing equipment when you finish the game I think it is mistake. It never hurts to give players more options, IMHO.


I'm really digging this game, but like most things I really like I can't help but think of a couple things I would love to see changed. I really find the world super-immersive and if it wasn't for a few really 'gamey' conventions to me I would probably think this is the best game of all time.

While I love the RPG elements of the game, especially when it comes to the skills, like lock-picking, hacking, etc, and I do enjoy the VATS system, ultimately I think that the combat should be less RPG and more shooter.

I'm not just talking about VATS here (although I do think it should go ultimately), I'm talking about the way damage is handled here. In many cases, the physical way you control the guy is less important than how much damage you can take vs. how much damage you inflict (and how many med-packs you have etc).

While there are certainly some monsters and people you can avoid by hiding behind terrain and/or dodging their shots in many cases your enemies seem to be crack shots from long range, constantly dinking off a little of your health no matter how careful you try to be. Other times you face creatures that are so fast and agile you are literally unable to step out of their way as they charge (they magically pivot as they charge).

So in many ways the combat is still very 'RPG'ish, even when fought in real-time. If you don't use VATS it can often take several shotgun blasts to the chest for you to kill a person or even several grenades to take out a super-mutant. I'm not opposed to tough enemies, I'd just like to feel that the weapons behaved a little more potently.

In other words, if the combat behaved more like a typical shooter and you didn't pause during combats to whip out grenades, medpacks, or go into VATS, I really think the world would be so much more immersive and real feeling to me.


Similarly, I think the inclusion of some rusty old vehicles, like a motorcycle, dune buggy, or even beasts to ride like Oblivion that allowed you to travel around the map quicker would allow them to eliminate the 'quick travel' feature and make the world feel more real. Allowing me to 'jump' back to my home base to sell my loot everytime I fill up my satchel really doesn't make me feel like I'm in a real world. The few times I actually am forced to trek to find a new area is when I really enjoy the game's world. If I had the option to take a creature or vehicle that could get me places faster but without using the 'quick travel' feature it again would really help me with the immersion of the game.


Finally, I'm a completist. I can't stand leaving an area without checking to see if I've picked up every last good piece of scrap. But it really is mind-boggling tedious, and I had the exact same problem with Bioshock. I hate the fact that I'm wasting hours looking at tables for stim-packs, but at the same time the fact that so much good stuff is hidden barely out of site compels me to do so.

I would absolutely LOVE if there was a feature called 'quick search' that showed a little 10 foot (or so) ring around you and if you clicked 'quick search' you'd automatically search that whole area for any items that could be picked up and they would pop-up in your inventory menu like you were buying items from someone (so you'd have an overall list of all items in the area that could be picked up, or you could scroll through each container one-by-one in the area to see what each particular one is holding.

Obviously this wouldn't get stuff out of safes, you couldn't search if there is an enemy around and maybe they could even work the 'perception' skill into this somehow (like the higher the perception the larger the 'search area' is).

All I know is that if they had this feature it would absolutely make my gameplaying 1000 times more enjoyable.

yakface wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:So I finished it just a few minutes ago.

The ending is kind of a letdown, as the game just...stops.
And I can't use that character again to keep exploring the world, as you can do in Oblivion at the end of the storyline.
I dunno, maybe when they add more content you'll be able to.
But it's disappointing to lose your unique Gatling Laser just because the game stops :(

Man, that is a damn shame. There is so much cool stuff in this game that you think it would be a no-brainer to leave it 'open' after the game is finished to allow people to finish up seeing anything they missed. I'm assuming the story kind of hits a point at the end where they can't come back from to let you continue to wander around? If not, there really isn't any excuse.

Or maybe because of how many different ways there is to play the game they're trying to encourage you to play again a different way to see different stuff? Either way, just like with Dead Space's inability to allow you to try a harder mode with your existing equipment when you finish the game I think it is mistake. It never hurts to give players more options, IMHO.

Thanx for the warning, I was going full steam ahead on the primary mission and was actually thinking about just going out and mucking about the far edges of the map...time to go explore.

