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Anti-Mag wrote:Could it be so hard to have a whole new species? One that is totally original, or at least so far removed from Tolkien/Geiger/Fafner(!)/WW2 that it feels..... for once, unique?

Any suggestions?

Most likely anything I suggest will be shot down in flames, and my parachute won't open.

It could be anything. A race of pure psychic energy, a race of walking golems akin to (but not copied!) the titans in Shadow Of The Colossus. Obviously human minds have come up with great ideas over the years, but surely it can't be impossible to create one new idea, especially given the somewhat whimsical nature of Warhammer.

But I'll rule out apes in spacesuits.

Now while Samuari didn't have it's origins in China, there are Chinese Ninja's. Yan Chen, iirc?

Anyway, this was supposed to be about the entire Asian population, not just China in general.

I still put my vote to polearm weilding Easterlings with flowing robes and good magic.

@ BrookM / CheeseElemental

I find it highly offensive what you guys are consider anime /weabo and that you would use such a term to describe me .
ESPECIALLY you know nothing about asian culture. You think they only look like that in the animes?

Have you ever considered thats what chinese armor looks like in the first place?
Wait dont tell me you think within thousand of years of ancient chinese history you think ALL their armors look only like terracotta warriors do?

Where do you think japan got their concept for their anime in the first place? here have some look at REAL current Tao Temple Guardian Diety Statues.
Im not a weabo (derogatory ) anymore than your ignorant.

LunaHound wrote:
@ BrookM / CheeseElemental

I find it highly offensive what you guys are consider anime /weabo and that you would use such a term to describe me .
ESPECIALLY you know nothing about asian culture. You think they only look like that in the animes?

Have you ever considered thats what chinese armor looks like in the first place?
Wait dont tell me you think within thousand of years of ancient chinese history you think ALL their armors look only like terracotta warriors do?

Where do you think japan got their concept for their anime in the first place? here have some look at REAL current Tao Temple Guardian Diety Statues.
Im not a weabo (derogatory ) anymore than your ignorant.

OK, I was keeping out of this thread because idle speculate never leads us anywhere as far as GW goes. However, I cannot be the only person that thinks those pictures are full of all kind of W1N. Animated stone temple guardians with armor and weapons supported by chinese style armored troops for the w1n. If PP can mine that line of thought with skorne sculpts so can GW (except their models wouldn't bring the whole range of suck that PP usually brings)

Woah, Cathay is full of monkey men? You're gaking me. I thought it was just humans in an oriental setting.

That is fething stupid, who wants an army of monkey ninjas?

Make them Human and have them look awesome with Samurai and Ninjas and they will sell like hot cakes.

Ok, whatever a new race for fantasy is it's not gonna be something unique and original. Simple reason, GW is a business designed to sell miniatures, armies with a strong basis in something familiar can be marketed easily, you don't have to spend money and time explaining what they are. Same reason movie studios make movies loosely base on old TV shows, the creative work has already been done.
Being creative and unique carries more financial risk than the alternative, since GW has to answer to their share holders I think it's foolish to expect something radical. You can wish for it, just don't expect it.

As for the ideas posted in the thread so far, I think Fishmen would end up looking to close to Lizardmen without scales so they are out, monkeys seem unlikely, Cathay or Araby as new human armies seems a stronger possibility. Yes it's more humans, but it's an easier sell to the people controlling the money.

I think Fantasy is probably over-crowded with armies as it is though, but your opinions may differ

Least Fantasy doesn't have... er... 6 different books to play the same army (Marinez!)

Anti-Mag wrote:Christ; this is looking like a pure 'no-win' situation in my eyes. According to this thread it'll be either

1. Emotionally scarred fringe flicking manga characters, complete with swords three times their size, clad in mid-90's goth wear that isn't fashionable now (nor was it in the mid-90's, to be honest). If GW goes down this route they may as well include Poke swarms to fill out a core choice.

Please do not include a manga influence. I know Tau have it, but it only affects their vehicles and armour. Much as I love certain manga films; it has no place in 40k.

.

That goes to the heart of the Tau love/hate nexus.

A lot of players hate the Tau because they are a tiny beacon of light in a vast ocean of grimdarkness.

A lot of players like the Tau because they are a tiny bit of relief from a monotonous ocean of grimdarkness.

Anti-Mag wrote: A race of pure psychic energy,

I'm not so keen on that one, I like my psychics to stay in the future. But that's how gamers usually are I think. We already have magic no need to throw in psychic powers too.

Anti-Mag wrote: a race of walking golems akin to (but not copied!) the titans in Shadow Of The Colossus.

That would be awesome. A couple of huge colossi on the table with a ton of troops backing them up. But you did kind of shot yourself in the foot there, it is sort of copied from Shadow of the Colossus. Everything is copied form somewhere else, they call it inspiration. It usually turns out a little different each time though.

Anti-Mag wrote:Most likely anything I suggest will be shot down in flames, and my parachute won't open.

It could be anything. A race of pure psychic energy, a race of walking golems akin to (but not copied!) the titans in Shadow Of The Colossus. Obviously great human minds have come up with great ideas over the years, but surely it can't be possible for GW to create one new idea, especially given the somewhat whimsical nature of Warhammer.

But I'll rule out apes in spacesuits.

