Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

That's one of the great things about the world wide web. By now, any web savvy players who weren't actually at the event know as much about this fool as the folks who were there. He's branded himself for life, and he'll be lucky to get more than three people to ever sign up for an event he runs, ever again. Most everywhere he goes outside of his local game store will net him nothing but dirty looks, murmuring behind his back, and outright accusations of being a cheat and a low down dog.

The player wronged will live to fight another day, but the T.O. is a 40K community dead man, metaphorically speaking...

HBMC: and you know how mind numbing it is to paint the same camo scheme a couple a hundred times? My friggin guard army would have been done a long time ago.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Grizgin

I have to agree there. Ever since I read an ancient article in WD back in the 90's (written by Jervis, ironically) I've always wanted to do a Crusading Marine army that consists of multiple Chapters working together. Even wrote up a whole fluff document about why my the three Chapters would come together. Against a needless painting score like this, the army would fail - as it has three distinct Chapters in there.

And what about Guard players who like different regiments. Would you get penalised because your Artillery units are of Mordian origin, your Battle Tanks are Tallarn and your Infantry is Cadian? Seems overly harsh there.

BYE

Thanks.

It also penalizes many armies painted in older, more traditional styles. My Slaanesh Chaos legion army is painted in the style (an indeed uses the original RT models) of those depicted in the "Slaves to Darkness" book. That is to say they are a riot of color, with each model being different than the next. It's the very essence of what chaos is supposed to be. Likewise my all metal orc army is painted in the style of the "Warhammer Armies" 3rd edition book...that is to say as individuals and resembling a barbarian horde. Both forces would be penalized unfairly under that guideline.

TR

KK: Nah, so long as there are GW stores that focus on getting new players in rather than keeping old ones (isn't that all of them?? wait, lemme think...), there'll always be some new 13 year old kid for him to get a pick up game with and stomp on.

But in all seriousness, I would love to here this guys side of the story.

Has the WC member who took the Nob Bikers posted in this thread?

Without his direct evidence, everything is hearsay.

With respect, kilkrazy, I think that the rules of evidence in this court are a lot more relaxed than that.

It certainly is not a court.

There's nothing wrong with a good kvetching session.

However, the judge has been named and shamed, while the player is currently anonymous. I am unclear whether he is the OP or the OP is a friend posting on his behalf.

Reading between the lines, it seems that there was some existing bad blood between the player and the judge, which contributed to the incident.

The WC members have come on Dakka to raise a stink about it. It's right to stand up for your mates, of course, but it can look like dogpiling onto someone who isn't here to defend themself.

I'm not advocating any sides here, just trying to point out what's fair.

Kvetch? Is that a Britishism for "female dog?"

No, it's a yiddish-ism for an "old woman who talks a lot but doesn't say much - in an annoying kind of way." (paraphrasing a jewish friend after I asked him what it meant.

It's more of an annoying whiny rant than a "female dog" session.

It's Yiddish/Jewish actually.

chromedog wrote:No, it's a yiddish-ism for an "old woman who talks a lot but doesn't say much - in an annoying kind of way." (paraphrasing a jewish friend after I asked him what it meant.

It's more of an annoying whiny rant than a "female dog" session.

I don't really see the difference. But hey, that's cool too.

The distinction is a very fine one.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bitch

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/kvetch

This is why you vet lists before hand @_@

If you're TO'ing, and someone says theyre bringing a list you don't want anyone to bring, you can reject it before hand.
They know to either bring something softer, or not come at all in advance, and you don't have to act like a jackass during the event.

You don't have to comp mark them before hand, or even check that theyre correct; you just have to make sure it's not gonna go getting sand in your vagina.

I don't understand the problem.

You go to a Tournament, the TO makes the rules.

End of discussion.

If you don't like that, too bad.

And as far as I can tell, this seems to be poetic justice for the Wrecking Crew cheating their way to the win at 'Ard Boyz.

Oh wait, I guess it's only "wrong" when the unfairness goes *against* the Wrecking Crew?

Yeah.

was this guy raped by a large ork?
i dont understand how he suffered such severe brain damage.

you CANT deny a player points for no bloody reason.
and when you decide to deny a well known and good player, it will cause alot of trouble since it seems to be the guys own personal problems.

setting up a game in favour of 1 player is once again out of the question, and shouldnt even be thought about.
allthough, winning against the odds is a nice way to say "feth you buddy!"

overall the prick should be kept away from tournament games, or any games for that matter.
if he has a problem with a players list or style then he should swallow his pride and be quiet about it.

one for that douchisam........

other than GBH / ABH / assult charges, what could you expect to get from hitting him?
if someone done that to me it would be pretty hard to resist.

players put alot of heart into getting an army up and running, and when some dick like that starts to deny you points, well, you get the idea

JohnHwangDD wrote:I don't understand the problem.

