Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

o_- ? gas mask? I thought the set is just half the content of previous box, with absolutely nothing else different.

LunaHound wrote:o_- ? gas mask? I thought the set is just half the content of previous box, with absolutely nothing else different.

They found out that you could just say that the cadian torso and arms were what flak armor looked like then customize the legs and heads to form all of the different regiments. Five different leg variations and seven head variations - you can do cadian tunics, steel legion coats, valhallan bigger coats, krieg funny looking coats with all of the buttons, and elysian jumpsuits. For heads you have the cadian tridome football helmet, mordian caps, valhallan ushankas, vostroyan bearskin, steel legian gas mask with helmet, tallarn head wraps, and that crazy helmet elysians wear.

Yes it seems that Guard are getting more expensive.
But for those who started with the 10-man metals, its still a hell of a lot cheaper.
And the metals had the exact same 10 poses in every box. At least Cadians did.

Looks like Battleforces and discount online shops is the only way to go for guard.
Unless you already have them.
I am dissapointed thye didn't use this release as opportunity to do what they did with the Ork Boys sprue.


I don't get the constant bitching about prices. Its GW. They have never been cheap, and they never will be.
If you don't like their prices, look around at the other stuff available.
Warmachine is expensive.
Flames of War is expensive.
Perry Miniatures, Wargames Foundry, and Warlord Miniatures are all expensive.
Wargames Factory is cheaper, but you see why in the quality.
The only cheap minis are historicals, and you need at least double the numbers for those games.
The costs even out if you really look at the wargame hobby, not just GW.
The cheap stuff is always either a little wonky, or doesn't quite fit the look that GW has created.

Raxmei wrote:

LunaHound wrote:o_- ? gas mask? I thought the set is just half the content of previous box, with absolutely nothing else different.

They found out that you could just say that the cadian torso and arms were what flak armor looked like then customize the legs and heads to form all of the different regiments. Five different leg variations and seven head variations - you can do cadian tunics, steel legion coats, valhallan bigger coats, krieg funny looking coats with all of the buttons, and elysian jumpsuits. For heads you have the cadian tridome football helmet, mordian caps, valhallan ushankas, vostroyan bearskin, steel legian gas mask with helmet, tallarn head wraps, and that crazy helmet elysians wear.

...What? Not only are they definitely not doing that, but if they did do that it would suck because you would need to buy 7 times as many boxes to get a squad of guard that don't look completely different.

skrulnik wrote:
If you don't like their prices, look around at the other stuff available.
Warmachine is expensive.
Flames of War is expensive.
Perry Miniatures, Wargames Foundry, and Warlord Miniatures are all expensive.
Wargames Factory is cheaper, but you see why in the quality.

Your comparison is, I feel, off the mark. Warlord Games ECW infantry costs £18 for 40. Perrys' ACW infantry cost £15 for 36. Wargames Factory Celts cost £13.60 for 32. Given the immense variability between the model needs of different historical games, the only universal benchmark is £ per head. I omitted FoW and Foundry here because one is a game with a very different scale, and the other deals exclusively in metals, so comparisons to GW (who deals mostly in plastics, after all) are of limited usefulness. Warmachine and Hordes simply are hellishly expensive games.

To say that historical games are more expensive because you need lots of infantry is ignoring the fact that 40k (and Fantasy) armies typically are composed of more than just line infantry, and those other sets (elite troops, vehicles, etc) typically have an even worse cash-for-miniatures ratio.

Games Workshop's pricing in this instance is indefensible, doubly so if the rumored 25% price increase goes into effect in June.

Agamemnon2 wrote:Your comparison is, I feel, off the mark. Warlord Games ECW infantry costs £18 for 40. Perrys' ACW infantry cost £15 for 36. Wargames Factory Celts cost £13.60 for 32. Given the immense variability between the model needs of different historical games, the only universal benchmark is £ per head. I omitted FoW and Foundry here because one is a game with a very different scale, and the other deals exclusively in metals, so comparisons to GW (who deals mostly in plastics, after all) are of limited usefulness. Warmachine and Hordes simply are hellishly expensive games.

To say that historical games are more expensive because you need lots of infantry is ignoring the fact that 40k (and Fantasy) armies typically are composed of more than just line infantry, and those other sets (elite troops, vehicles, etc) typically have an even worse cash-for-miniatures ratio.