I'm really digging this game, but like most things I really like I can't help but think of a couple things I would love to see changed. I really find the world super-immersive and if it wasn't for a few really 'gamey' conventions to me I would probably think this is the best game of all time.

Ditto that, at this point Fallout 4 is probably a pretty safe bet, maybe even on the current system.

While I love the RPG elements of the game, especially when it comes to the skills, like lock-picking, hacking, etc, and I do enjoy the VATS system, ultimately I think that the combat should be less RPG and more shooter.

I'm not just talking about VATS here (although I do think it should go ultimately), I'm talking about the way damage is handled here. In many cases, the physical way you control the guy is less important than how much damage you can take vs. how much damage you inflict (and how many med-packs you have etc).

While there are certainly some monsters and people you can avoid by hiding behind terrain and/or dodging their shots in many cases your enemies seem to be crack shots from long range, constantly dinking off a little of your health no matter how careful you try to be. Other times you face creatures that are so fast and agile you are literally unable to step out of their way as they charge (they magically pivot as they charge).

So in many ways the combat is still very 'RPG'ish, even when fought in real-time. If you don't use VATS it can often take several shotgun blasts to the chest for you to kill a person or even several grenades to take out a super-mutant. I'm not opposed to tough enemies, I'd just like to feel that the weapons behaved a little more potently.

In other words, if the combat behaved more like a typical shooter and you didn't pause during combats to whip out grenades, medpacks, or go into VATS, I really think the world would be so much more immersive and real feeling to me.

I sort of disagree here. I almost EXCLUSIVELY go VATS. My character is built for extra action points and has addictions to everything that adds to it (unfortunatly ) sneaky sniping is my forte, and when combat gets up and personal I'm still going for headshots to end combats quickly.

I actually 'prefer' the RPG feel over the shooter feel, I've never been much for 1st person shooters anyway. I prefer to work my mind rather than my reflexes so dying just because I couldnt aim well enough or dodge enough reflex-wise is only frustrating to me. There is 'just' enough real-time action in this RPG to create a sense of urgency and I think that this is were the real immersion comes from for me.

Fallout always was an RPG and I think that all the Fallout 'fans' out there were really afraid that Bethesda was going to turn their game into a first person shooter action gore-fest without retaining that "RPG feel" that those originally attracted to turn based roleplay actually prefer. I think they found a really nice balance.

Similarly, I think the inclusion of some rusty old vehicles, like a motorcycle, dune buggy, or even beasts to ride like Oblivion that allowed you to travel around the map quicker would allow them to eliminate the 'quick travel' feature and make the world feel more real. Allowing me to 'jump' back to my home base to sell my loot everytime I fill up my satchel really doesn't make me feel like I'm in a real world. The few times I actually am forced to trek to find a new area is when I really enjoy the game's world. If I had the option to take a creature or vehicle that could get me places faster but without using the 'quick travel' feature it again would really help me with the immersion of the game.

I totally agree with that. 'quick travel' is a little too safe and easy in a world such as this.

Finally, I'm a completist. I can't stand leaving an area without checking to see if I've picked up every last good piece of scrap. But it really is mind-boggling tedious, and I had the exact same problem with Bioshock. I hate the fact that I'm wasting hours looking at tables for stim-packs, but at the same time the fact that so much good stuff is hidden barely out of site compels me to do so.

I would absolutely LOVE if there was a feature called 'quick search' that showed a little 10 foot (or so) ring around you and if you clicked 'quick search' you'd automatically search that whole area for any items that could be picked up and they would pop-up in your inventory menu like you were buying items from someone (so you'd have an overall list of all items in the area that could be picked up, or you could scroll through each container one-by-one in the area to see what each particular one is holding.

sounds like someone needs to go pick up the guide!

yakface's narrative was great. That's exactly what happens to a good guy in the wastes. I know what you mean about missing things in the tutorial though... I accidently figured out how to repair things about 90% of the way through the main story.

Orlanth: The main quest won't force you to get as involved with the world as Oblivion did, but that's sort of relieving. It's not 'very short'. There are a couple of minor shortcuts if just go straight to Rivet City, etc. but no spoilers here.

