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Ghaz wrote:From page 3 of the Warhammer 40,000 5th edition rulebook:

A unit will usually consist of several models that fight as a group, but it can also be a single, very large or powerful model, such as a battle tank, a monstrous alien creature or a lone hero. In the rules that follow, all of these things are referred to as ‘units’.

So what would qualify as a 'lone hero'? Seems to me that would be an Independent Character.

A unit can be a lone hero doesn't mean a lone hero is always a unit. When he joins another unit, he is no longer a unit of his own, he is now a member of a squad. This is not a mention of his default position.

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:It's clear that a regular unit is a unit, but it doesn't actually refer to an IC as a unit anywhere in the rulebook except where it says "it fights like a unit," which is never to say that it IS a unit.

It actually says 'fight as units in their own right' in the section I pointed to.

I don't believe Space Marines actually have retinues any more. Honour Guards and Command Squads are separate units that 1) do not take up an HQ slot and 2) nothing says that they must be with the IC. Nothing says they cannot be deployed on their own. Also, their unit type is 'infantry', not 'retinue' or 'bodyguard' like you would see in other other places.
Page 48 of the lil rule book states that 'an IC may begin the game already in a unit, by being deployed in coherency with them.' That tells me that they are separate deployments, but begin the game together.
DoW deployment states that at the end of deployment the player may have two troop selections and up to one unit of his HQ selection. A Command Squad or Honour Guard do not have a FOC slot so would not count at either an HQ or Troop unit. This tells me that we couldn't even deploy them as part of the initial deployment in DoW. This doesn't necessarily makes sense, but it does appear to be RAW. Personally, I am not crazy about the DoW rules in the first place. Deploying first in DoW gives you huge advantages in that you can limit your opponents deployment zone and have control of basically 3/4 of the board at deployment time. I would prefer the game to be about out maneuvering and having a better strategy than your opponent being given an advantage like that. Of course, it is an extra challenge.
A last note, Shrike is a special case as his rules specifically states models in his squad benefit from the infiltrate rule. It doesn't say anything about deploying together. You would have to deploy Shrike, then deploy the unit in coherency with him to then gain the infiltrate special.

pavonis wrote: A Command Squad or Honour Guard do not have a FOC slot so would not count at either an HQ or Troop unit.

Not quite.

They're HQ units, as they are units that are selected from the HQ section of the Army List.
They simply don't count towards your FOC allowance.

You would have to deploy Shrike, then deploy the unit in coherency with him to then gain the infiltrate special.

Which is impossible, since they don't have the Infiltrate rule until they are deployed with him, which means they would have to be either set up before him or kept in Reserve. There is no option given within the rules to hold back a unit and deploy it as an Infiltrator if it doesn't actually have the Infiltrate rule... and they don't have that until they actually deploy.

It's an endless loop.