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In the battle between double-ply toilet paper and GW minis, double-ply will win every single time. I figure that if I ever have to make that decision, I should just throw out all my minis and never look at them again.

Besides, with a price increase, I can direct my money at my other hobbies. Oh wait... the gaming industry is getting pretty barren too. God dammit.

I never thought I would have considered import gundam models cheap, but GW likes to push it.

Hammerziet wrote:Well if it really is as crippling as 25% then I think it might be what gets me to stop buying direct from GW. I sometimes think I'm the only person on this forum who does that.

In all seriousness why would anyone buy directly from them? There's no sense to it at all. The only reason I can see to ever buy directly from GW is if it's a real life store and you make use of their facilities to paint/game/hang out a lot, and then only if there are no other local options to do those things at. Otherwise why would you? It's just wasting money.

"Whats stopping you from buying one unit per paycheck or per month? You can still have that dream, just pace yourself."

There are a *LOT* of things wrong with this:
1. You lose any buying leverage for volume discounts.
2. You can't buy any large boxed sets (i.e. Battalions, Armies, or Apoc kits)
3. If you aren't local, the gas / shipping adds up

So you would actually pay even more this way!

Has anyone actually wrote to or called them to ask about the scale of these increases yet?

I can't remember if this was said earlier but how much can we "blame" FW for some of the price increase. If you look at how much people shell out for a DKoK army (very tempting with the Guard price increase and new dex). GW sees people willing to pay high prices for the FW minis and believes that they can charge us the same?

If GW's mini's were the quality of FW's and were plastic (so avoid the prep time needed for the resin), then perhaps I could easily accept a yearly price increase.

RIP my DKoK and other future armies...

Sirius42 wrote:Has anyone actually wrote to or called them to ask about the scale of these increases yet?

Several times, since I make a portion of my living selling GW models. The answer so far has been '5 bucks on battleforces, some other stuff going up 3% to 5%'. While that's a pretty general answer, it's a hell of a long way from the '25%' that's been passed down the lane for the last week.

Am I the only one to think "You don't like the price, don't buy the stuff!!"......

probably not....

Got loads of stuff on the shelves already to do, I guess I just don't START the next project and instead FINISH the one's I'm working on.... Simples!

Received White Dwarf #352 yesterday and the price increas is mentioned in it towards the back. Effective June 1, 2009 many metal models and some plastic kits will experience a price increase.

Afterall, we have already seen price increases on the new IG stuff; Command kit is now $25, Valkuryie is $58 and the 10 man troopers is $22, sentinal kit is $25. I suspect there will be more as more new stuff is released.

when's the last time they had a value increase?

Stop complaining. Someone has to pay the proofreaders and playtesters their bonuses.

mikhaila wrote:

Sirius42 wrote:Has anyone actually wrote to or called them to ask about the scale of these increases yet?

Several times, since I make a portion of my living selling GW models. The answer so far has been '5 bucks on battleforces, some other stuff going up 3% to 5%'. While that's a pretty general answer, it's a hell of a long way from the '25%' that's been passed down the lane for the last week.

Thanks for that, see now thats an increase I can be ok with, panic over

3-5 for this year... Personally I'm getting tired of it happening every single year. It just seems like a bit of an insult to us. But I'm sure glad it isn't going to be a complete grab as some have said.

At least give us some 'value added' like give us 3 more guardsman or a spruce of all the special weapons for a few bucks more. To half the number of models that seem exactly the same just seems completely ridiculous. $5 for a new battleforce is well and good in my view because of the sentinel and new command squad that's included... It has all the options & other weapons, which is great. But if you're going to charge $35 for 10 guys, they'd better be very special.

Fafnir wrote:1. Hit a recession
2. Increase prices
3. Lower sales
4. ????
5. ...profit?

Someone's never heard of the Economics concept of Price Elasticity of Demand. It is very possible to lower sales and increase profits. All that has to happen is for sales to drop less than the increase in price. Hell, look at the oil industry for last year to see what I'm talking about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_demand

With kits like the Valks and the Stompas, I really have been impressed with GW lately - they have actually been living up to their "we iz da best" claims as of late. So I won't begrudge them another 5 on Battleforces.

I wonder if the Tyranid Middle Sized Beasties will be raised again. I remember the days when Zoanthropes and Lictors were $12. What are they now? 20 each?

I just buy stuff through my pop's distributor. He gets an umbrella discount for buying anything they supply so when i need something i just tack on an order. I nabbed the foundation paint set for $33 this way.

It kinda helps when your dad owns a comic shop and your uncle owns a hobby shop.

ph34r wrote:I feel like the cadian box price increase is flowing into the overall price increase rumors... there's no way they would stay in business if they increased all prices by 25%.

Like that's gonna happen.

I want a new army every month!

Stuff's like Crack, hence it being known as Plastic Crack!