You go to a Tournament, the TO makes the rules.

End of discussion.

If you don't like that, too bad.

And as far as I can tell, this seems to be poetic justice for the Wrecking Crew cheating their way to the win at 'Ard Boyz.

Oh wait, I guess it's only "wrong" when the unfairness goes *against* the Wrecking Crew?

Yeah.

OK, I guess the Wrecking Crew is on your gak list. I haveto admit, when I saw a WD article article with Mark (?) Parker dropping "WC" gang sign wiht his hands when they took his pic for some tourney he Firsted in, I bout gak myself laughing. No offense meant to them or him or whatever, but it just looked the funniest gak I saw that week.

But this TO's behavior seems FUBAR to pretty well everyone here, including himself if the "Not punching Me In The Face" Award bit did indeed happen.

In your defense, though; said TO has NOT "had their say" here in this thread (really, not expecting the dude to take the time), and I would really like to see his side. Maybe it was a completely different animal. Maybe it was a mass hallucination. Maybe all the anal probes that our space alien masters had rammed into their rectums simultaneously shorted out and caused the crowd to imagine it. Maybe it went down just as was described earlier in the thread.

But I cannot look upon the story we have been given, and call it just. Maybe it happened differently, but this story I can't call right.

A TO bringing down the hammer on a dick I can see and agree with. But nothing given here gives any kind of cause for the TO's behavior beyond either bad blood or utter revulsion at list choice. In which case he should have just refunded the guys money and showed him the door.

grizgrin wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:And as far as I can tell, this seems to be poetic justice for the Wrecking Crew cheating their way to the win at 'Ard Boyz.

OK, I guess the Wrecking Crew is on your gak list.

TO has NOT "had their say"

A TO bringing down the hammer on a dick I can see and agree with.

It is / they are. For what are purportedly a bunch of grown men, all adults, the amount of immature drama and squealing that they bring to Dakka (and the GW community at large) exceeds that which one would expect from a bunch of newly-pubescent teenage girls.

Exactly, and as KK notes, that's the problem here.

For all we know, the WC member involved was being an ass, and the TO was applying well-deserved sanctions all around. Based on their rep, this wouldn't surprise me in the least. I guess we'll have go to Ste-Beetlejuices's Blog to find out the other side of the story...

But really, all this little episode does is reinforce that 40k fundamentally isn't / shouldn't be played as a tournament game, much less for prizes of any sort. Thank God that GW has realized this and is pushing Apoc!

Why are you afraid to say Stelek?

I like a good drive-by lynching!

Did anyone bring the sandwiches? We could make this a picnic outing while we're all here!

griz, its been a good morning till you brought that name up
some things are best left forgotten.

As I understand it, the Nob Biker list is considered abusive because they have two wounds and can be outfitted differently to allow incoming fire to be spread out between all the figures.

Surely this means that an army with two wounds really does have something going for it?

Since the same trick can be played with Tau Gundam Wing style armies, would they also be considered abusive?

In the case of Tau, there are completely valid tactical reasons to outfit your suit differently, giving the secondary benefit of splitting the incoming fire. Is this considered abusive?

grizgrin wrote:Why are you afraid to say Ste-?

I'm just playing along.

I guess you missed it in the other thread where he got renamed "Beetlejuice"?

@JohnHwangDD

I like a good game of Apoc as much as the next grizzled old vet with far too many models and I also like playing just for laughs.

I am, however, sufficiently mature to realise that there are as many different views on how to approach 40k as there are 40k players. This is a good thing!!

If some people want to play 40k in a competitive environment then more power to their elbows, I say! In that environment certain approaches to gameplay are expected.

If I was running a tournament and had not imposed any limits on force selection or pre-arranged any house rules, then I would expect people to turn up with the hardest lists that their skill (and model collection) could contrive. Having read the rules for this event, no such restrictions were in place, so the TO should in no way have been surprised when a Nob Biker list turned up. He should have been equally as unsurprised by Horde, Loota-spam or Battlewagon Ork armies. Or by podding Kantor-guard. Or anything else good for that matter...

John, while you may feel some personal animosity towards the WC it in no way excuses the behaviour of the TO. In that players place I would have complained immediately to the con organisers and if I had no satisfaction I would have demanded my money back and compensation for my wasted time and fuel.

A TO has a duty of trust to the players who attend their events and in this case that trust was blatantly abused.

Kilkrazy wrote:
However, the judge has been named and shamed, while the player is currently anonymous. I am unclear whether he is the OP or the OP is a friend posting on his behalf.

The way it looks (and I havent caught up on my WC mates on all the dirty little details yet) is that the OP is actually the BROTHER of the player in question.

JohnHwangDD wrote:And as far as I can tell, this seems to be poetic justice for the Wrecking Crew cheating their way to the win at 'Ard Boyz.

