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Kayvaan Shrike -> replaces default chapter tactics with Fleet, allowing certain units to run in the assault phase and then charge.

This includes Assault terminators, allowing them to conceivably (if they started the game on foot, which they shouldn't) move 18" in one turn by moving6, getting a lucky run D6 roll, then assaulting a further 6.

My question is though, if you move a crusader 6" to start, and then disembark them, can they then run in the following shooting phase to get into assault range?

Yes.

karmaiko wrote:My question is though, if you move a crusader 6" to start.......

You can even push the boat out and move 12" in the crusader, and then disembark fleet and assault.

Oh that's just so dirty for the board size we play on at my buddies house...
I thought you couldn't disembark if you moved 12" though?

On page 67 on the rulebook, it states that if the vehicle has already moved you may disembark but not move that unit any further in the movement phase. I don't seen any movement restriction on the vehicles movement anywhere that would disallow disembarking.

So with assault termies in a LR with Shrike in the army list you could move the LR 12" disembark (within 2" of the hatch so there's a little fudge factor there) move d6 with fleet and finally assault 6"

So a possible 24" assault.

Please correct me if I am mistaken about vehicles moving 12" and allowing disembarking.

There's no restriction on moving 12" and disembarking.

Fast vehicle transports can't move flat out and disembark troops...but other than that you're good.

BlackDracoSLC wrote:On page 67 on the rulebook, it states that if the vehicle has already moved you may disembark but not move that unit any further in the movement phase. I don't seen any movement restriction on the vehicles movement anywhere that would disallow disembarking.

So with assault termies in a LR with Shrike in the army list you could move the LR 12" disembark (within 2" of the hatch so there's a little fudge factor there) move d6 with fleet and finally assault 6"

So a possible 24" assault.

Please correct me if I am mistaken about vehicles moving 12" and allowing disembarking.

You can actually assault further than 24".. 12" LR move, 2" from hatch ~2inch because of the base,6 inch run and 6 inch charge = 28"

Sharik wrote:
You can actually assault further than 24".. 12" LR move, 2" from hatch ~2inch because of the base,6 inch run and 6 inch charge = 28"

Quoted for truth.

I'll admit to running that tactic a couple of times.

It feels so that i stepped away from it though.

This is from the FAQ.

Q. Can a unit with the Fleet special rule assault
after disembarking from a transport?
A. No, it cannot. The Fleet rule simply removes
the prohibition of assaulting after running.

Land Raiders have assault ramps and allow models to assault the turn they disembark.

AffliKtion wrote:This is from the FAQ.

Q. Can a unit with the Fleet special rule assault
after disembarking from a transport?
A. No, it cannot. The Fleet rule simply removes
the prohibition of assaulting after running.

some one doesn't have codex SM

all landraider have the following rule

Assualt Vehicle: Models disembarking from any access point on a landraider can launch an assault on the turn they do so.

Tri wrote:

AffliKtion wrote:This is from the FAQ.

Q. Can a unit with the Fleet special rule assault
after disembarking from a transport?
A. No, it cannot. The Fleet rule simply removes
the prohibition of assaulting after running.

some one doesn't have codex SM

all landraider have the following rule

Assualt Vehicle: Models disembarking from any access point on a landraider can launch an assault on the turn they do so.

You're right, I don't play with .

I stand corrected, thats a neat little rule.

GKplayer wrote:

Sharik wrote:You can actually assault further than 24".. 12" LR move, 2" from hatch ~2inch because of the base,6 inch run and 6 inch charge = 28"

I think you meant 26", 12 + 2 + 6 + 6 = 26, but it is still a lot of distance, you can charge in turn one, even you do not infiltrate.

No he meant 28"

It's actually 26"+base size. With 40mm bases it is 27.57".
You can't count on rolling more than 1 on the run roll though so I'd use the minimum move of 22.57" instead when guessing if you can assault or not.

Edit: Quotation function was haywire.

Webbe wrote:

GKplayer wrote:

Sharik wrote:You can actually assault further than 24".. 12" LR move, 2" from hatch ~2inch because of the base,6 inch run and 6 inch charge = 28"

I think you meant 26", 12 + 2 + 6 + 6 = 26, but it is still a lot of distance, you can charge in turn one, even you do not infiltrate.