Railguns wrote:I wonder if the Tyranid Middle Sized Beasties will be raised again. I remember the days when Zoanthropes and Lictors were $12. What are they now? 20 each?

And only 7 months ago they were $17. I'm ebaying more 2nd ed. of both because there's no way I'm paying for new ones.

Sirius42 wrote:

mikhaila wrote:

Sirius42 wrote:Has anyone actually wrote to or called them to ask about the scale of these increases yet?

Several times, since I make a portion of my living selling GW models. The answer so far has been '5 bucks on battleforces, some other stuff going up 3% to 5%'. While that's a pretty general answer, it's a hell of a long way from the '25%' that's been passed down the lane for the last week.

Thanks for that, see now thats an increase I can be ok with, panic over

It'd be unprecedentedly small for boxes and blisters. Those typically go up a whole price band at one go.

The Green Git wrote:Stop complaining. Someone has to pay the proofreaders and playtesters their bonuses.

GW has playtesters?

Ozymandias wrote:

Fafnir wrote:1. Hit a recession
2. Increase prices
3. Lower sales
4. ????
5. ...profit?

Someone's never heard of the Economics concept of Price Elasticity of Demand. It is very possible to lower sales and increase profits. All that has to happen is for sales to drop less than the increase in price. Hell, look at the oil industry for last year to see what I'm talking about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_demand

Thing about oil is that our lifestyle depends upon it. That one resource probably affects every single industry on the planet somehow. Miniatures... not so much. Not only that, but by increasing the price, it makes it harder for new prospective consumers to become interested in the hobby, not to mention that you lower your pool of reliable buyers. That's all fine and dandy so long as those reliable buyers keep putting out the cash, but once they stop or slow down, it becomes harder to recover.

well lets face it they wont care becouse we (vets) are not the target group here the people GW want to buy the models are all the 12 year olds with no siblings and parents that'll buy anything the kid points at.

well the market will adapt. if GW goes too high people will naturally roll off to something else, Personally i'd roll Warmachine and go back to building ww2 display models, if things went out of hand.
But its always a sign that GW is trying to keep afloat and as much as it stings the pocket we should at least continue to keep the hobby going by supporting the biggest name in it. ok my days of £100 spending visits are over but im not going to drop the hobby because of money.

Ozymandias wrote:

Fafnir wrote:1. Hit a recession
2. Increase prices
3. Lower sales
4. ????
5. ...profit?

Someone's never heard of the Economics concept of Price Elasticity of Demand. It is very possible to lower sales and increase profits. All that has to happen is for sales to drop less than the increase in price. Hell, look at the oil industry for last year to see what I'm talking about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_demand

Some where on the GW investors' website they used to have GW's analysis on the game player demographic. Their study found that "our" demand is comparatively inelastic relative to other purchasing we might do. That a 40k or warhammer player would eat cheaper or spend less on clothes in favor buying more gaming products. They price their products accordingly. So GW has obviously heard of it, they've just chosen to follow the more vicious aspect; we're drug addicts and they are our dealers. That said we could always try to hold them up at gun point.

"None of you are hero types, are ya? I didn't think so! Just hand over the box of witch elves, and nobody gets hurt!"

No longer play in their stores, open clubs, use non GW miniatures.

Support those companies producing quality 28mm figures and if an opportunity to buy a non GW mini over a GW mini is there, take it.

I have already decided to use lots of killa kans in my space ork army, I will be using the AT-43 minis for that, the Red Block walkers, trios of which cost $10 at the warstore. My army is bloodaxe, the solid ww2 industrial look will be appropriate after some tinkering and compared to the price of the killa kans... well, then again compared to the killa kans post any price increase...

I am also going to be looking to build a full WHFB army in the future, prolly a very large one and my intention is to find a decent alternative miniature company and buy from them.

So I won't be able to play in a GW shop with it? I wouldn't bloodywell want to anyway.

Or just play other games like Robo Rally, Wings of War, Tannenhauser, or any number of the free to down load games out there.....

Hells teath, if you just like painting the figures, Helldorado do better, but if your REALLY addicted to plastic crack, then get into historical instead and buy the Perry's stuff... you can stull use GW Rules (ie historical) and plastic figures made by the best GW scuplters..... Or use the figures with a better system like DBM or even Hordes of the Things if you like it more fantasy!

As with any addiction, you don't like it, get that monkey off your back, or atleast trade up for a cheaper monkey!!

aka_mythos wrote:My guess is that these price increase hurt more than help GW. The fact that despite price increases they still haven't managed a sustainable profit growth, shows that they're hemorrhaging potential sales. On top of that they're alienating their fan base who increasingly grow adversarial with GW. I mean there was a time where it felt like GW was doing their best to look after our gaming needs doing us a real service and not in it entirely for the money.