Games Workshop's pricing in this instance is indefensible, doubly so if the rumored 25% price increase goes into effect in June.

My price comparison is based on how much cash you drop for a useable army. For most game systems, I have found that $200-$500 is the range, including FoW. In building armies for the new Field of Glory game, I dropped close to $300 for metals and plastics for 28mm Celts. Also, Artillery and Cavalry for historicals are mcuh more expensive than the troops. For the same reasons as GWs stuff. Each player needs less of them.

I am not defending GW's prices. Just pointing out that they are the model for the industry, not a rogue that is just out to gouge us.

For historical stuff, the new plastics are not that much cheaper than the metals.
But the plastics are priced because of competition, not because of material costs.
The GW universe has no such competition for like figures.

If you would like to continue this discussion, maybe a new topic in Discussions would be a good idea?

More objectionable than the level of GW prices are their continual increases, though. Whether they be expensive re-packagings or their regularly scheduled "adjustments", the fact remains, prices are going up. Plastic Cadians used to be £15 for 20 a few years back, now we're in risk of them going to £15 for 10, and there's no sign of them stopping. Meanwhile, other companies are either remaining at status quo or even lowering prices (which is what Reaper did in response to the economy).

Until we start seeing constant and widespread raises from other plastic miniatures companies, I do not accept the claim that GW is just "one of the boys".

Well, honestly, you're still buying. Why do you think they made this codex so powerful, gotta buy more to get that power.

Honestly, I'd take a hit to quality and most likely pickup the upcoming wargames factory scifi infantry. While the quality is great from GW, the designs have been getting worse, yet more expensive.

Well, I'm not buying line infantry anymore, instead I'll refurbish some of the old ones I still have lying around. The new Codex, yes, possibly a command squad, probably not a Valkyrie, definitely not a Primaris or the Ratings.

Out of interest, are they gonna release Penal colony guys??? Or sill we have to make a trip to the modeling room???

Penal troops aren't likely going to be a hugely popular unit, so the best way to model them will likely be a conversion of some sort. Bare heads, rag-tag equipment and cruel-looking close combat weaponry would fit the bill, as well as an officious-looking Custodian.

IMO, the old Mordian Sergeant would be ideal, wearing a dress uniform and harassing around 9 lasgun guys from whatever Necromunda range you most enjoy, with maybe some Catachans or a ragged Cadian thrown in.

An alternative would be the old Rogue Trader era Imperial Guardsmen, you could easily paint their rather plain uniforms in convict style, either a drab grey or high-vis orange, depending on how merciful their commanding officer is.

To the modeling room!

BrookM wrote:Also: a lot of metals are back in the store along with the original Last Chancers boxed set, Macharius (!), Iron Hand Straken, Marbo, AL'rahem and Marbo.

So awesome, Marbo had to be re-released TWICE.

Not Chenkov?

ricekake87 wrote:so does it cost more than the original 20???

It used to be 20 for $35. Now it is $22 for 10.

So yes, it is now $44 for 20 Guardsmen, an increase of around 25%.

HERESY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

H.B.M.C. wrote:Not Chenkov?

Chenkov is there as well, only the model is sold under the name "Imperial Guard Valhallan Officer with Power weapon", Al'Rahem is sold with another Tallarn officer as a pack, I believe the one with the bolter.

skrulnik wrote:
My price comparison is based on how much cash you drop for a useable army. For most game systems, I have found that $200-$500 is the range, including FoW. In building armies for the new Field of Glory game, I dropped close to $300 for metals and plastics for 28mm Celts. Also, Artillery and Cavalry for historicals are mcuh more expensive than the troops. For the same reasons as GWs stuff. Each player needs less of them.

I think IG are going to cost a small fortune compared even to other horde armies. A basic squad with lascannon plasma costs roughly $35.50 (7.50 for plasma, $2.2 a lasgunner x7, and 11.6 per heavy team). That's a core unit that's only 85pts. The same squad with Autocannon and Grenade Launcher is $29.20 for 65pts. Compare those to Ork squads, where a 10 boy mob with any wargear you can imagine comes out to... $22, because it's all in the box! A 30 boy mob is $66 and 235pts, or 3.5pts/$. A marine tactical squad with multi-melta, melta gun, powerfist and Razorback is 250pts and ~$79 ($35 for tac box, $35 for razorback, $9 metal Multi-melta, and a bummed fist), for 3.16 pts/$. At the rumored pts values, an IG platoon with PCS w/4 meltas and chimera, squad with AC/GL and squad with LC/P is 275pts, and costs ~$129.7 ($35.50 for las/plas, $29.20 for AC/gl, $35 for chimera, a converted LT and four meltas at $7.50 each) for 2.12 pts/$.

