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I think guardian mounted are a great troop choice for the points... uber speedy and mobile. You need a decent squad so that they can last and do some damage. While I would not recommend three of these squads I think one is always a good choice.

G

The way its worded, Mind war is versus the ld 7 of the nob.

Mob rule: The mob may exchange its leadership value for the number of models in the mob.

Mind war: Doesnt target the mob, it targets a specific individual. Both players roll a d6 and add the respective leadership of their model.

This isn't a leadership test, its just using the characteristic on the profile and adding a d6.

Although, I can see this being an issue to be argued at events...

Models use the leadership of the highest in their unit.

G

You're misreading the rule book I'm afraid, here's the quote from the rulebook:

Pg. 8, Big 5th edition book, under the heading:

"Leadership Tests:

Tests made against the leadership characteristic (like morale checks) are different from other tests. In the case of a leadership test, roll 2d6. If the result is equal to or less than the model's leadership, the test is passed.

If a unit includes models with different leadership values, always use the one with the highest ld value"

What you're thinking of is that for leadership tests models use the highest in their unit.

Mind war isn't a leadership test. It just uses their leadership value to add to the roll of a D6. The above quote only applies, as the heading says, to leadership tests.

What exactly does the rules for mond war say?

G

The eldar player may choose any unengaged model within 18 inches of the farseer and within his line of sight. Both players roll a d6 and add the leadership value of their respective models. For each point the farseer wins by, the target loses a wound, with no armor saves allowed.

Keep in mind leadership tests are specific, they always say "Leadership test". A leadership test, as defined in the rulebook, is specifically a test which requires the model to roll under its leadership value on 2d6 added together.

I will go with Leadership of specific models for purpose of Mind War.

Take it to YMDC.

G

Already checked it on there, its been done to death, in every case it was stated by all involved that mind war is not a leadership test.

The examples used in the threads were tyranid synapse wh are assumed to pass all leadership tests, and orks.

Mind war is the way it always has been, not a leadership test. Orks still fry to it.

If it got the okay on YMDC then that is an excellent tactic. Too bad you can no longer augment... that would really mess them up.

G

Indeed, but sigh, only in apocalypse nowadays (the eldar seer council datasheet brings back augment).

I keep hearing good things about Apoc but I mostly just play in tournaments.

G

Its a good "off season" sort of activity if you've got a large group of gaming friends.

We've got a fun one coming up in january,

Eldar Vs. Everyone Else

We're taking back the galaxy

Four eldar players fielding 8k each, against 4-8 players on the other side. Should be fun/tough for the eldar, as about half of the other side is orks.

I believe Biel Tan believes their race can take back the old empire. They will have make good use of the webway portals though. Oh for a suit of wraithbone armor!

G

tzeentchling wrote:Have you considered changing one of the DA squads into a tri-flamer Storm Guardian unit? It seems like it would be ideal for its ability to deny cover, especially for units that like to sit back and hold objectives (like SM scouts or Pathfinders). And no one can debate the effectiveness of the flamers on GEQs/Orks!

Tough thing about this squad is you have to have 11 fig squad to get x3 flamers. 92 pts + Warlock 25 pts + destuctor 10 pts and throw in Wave Sepent 90 pts. So 217 pts to throw down 3 flamers. Is that efficient? Not t mention $60 to buy storm figs.

targetawg wrote:The way its worded, Mind war is versus the ld 7 of the nob.

Mob rule: The mob may exchange its leadership value for the number of models in the mob.

Mind war: Doesnt target the mob, it targets a specific individual. Both players roll a d6 and add the respective leadership of their model.

This isn't a leadership test, its just using the characteristic on the profile and adding a d6.

Although, I can see this being an issue to be argued at events...

MASSIVELY misquoted....

Mob Rule: ORK MODELS exchange their leadership value for the number of models in the mob.

It is crystal clear...

Old Man Ultramarine wrote:

tzeentchling wrote:Have you considered changing one of the DA squads into a tri-flamer Storm Guardian unit? It seems like it would be ideal for its ability to deny cover, especially for units that like to sit back and hold objectives (like SM scouts or Pathfinders). And no one can debate the effectiveness of the flamers on GEQs/Orks!

Tough thing about this squad is you have to have 11 fig squad to get x3 flamers. 92 pts + Warlock 25 pts + destuctor 10 pts and throw in Wave Sepent 90 pts. So 217 pts to throw down 3 flamers. Is that efficient? Not t mention $60 to buy storm figs.

Well, you do get a wave serpent, too. Mine usually runs about 235 total, with shuriken cannon and spirit stones, plus a singing spear for the warlock. It's not terribly efficient, but name a place in the Eldar army you can get multiple flamers? I mean, yeah, destructor locks, but you're limited in how many you can take, and they're not a scoring unit, which is the point. Plus, they can actually do something against vehicles in close combat, which Dire Avengers cannot.

The money is an issue, of course, but I'm converting mine out of dark eldar warriors and howling banshee swords.

Money isn't problem for me.

Hell, I'm spending $400 on bits to do 'lock conversions on bikes.

Shep wrote:

targetawg wrote:The way its worded, Mind war is versus the ld 7 of the nob.