I need to play this with a half-dozen character configurations yet; I don't think HtH will be as rewarding as it was in the predecessors, and the Ripper was frigging irritating. The shishkesword was disappointing after the concept work too. Unarmed was my favourite path in the first two; I don't think Fallout 3 will get as many hours from me as they did, but I don't have as many hours as I did ten years ago anyway.

Basically, this game made me as beamingly happy as every other 22-year-old who has been waiting since he was twelve for another Fallout game to arrive. I've been more than happy to overlook its flaws for the sheer experience of killing my favourite classic enemies in first person. Hell, HUNTING them! My first Deathclaw fight came from above, as I casually fended off a few mole rats with the laser pistol... I could just go on and on.
I love this game because I love the Fallout world, and I'm willing to acceppt Bethesda's appropriation of the theme - they haven't ruined anything too big (HAROLD!!!!!). Comparison for effect would be Half-Life 2. Bethesda only dropped the humour element that was carried by the 'text-adventure' styled narrative of the earlier games - first-person superseded that anyway. People still tell you to get f**ked to your face. Whereas Valve took a game that they made in the first place and stuffed it up by changing the character of... everyone.

EDIT; Okay, I replying to the last post on the first page. In conclusion, HL" was supposed to be Best Game Ever, but wasn't. Not as many people know Fallout, but the ones who did shouldn't be disappointed. Fallout 3 Kicks.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:yakface's narrative was great. That's exactly what happens to a good guy in the wastes. I know what you mean about missing things in the tutorial though... I accidently figured out how to repair things about 90% of the way through the main story.

Speaking of that:

Is there a way for you to fix your own gear (I think that's what you're talking about) or do you always have to pay someone to fix it for you?

fix your own gear by combining...

Assault rifle breaking down? shoot as many enemies as you can with assault rifles and "use the good parts from those guns to replace the broken down bits on yours".

Deadshane1 wrote:
I sort of disagree here. I almost EXCLUSIVELY go VATS. My character is built for extra action points and has addictions to everything that adds to it (unfortunatly ) sneaky sniping is my forte, and when combat gets up and personal I'm still going for headshots to end combats quickly.

I actually 'prefer' the RPG feel over the shooter feel, I've never been much for 1st person shooters anyway. I prefer to work my mind rather than my reflexes so dying just because I couldnt aim well enough or dodge enough reflex-wise is only frustrating to me. There is 'just' enough real-time action in this RPG to create a sense of urgency and I think that this is were the real immersion comes from for me.

Fallout always was an RPG and I think that all the Fallout 'fans' out there were really afraid that Bethesda was going to turn their game into a first person shooter action gore-fest without retaining that "RPG feel" that those originally attracted to turn based roleplay actually prefer. I think they found a really nice balance.

Don't get me wrong I use VATS as much as I possibly can because it is the most effective way to fight in the game, and I do thoroughly enjoy it.

However, I can recognize that using it (and the rest other RPG elements of the fighting) helps to pull you out of the very 'real' world they've managed to create for the most part.

The fact that time constantly passes, shops are closed while people sleep, etc, sets the feeling of a living, breathing world which is then kind of destroyed when you're able to pause time in the middle of a fight to take healthpacks or whip out a grenade.

Sometimes when a game goes 3D it becomes 'time' to drop some of the previous elements of the game that just don't 'match' with the new type of game world that has been created. . .previous fans be damned.

Dead Space, for example, was able to build your HUD into the game so that you NEVER felt like you were outside of the game looking in. Even your inventory screen was a holo-projection that your character was looking at.


I just think the WORLD of Fallout is so amazing that if they had made every last effort to make sure you were constantly 'in it' and living through the time then the game would be absolutely majestic and part of that would be getting rid of the non-real time combat (and the ability to pause the game to swap weapons).

malfred wrote:

Tacobake wrote:dammit.

Now, now Taco. Job first. Covet your neighbor's power armor later.

but I want it now! Also, I stopped reading this.