Fleet Assault Terminators

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**Nurglitch**

Wait, you think that because the rules say "Alternatively an independent character may begin the game already with a unit, by being deployed in coherency with them", that this means the Terminators must already be deployed before Shrike if Shrike is deployed as an infiltrator?

**Tri**

Yep and if you read on GW shoot them selves in the other foot with the Special Rules bit ... how can a IC join a infiltrating unit unless it choise not to?

**Nurglitch**

Tri:

Let me get this straight. The Special Rules for Independent Characters Joining & Leaving Units say that:

"For example, if an independent character without the infiltrate' special rule joins a unit of infiltrators during deployment, the unit cannot infiltrate (see the Universal Special Rules section for more details)."

You think that this raises the question of how can Independent Character without Infiltrate can join an Infiltrating unit when the Independent Character is deployed normally, and the Infiltrating unit is deployed afterwards with the other infiltrators. Correct?

So, you believe that Shrike cannot join a unit of Terminators during deployment if he deploys as an infiltrator, because he would deploy after them. Correct?

And you believe that GW has shot themselves in both feet by consistently repeating this problematic ordering of deployment twice, such that Independent Characters can neither join the units and share their special rules with that unit because they deploy at different times, nor share their special rules with that unit and join that unit by deploying at the same time? Correct?

And you see no problem with believing these things, given the rules?

**TehCheator**

First off, I don't think that, I think that is what the rules say. I think we all agree that the correct, intended way to play it is that he can give a unit infiltrate.

I also am not saying that one or the other has to be on the table first, they could be placed on simultaneously and it still won't work. The problem is that, according to the rules, the character is not part of the squad until they are "deployed" in coherency with each other. According to the rules again, "deployed" means placed on the table or placed in reserve. So therefore, the squad+shrike doesn't have infiltrate when it is off the table, so it can't infiltrate. After it is "deployed" (i.e. put on the table), then it gains the infiltrate special rule, however at this point they are already deployed so that rule does nothing.

It doesn't matter what order you do it in, or even if you deploy them simultaneously, the problem is that the Terminators cannot be placed on the table during the Infiltrators part of Deployment unless they have the Infiltrate rule, however they don't get the Infiltrate rule until they are placed on the table.

**Nurglitch**

TehCheator:

Okay, I think a few things need clarification here. A unit is either deployed on the table, or it is held in reserve. Units cannot be deployed in reserve. Units that arrive on the table from reserves are deployed.

That is why the rules variously say:

"During deployment, players may choose not to deploy one or more of the units in their army and instead leave them in reserve." p.94, Rulebook.

Hence being left in reserve is not deployment.

"First he must specify to the opponent if any of his independent characters left in reserve are joining a unit, in which case they will be rolled for and will arrive together, or not in which case they will count as separate units when rolling for reserves."

So if the Terminators and Shrike are left in reserves, the player may declare that Shrike is joining the unit.

"If units in reserve has the 'deep strike', 'scout' or 'infiltrate' special rule, the player must declare to his opponent, during army deployment, whether they are going to use their special rules to deep strike/outflank or they are going to enter from his own table edge..."

So once the player has declared that Shrike has joined the unit, the unit has both the 'deep strike' and the 'infiltrate' special rule, requiring the player to specify how the unit will be deployed when they arrive from reserve.

It follows then that Shrike can join the unit before it is deployed on the board, if he is held in reserve.

**Lordhat**

But if Shrike (and the unit he joins in this case) is held in reserve, they may NOT infiltrate; The only way units in reserve may be deployed is by deepstrike, outflank, or by moving on from their own table edge.

**Tri**

... Nurglitch my view is that it should be worded differently ... Maybe "Shrike, and any unit he wish to start the game joined to, gain infiltrate" as it stands it should be "Shrike and his squad may outflank" as that's the only 100% RAW way he can be used

... now I'm not saying i wouldn't let some one play Shrike and a unit infiltrating together, as that is what i believe RAI are. (horrible double negative there ... i would let Shrike and a unit infiltrate)

**RedFloyd90**

Ok, I realize according to RAW, Shrike cannot make assault termies infiltrate, but really outside of tournaments if you're taking RAW so seriously that you whine and complain about something that is this blatently RAI, you're taking this game way too seriously. Outside of a tournament, if you're taking the game that seriously, that makes you TFG, and no one likes to play with TFG. Don't forget that the whole point of a game is to have fun, and arguing over rules that obviously are intended differently than written just ruins the game.

On a different note, if I'm not mistaken, the ability to outflank is transferred to dedicated transport vehicles, i don't think anyone has mentioned taking shrike and a squad of assault terminators in reserve, inside of a Crusader and outflank it. 12" flank onto board, disembark 2ish inches with the base, shoot the assault cannon, fleet, assault. Could be really powerful.

**Lordhat**

Shrike can't join a unit inside a LR; He is Jump Infantry.

**Gwar!**

Lordhat wrote:Shrike can't join a unit inside a LR; He is Jump Infantry.

Prawend with a Side of Owned right there!

**Frazzled**

Gentlemen, when arguing in this section
1. politeness is required. atacks on other posters is not permitted. Attack the arguments not the opponents.
2. Having said that YMTC is more legalistic. be prepared to defend your arguments and not take personal affront at the slightest opportunity

In other words:

Sorry, sometimes you just have to let it out...

**Gwar!**

Fixed it for you!
And yeah, even I, TFG 2.0 am getting a little sick of this thread.

**BoxANT**

fabbes wrote:Abit off-topic here but does this mean i can move my SoB filled rhinos 12", disembark and let those heavyflamers rip? :O
If so, thats just some extra Cheddar on my .

Well friend, you have two ways at looking at this... You can beat up on yourself for not using one of SoB best tactics, 12" move + 2" disembark + 12" rapid fire (and flamers) = 26" strike range.

Or you can celebrate in the knowledge that you will now be doing even better