No he meant 28"

It's actually 26"+base size. With 40mm bases it is 27.57".
You can't count on rolling more than 1 on the run roll though so I'd use the minimum move of 22.57" instead when guessing if you can assault or not.

What you do is start your land raider sidewise at the edge of your deployment zone, then you pivot giving you an extra 2" movement to give you a possible total of 30".

Abit off-topic here but does this mean i can move my SoB filled rhinos 12", disembark and let those heavyflamers rip? :O
If so, thats just some extra Cheddar on my .

fabbes wrote:Abit off-topic here but does this mean i can move my SoB filled rhinos 12", disembark and let those heavyflamers rip? :O
If so, thats just some extra Cheddar on my .

Ummm...you have ALWAYS been able to do that...nothing new about that in 5th

Blackmoor wrote:

Webbe wrote:

GKplayer wrote:

Sharik wrote:You can actually assault further than 24".. 12" LR move, 2" from hatch ~2inch because of the base,6 inch run and 6 inch charge = 28"

I think you meant 26", 12 + 2 + 6 + 6 = 26, but it is still a lot of distance, you can charge in turn one, even you do not infiltrate.

No he meant 28"

It's actually 26"+base size. With 40mm bases it is 27.57".
You can't count on rolling more than 1 on the run roll though so I'd use the minimum move of 22.57" instead when guessing if you can assault or not.

What you do is start your land raider sidewise at the edge of your deployment zone, then you pivot giving you an extra 2" movement to give you a possible total of 30".

I call cheddar on this one!

Your definitely in the enemies deployment zone with such trickery.

I am sending my '1337' squad of crack ninjas to your house for revealing about how I deploy my deathwing termies for maximum gouda stench.

Yeah, there are no restrictions on shooting after disembarking. What you just described is actually a very popular tactic

That is a dirty trick, Blackmoor. I like it.

Blackmoor wrote:What you do is start your land raider sidewise at the edge of your deployment zone, then you pivot giving you an extra 2" movement to give you a possible total of 30".

So you advocate cheating then?

Alerian wrote:

fabbes wrote:Abit off-topic here but does this mean i can move my SoB filled rhinos 12", disembark and let those heavyflamers rip? :O
If so, thats just some extra Cheddar on my .

Ummm...you have ALWAYS been able to do that...nothing new about that in 5th

Ive always thought that if you move 12" you may not disembark, but if you move 6" you can disembark and shoot.

Aw crap! Well i certainly have a few interesting games ahead of me..

Blackmoor wrote:
What you do is start your land raider sidewise at the edge of your deployment zone, then you pivot giving you an extra 2" movement to give you a possible total of 30".

Is this a legal move?

Wouldn't you measure from the where the vehicle started before pivoting?

GG

The Green Git wrote:So you advocate cheating then?

Sound like to me he is playing by the rules. Telling him he is cheating because he is playing by the rules clearly makes you TFG.

Well done!

generalgrog wrote:

Blackmoor wrote:
What you do is start your land raider sidewise at the edge of your deployment zone, then you pivot giving you an extra 2" movement to give you a possible total of 30".

Is this a legal move?

Wouldn't you measure from the where the vehicle started before pivoting?

Yes, its a very legal move. Here is why:

Page 57 of the Rulebook: 'Vehicles and Moving wrote:Vehicles can turn any number of times as they move,
just like any other model. Vehicles turn by pivoting on
the spot about their centre-point, rather than ‘wheeling’
round. Turning does not reduce the vehicle’s move. This
means that a vehicle may combine forward and reverse
movement in the same turn providing it does not
exceed its maximum move. Pivoting on the spot alone
does not count as moving, so a vehicle that only pivots
in the Movement phase counts as stationary (however,
immobilised vehicles may not even pivot).

I agree its a bit shady to pull this on people, but since EVERY army with vehicles can do it (sorry, tyranids) then whats the problem?

[edit to fix formatting errors]

generalgrog wrote:Wouldn't you measure from the where the vehicle started before pivoting?

You would if you had an ounce of fairness in your blood.