Mob rule: The mob may exchange its leadership value for the number of models in the mob.

Mind war: Doesnt target the mob, it targets a specific individual. Both players roll a d6 and add the respective leadership of their model.

This isn't a leadership test, its just using the characteristic on the profile and adding a d6.

Although, I can see this being an issue to be argued at events...

MASSIVELY misquoted....

Mob Rule: ORK MODELS exchange their leadership value for the number of models in the mob.

It is crystal clear...

Actually yours is massively misquoted.

Here's the entire rule, typed, verbatim from the codex. your "QUOTE" doesn't exist. Bolded parts for emphasis.


"Mob rule!

Ork psychology and morale is directly linked to the number of boyz around them at any given time. An ork with a trukkload of his mates backing him up is a good sight more confident than one with just his half-wit mate Zog at his heels! Because of this, Ork mobs may always choose to substitute the number of Orks in their mob for their normal leadership value. If an Ork mob numbers 11 or more models, it has the fearless special rule"

If you're going to claim someone else misquoted, you may want to well, actually quote it right yourself. Page 31.

Old Man Ultramarine wrote:Money isn't problem for me.

Hell, I'm spending $400 on bits to do 'lock conversions on bikes.

Then you're doing something wrong or you're going absolutely insane on conversions, what the heck are you using that costs that much? I mean I thought I spent alot, and I'm probably at 25% of what you're quoting to do mine.

The mond war issue should be discussed at YMDC. It is not that cut and dry after reading the Orc mob rules.

Storm Guardians with enhance do okay in close combat against stuff like tactical Marines.

G

HQ: 720

Jet Council 1: 590
1 Farseer: Fortune, Runes of Warding, Spirit Stones, Mind war Jetbike -> 170
8 Warlocks: 2 x Enhance, 2 x Embolden, 2x Destructor, Jetbikes -> 420

Autarch: Jetbike, laser lance, mandiblasters -> 130

TROOPS: 795

10 x Dire Avengers 1: 265
Transport: Waveserpent with TL Brightlance, Spirit Stones

10 x Dire Avengers 2: 265
Transport: Waveserpent with TL Brightlance, Spirit Stones

10 x Dire Avengers 3: 265
Transport: Waveserpent with TL Brightlance, Spirit Stones

Heavy Support: 230

2x Fire Prism Grav Tank


Total: 1745

Looks quite good.
If the Lootas target the Prisms, fine. Every shot not going against the Serpents is fine. I found that three DA squads in Serpents suffice at the 1750 pt level. But still I feel that this will not be a top tier list. Marines are a hard nut to crack.

targetawg wrote:

Old Man Ultramarine wrote:Money isn't problem for me.

Hell, I'm spending $400 on bits to do 'lock conversions on bikes.

Then you're doing something wrong or you're going absolutely insane on conversions, what the heck are you using that costs that much? I mean I thought I spent alot, and I'm probably at 25% of what you're quoting to do mine.

Windrider hosts x2 $125 each. Warlock x 18 $10 each. 250 + 180 = $435. I didn't factor in my discount, but yeah......

Ah, I didn't add in the cost of the warlocks I used, just the conversion bits.

It is quite an army to do, isn't it?

Green Blow Fly wrote:
wustenfeux

I agree with what you have said wholeheartedly. Here are some batreps from three recent games against eldar you might find interesting:

BA vs Eldar Batreps

G

Indeed, an interesting report. It supports my comments.

That eldar list in your batrep is horrible I'll point out.

It's also illegal or you don't have it quite right

Autarchs can't choose 2 guns and the lance, as far as I know, although I'm not positive on that

Jetbikes come in a max squad of 10.

Targetawg: Have you ever played your list in a tournament?

Well, w/out getting drawn into the various debates going on, I'd like to comment that I don't think there's sufficient anti-tank. 3 Twin Linked bs 3 bright lances ought to pen 3 * 1/3 * 3/4 = 3/4 of a pen per round.

If you are up against a Walker heavy army (3 Soul Grinders, 6 Dreads from new Marines, Killa Kan rush from Orks, even Defilers from CSM) you could easily get into a situation where you are unable to assault (as dreads will thwack your councils and hold them in place for multi-charging), and also unable to win the shooting war (if Dire Avengers get out they will get pie plated).

Targetawg wrote:
That eldar list in your batrep is horrible I'll point out.

It's also illegal or you don't have it quite right

Autarchs can't choose 2 guns and the lance, as far as I know, although I'm not positive on that

Jetbikes come in a max squad of 10.

I have to be honest here and just say you are a big f00. It's obvious you don't have much experience, want to come across as a hot shot, and you are a troll too. Come down to Florida and I will clean your clock.

The verdict over at YMDC is nob can use mod Ld versus mond war.

G

I have to be honest here and just say you are a big f00. It's obvious you don't have much experience, want to come across as a hot shot, and you are a troll too. Come down to Florida and I will clean your clock.

Well, I played the GT final in October with a mech Eldar army that worked very well in 4th ed. I know what I'm talking about.
Sometime, I'll come back to Florida and battle you. I've been there for Christmas vacation when I studied at Princeton University.