Add in the fact that even the IG's big ticket stuff isn't that point dense ($58 valks are 130pts, or 2.24 pts/$ compared to 4.8pts/$ for landraiders) and the IG are simply one of the most expensive armies to build. Part of that is the nature of the beast, but part of that is the way the sprues and boxes were set up.

Shep wrote:

ricekake87 wrote:so does it cost more than the original 20???

9 dollars more for 20.

Each guardsman costs an additional $0.45!!!

Certainly worthy of internet ranting

$35 => $44 is a 33% hike.

Even better. In 1999 the same 20 Cats cost you $22, now they cost you $44. that's 10% inflation a year.

Must be the price of steroids.

ANYWAY, Wargames Factory has preovers for something like 1300 sprues of greatcoat infantry.

http://www.wargamesfactory.com/BookingRetrieve.aspx?ID=42195

And 70 pages of discussion over what they will look like

http://wargamesfactory.lefora.com/2009/01/29/sci-fi-greatcoat-infantry/page70/

For those who are interested, 20-man boxes can still be bought from GWOZ!!!!!

Go go go!

I ordered five of those, even though I've got no need for them. Guess I could keep the legs apart for that Vraksian army I've always wanted. Getting legs cheap around here will be a bigger problem now with the kits going up in price and down in contents.

Those filthy..

I smell a conspiracy.

H.B.M.C. wrote:For those who are interested, 20-man boxes can still be bought from GWOZ!!!!!

Go go go!

You know something's up if even HBMC endorses buying from GWOZ!

Shep wrote:
Each guardsman costs an additional $0.45!!!

Certainly worthy of internet ranting

Yeah but you have to buy like 200 of 'em. That's $90 more for a 1000 pt army.....

lol, sweet sweet conscripts... I think I'll skip those, by and large. They're a good way to bulk up your fire or tar pit an assault squad, but damn that'll be expensive now!

I'm looking at one infantry company, and one tank company now. Hopefully an artillery company next followed by a second - mechanized this time - infantry company. Then some super heavies. THEN a whole bucket of conscripts.

Wait... 1000pts of conscripts... that's 250 men. Hmmm..... We shall see.

Agamemnon2 wrote:Penal troops aren't likely going to be a hugely popular unit, so the best way to model them will likely be a conversion of some sort. Bare heads, rag-tag equipment and cruel-looking close combat weaponry would fit the bill, as well as an officious-looking Custodian.

IMO, the old Mordian Sergeant would be ideal, wearing a dress uniform and harassing around 9 lasgun guys from whatever Necromunda range you most enjoy, with maybe some Catachans or a ragged Cadian thrown in.

An alternative would be the old Rogue Trader era Imperial Guardsmen, you could easily paint their rather plain uniforms in convict style, either a drab grey or high-vis orange, depending on how merciful their commanding officer is.

I got yer Penal Legion models right here!



Although that way works out a tad expensive. A cheaper method than the above, if you're wanting to field truly ragtag Legionnaires, would be Empire Flagellants with lasgun/pistol/etc components from a bits seller or whatever.

H.B.M.C. wrote:For those who are interested, 20-man boxes can still be bought from GWOZ!!!!!

Go go go!

Hah, that's funny... if I go from looking at the 10-man box on the US or UK site (which I've been doing) and then switch over the Oz site (or follow my bookmark to the "view entire army product list") the Oz$35 10-man box shows up, not the 20-man one. But if I go through the whole sidebar drop down menu navigation, then the Oz$50 20-man box shows up. Such are the "joys" of the all-in-one GW online store.

those look incredible!

The 10-man box is AUD$35?

So $50 for 20 now, or $70 for the same 20 models in a few weeks. So a 40% price increase for Australia.

Yeah that's fair.

.....So I take it the rumors of extra bits being included to make vets/conscripts weren't true then?



Man...what a rip-off.

Good thing veterans are troops now.

Almost glad I decided not to start the guard army I always wanted. Almost, because I'm saving what is sure to be an unjustifiably large amount of money, but not because I would have been glad to actually make the guard army I always wanted.