Hellfury wrote:I agree its a bit shady to pull this on people, but since EVERY army with vehicles can do it (sorry, tyranids) then whats the problem[edit to fix formatting errors]

And this makes YOU TFG. Follow this line of thought and you will see 3 foot long Battlewagons that are an inch wide. Start on deployment line, pivot, Deploy troops from nose who can now move since the vehicle technically didn't.

Kettle, meet Pot.

Oh, and *PLONK*.

The Green Git wrote:And this makes YOU TFG. Follow this line of thought and you will see 3 foot long Battlewagons that are an inch wide. Start on deployment line, pivot, Deploy troops from nose who can now move since the vehicle technically didn't.

Translation:



"Someone reads the rules better than me! He is a cheater! He has no sense of fair play!"



As far as 3' long battle wagons are concerned, here is a protip:

You have always been able to use modeling to your advantage. Welcome to 1997.

What you do is start your land raider sidewise at the edge of your deployment zone, then you pivot giving you an extra 2" movement to give you a possible total of 30".

Deuce11 wrote:

What you do is start your land raider sidewise at the edge of your deployment zone, then you pivot giving you an extra 2" movement to give you a possible total of 30".

No you cannot do this. It is prohibited by the codex. Otherwise you could chasse' across the entire tabletop or add extra inches to every shot, all under the guise that pivoting is "not moving."

Yup. They included a diagram in the rules to clarify this for 5th edition. It's on p.12 of the rulebook.

Deuce11 wrote:No you cannot do this. It is prohibited by the rulebook. Otherwise you could chasse' across the entire tabletop or add extra inches to every shot, all under the guise that pivoting is "not moving."

Hey guess what, you can do this! Please tell us how this is not allowed? Rulebook references please, Nurglitch already gave us the refs for why it is.

Blackmoor wrote:

Webbe wrote:It's actually 26"+base size. With 40mm bases it is 27.57".
You can't count on rolling more than 1 on the run roll though so I'd use the minimum move of 22.57" instead when guessing if you can assault or not.

What you do is start your land raider sidewise at the edge of your deployment zone, then you pivot giving you an extra 2" movement to give you a possible total of 30".

You pivot around the center of the vehicle. So to gain the 2.43" extra the Land Raider would need to be 4.85" longer than it is wide. I don't have a Land Raider on me but I don't think that's the case.
You can of course use this to gain an extra inch or so though, it all depends of how much longer than it is wide your vehicle is.

Deuce11 and Nurglitch: Check page 57 for vehicles and movement.

Nurglitch wrote:

Deuce11 wrote:

What you do is start your land raider sidewise at the edge of your deployment zone, then you pivot giving you an extra 2" movement to give you a possible total of 30".

No you cannot do this. It is prohibited by the codex. Otherwise you could chasse' across the entire tabletop or add extra inches to every shot, all under the guise that pivoting is "not moving."

Yup. They included a diagram in the rules to clarify this for 5th edition. It's on p.12 of the rulebook.

Can you please tell me what the diagram on page 12 has to do with a vehicle pivoting on the spot?

Page 12 illustrates how you measure from the same point on a models or point on a vehicle (front to front of back to back)


Page 57 talks about something completely different.

Page 57 of the Rulebook: 'Vehicles and Moving wrote:Vehicles can turn any number of times as they move,
just like any other model. Vehicles turn by pivoting on
the spot about their centre-point, rather than ‘wheeling’
round. Turning does not reduce the vehicle’s move. This
means that a vehicle may combine forward and reverse
movement in the same turn providing it does not
exceed its maximum move. Pivoting on the spot alone
does not count as moving, so a vehicle that only pivots
in the Movement phase counts as stationary (however,
immobilised vehicles may not even pivot).

To illustrate how Blackmoor's suggestion is legal, I have made the following diagram:

[edit]#2 should say 'Vehicle pivots 90 degree before MOVING'. Doh!

It does not exceed its maximum movement allowance because it can turn in any direction, any number of times before or after it moves.

The vehicle starts its turn with its side along the deployment zone.
It pivots in place.
It moves X " in any direction, pivoting in any direction it wants to along the way.

Completely legal. Every army which contains vehicles has the option of doing just that.