*sigh* It was a matter of time before THIS drek was brought up. Ignoring it completely, regardless of what happened at 'Ard Boyz, maybe your mommie told you once, JohnHwangDD, "Two wrongs don't make a right"? Its a completely unrelated event, and blacklisting all WC members because of matters that happened at a past event is completely unreasonable.

It is / they are. For what are purportedly a bunch of grown men, all adults, the amount of immature drama and squealing that they bring to Dakka (and the GW community at large) exceeds that which one would expect from a bunch of newly-pubescent teenage girls.

Ok, so this thread is now squealing and whining? ...and here I thought it was some of our boys trying to bring something to light that SHOULD be brought into the view of the 40k community.

For all we know, the WC member involved was being an ass, and the TO was applying well-deserved sanctions all around. Based on their rep, this wouldn't surprise me in the least. I guess we'll have go to Ste-Beetlejuices's Blog to find out the other side of the story...

....because that blog isnt 1-sided in the least right? Completely unbiased. Riiiiggghhhttt.

But really, all this little episode does is reinforce that 40k fundamentally isn't / shouldn't be played as a tournament game, much less for prizes of any sort.

Yea, just like football when bad calls are made and the coach gets pissed off. You're right, all those teams should just play for fun as well....we dont need a Superbowl.

@KK: Compared to Nob Bikers, Tau suits are fewer models, more expensive, move slower, hit softer, and in a much less-competitive army.

Of those factors, the last is probably the most important, although the rest do a good job of explaining why, while superficially similar, Nob Bikers are disliked.

JohnHwangDD wrote:@KK: Compared to Nob Bikers, Tau suits are fewer models, more expensive, move slower, hit softer, and in a much less-competitive army.

Of those factors, the last is probably the most important, although the rest do a good job of explaining why, while superficially similar, Nob Bikers are disliked.

I thought that would be the case.

Sometimes an army can get tarred with the same brush as a different army, though. Near the end of 4e, when the Eldar holofield super-Falcon appeared and caused widespread moaning, some players started to complain that Tau Hammerheads are too powerful and so on, just because they were skimmers too.

Deadshane1 wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:And as far as I can tell, this seems to be poetic justice for the Wrecking Crew cheating their way to the win at 'Ard Boyz.

*sigh* It was a matter of time before THIS drek was brought up.

maybe your mommie told you once, JohnHwangDD,

"Two wrongs don't make a right"?

blacklisting all WC members because of matters that happened at a past event is completely unreasonable.

When you start pointing fingers, remember that 4 of them point back at you. Based on your posts on 'Ard Boyz, you're proven and admitted to be a bunch of cheaters, so why should we believe your word?

If you want to talk about what our "mommies" taught us, perhaps I ougha go after yours?

In this case, it's basic physics: "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."

Given that we only have proven untrustworthy word of the WC on the matter, and nothing from the TO in question, that's hard to say. For me, it's easy to believe that your boy was being an ass and got what he deserved.

Deadshane1 wrote:

It is / they are. For what are purportedly a bunch of grown men, all adults, the amount of immature drama and squealing that they bring to Dakka (and the GW community at large) exceeds that which one would expect from a bunch of newly-pubescent teenage girls.

Ok, so this thread is now squealing and whining?

...and here I thought it was some of our boys trying to bring something to light that SHOULD be brought into the view of the 40k community.

No, you're whining like a bunch of little girls.

Given that the overwhelming majority of the 40k community doesn't play tournaments, much less win them, no, I feel very comfortable in sharing that we don't care at in the least about you, the WC, some random tournament, or the TO. We do think that you oughta suck it up and accept that sometimes life ain't fair.

Deadshane1 wrote:

For all we know, the WC member involved was being an ass, and the TO was applying well-deserved sanctions all around. Based on their rep, this wouldn't surprise me in the least. I guess we'll have go to Ste-Beetlejuices's Blog to find out the other side of the story...

....because that blog isnt 1-sided in the least right?

Oh, don't get me wrong, Beetlejuice suffers from a terminal case of cranial-rectal inversion. But Tournament cheating and abuse is one of the few things Beetlejuice covers well.

Deadshane1 wrote:

But really, all this little episode does is reinforce that 40k fundamentally isn't / shouldn't be played as a tournament game, much less for prizes of any sort.

Yea, just like football when bad calls are made and the coach gets pissed off. You're right, all those teams should just play for fun as well....we dont need a Superbowl.

Oh, we need a Superbowl, all right.

And we also need adults who are man enough accept bad calls occur, and that they can lose to a bad call, gracefully.

Unlike your Bitching Crew.

krazy, there will allways be moaners mate, as each army gets updated and the rules move forward there will allways be an unbalanced unit / army.