But that time was a long, long time ago. Even in the early/mid 90's, GW was very much 'in it for the money'. Ultimately, they always have been - their approach just comes across differently in a different era. I ran a store myself in the mid 90's, and the GW sales-reps were not hesitant to tell me what their goals and target audiences were. It's not really different today than it was back then, to be honest.

People have been saying a lot of the same things about GW for over a decade now - yet they keep chugging along. Obviously people are still buying the product - price-increases and all. Blaming GW alone - which has a goal to make money from their customers - is silly, in my opinion. Ultimate control rests with us, the consumer: only we control our wallets/purses. No one puts a gun to our heads and forces us to buy GW product each week/month/quarter/year.

Obviously over the years, their bean-counters have determined (through whatever means they use) that raising prices doesn't affect their bottom-line as negatively as some of the posters here assume. People see price-increases, they get angry, and they wonder how GW can afford to do it, even in these tough economic times. The answer is that based on history, they know they can do it, and get away with it. They understand they'll lose some players - but loss of players is a constant anyway. But they bank on the notion that new players will continue to join the fold (new kids with new disposable income arrive every day, and newcomers only 'know' the current pricing and have no reason to be miffed about changes from older pricing). They also know that many of the vets will simply grin and bear it, because many of us have invested so much in the hobby already.

As for the vets who own bazillions of figs and decide to move on - well, thanks for your previous massive purchases. To GW - you're just not the target audience, really. Sure, you may buy some random figs here and there, but the bulk of your purchases are likely behind you, and GW, like most businesses, are very 'what have you bought from me lately?'. Sure, some vets will buy new armies - there are always exceptions. But in general, the average vet has no real 'need' to purchase a new army or product line. Who is more likely to purchase an batallion boxed-set: the vet who owns one (or more armies) already, or the new guy getting into one of their games who owns ZERO figs?

It's not 'wrong' to be upset or frustrated about price-increases. We each just have to examine our own situations and decide for ourselves if we're going to continue paying the price they're asking, taking into consideration the amount of enjoyment/entertainment we each respectively derive from the product.

Just my 2 coppers, though.
Mort

As a brand spanking new player to WH40k, I've gotta say the price increases are already making me second guess GW. I Already have a biker, a grunt, and the CSM battleforce and I'm happy I got a discount on them but iffy on how much to throw into the hobby. Simple fact is that Reaper minis are what i LOVE painting and are very cheap. Warhammer...... Not so much. If GW wants to keep new people coming the price raises have to stop. I have already met several people who want to play but then say no because of cost.

AoD wrote:when's the last time they had a value increase?

I'd say that the $95 Baneblade, $95 Shadosword, and $58 Valkyrie are all "value increases" in that they give you a lot more value (well-fitting, easy-to-build plastic kit replacing a resin kit that requires special assembly techniques). I'd say similar things about the current Ork Battlewagon and Stompa, along with most of GW's WFB plastic Cavalry sets, and the plastic Daemons.

Where GW gets kinda stupid is how they deliberately screw players on things like SM Dreads, SM Termies, SM Land Raiders (& variants), along with repackaging WFB and IG models to drive a higher per-model price point.
____

Mort wrote:Obviously over the years, their bean-counters have determined (through whatever means they use) that raising prices doesn't affect their bottom-line as negatively as some of the posters here assume.

That is untrue. When GW did the big "kill the e-tailers" thing to cap discounts at 20%, that was in effect, a 20+% price increase for a huge number of GW customrs. In response to the pending effective price increase, people bought like crazy at 30+% off. The result was that the market was flooded with low-cost product for over a year. The massive supply increase suppressed demand for years to come.

In my case, I bought very heavily on discount to complete my armies, then didn't buy anything for a good 3+ years, then bought only bitz for a couple years (until GW discontinued "proper" bitz service). It wasn't until Apoc that I started buying any volumes at all.

So based on this experience, significant price changes can cause a lot of negative churn and disruption in their normal market.

Actually my thinking is that in this "Tough Economic Climate" they MUST up pricing.

As a "Luxury Item" they are likely to be suffering some reduction in volume of sales, on this basis they have a lower turnover to cover what are pretty much fixed costs (ok, they buy a little less plastic and lead, but overheads etc pretty fixed) so assuming they have a minimum profit they want to make (given they have shareholders) from a reduced turnover, their ONLY option is increased selling prices to re-inflate the turnover.

Their beancounters will have done the math to assess by how much the increased selling prices will shrink their turnover further, and will have factored that into the numbers to garner a planned profit!

The other route of course is reduced base costs, but you can't cut back tto profitability, its just not a practical model.

Besides, I was thinking the other day about all the other companies who release cheaper models..... There are loads, but there are a few intangables you get for the extra mula you pay GW.

1st off they will still be arround next year, which is actually a pretty big deal!

Secondly your getting the same standard and quality all the time no matter where in the world you are.

3rdly the shear level of support for such a range.... no one comes close that I can think off!

non of that comes free, it all costs, and has to be paid for somewhere, which is included in the increased prices!