GW have a long history of copying whatever bit of comic-book culture has recently become popular and munging it all together to make a new game or army

They are not without wit, but they pretty much are without originality.

I would expect an Eastern fantasy army to combine some well known bits of Chinese and Japanese historical armies.

Yes, I agree Kkr. I also agree with Grimhowl that GW bases it's creations on popular franchises in order to boost sales. I wouldn't be surprised to see Necrons get buffed around the time the new Terminator film is released, for example.

Hmm. I guess from my point of view, bland armies don't have me reaching for my wallet. I just can't remember the last time GW produced something that I thought was original, and perhaps in a similar vein, cool. Hell, even the Old World map looks like a three year old's interpretation of our own globe.

I'll wait and see. Speculation won't get us far.

How are monkey men racist to asians.... or to anyone? There's only one race, and that's the human race, and if darwin is right then we all come from monkeys.... so get over it.

Angron wrote:How are monkey men racist to asians.... or to anyone? There's only one race, and that's the human race, and if darwin is right then we all come from monkeys.... so get over it.

Like it or not, people have been characterizing other races as monkeys/apes for hundreds of years in order to make them seem less human.

The most familiar example is characterizations of African-Americans in the US south, but there are plenty of other examples (French characterizations of the English in the medieval period, Asian characterizations of Europeans, Allied characterizations of the Japanese during WWII, etc.).

I don't see GW really wanting to go there - they're bound to offend someone whether it's justified or not. Doubly so since most WFB armies are just fantasy veneers on real world cultures.

What we're forgetting is, this is a guy from Warseer, who was told by a Redshirt

Personally I think a re-release of the Chaos Dwarves should be in order.

Thinking about it, there has been a few "whispers in the wind" about them. The last big international add-on release (not Lustria campaign, I forget what it was) had something about Chaos Dwarves in, and let's not forget the Chaos Hellcannon. Conveniently crewed by Chaos Dwarves, with no explanation as to why they are their, or where the rest of em are.

Maybe it's their turn again?

Still holding out hope for Fishmen.

GW is screwed either way, as people are generally going to fall into one of two groups regarding the introduction of a new army:
1: The "no more human armies" group, or
2: The "no more non-human armies 'inspired' by real cultures because it is ultimately going to be offensive/unoriginal" group.

I really don't know how they can win.

They could re-focus on 40k . . .

Typeline wrote:I wonder if the monkey plastic kits will be any good.

You know, somehow GW would ironically screw that up.


But a monkeyman army would be incredibly boring and pointless, with only the negative connotation to draw from it. Why?

EDIT: Luna that statue is just mad because he has cancer instead of abdominal muscles.

I have an idea for an original race, actually. I was going to write an army book on it, but never got around to it. It's sort of a race of barbarians who have some aspects of beasts in them. I suppose I was inspired in part by barbarian tribes from D&D and the Bothans from Star Wars. Basically, they'd look like fairly bulky, tall humans (Warriors of Chaos sized) with a very thin layer of hair (like we have on our forearms, but more of it) and big sideburns and stuff. They'd use lots of shamanistic magic and be mostly CC-centric.

I really need to get writing.

It's fimir....


/hide

Whatir?

BrookM wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Oh no, FETH OFF with Dynasty Warrior and Team Ninja, that is horrible GAK and should not be brought into this. Defile something else.

Let me understand this? That imagine is deflining warhammer, but monkies and apes from asia is not?

Huh?

I'd love to see a cathay army in fantasy. It would give a great number of conversion possibilities for 40k and I like the idea of another major human empire anyway.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Tau are supposed to be Japanese, the fact their mechs are an EPIC FAIL is irrelevant.

The name 'Tau' is supposed to invoke the Dao/Tao.

Their 5 elements are based on Japan's book of 5 rings.

Fire Warriors carry katanas.

They don't carry katanas. If you'd ever seen a traditional Japanese sword you'd know it has very little resemblance to the short-straight-bladed knife with a flat, studded scabbard that Fire Warriors carry. And "Dao/Tao" isn't even a Japanese word.

The Tau are not Japanese. They are exotic aliens whose culture is different from the Imperium of man, but to then assume that means you can just map them onto any culture you find to be exotic is a sign of ignorance of what that culture is like.

To get things back on topic, when Tau came out, I heard players who knew little about Japan or anime proclaiming them to be GW's attempt to get Japanese players into Warhammer, as though no non-whites can enjoy this game without some superficial indulgence army. This was all despite GW Japan closing all it's stores at the time. They are slowly reopening, and I can promise you that Tau do not appeal to the Japanese customers in my local shop any more than any other army. The most popular armies by far are Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines. Now people are making the same uninformed claims about Cathay- that GW is doing it just to get into the Chinese market. Don't you think that's a bit patronizing?

carmachu wrote:

BrookM wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Oh no, FETH OFF with Dynasty Warrior and Team Ninja, that is horrible GAK and should not be brought into this. Defile something else.

Let me understand this? That imagine is deflining warhammer, but monkies and apes from asia is not?
Huh?

?? You lost me

*edit there seems to be something wrong with quoting, its all blue now

The Tau are not Japanese. They are exotic aliens whose culture is different from the Imperium of man, but to then assume that means you can just map them onto any culture you find to be exotic is a sign of ignorance of what that culture is like.

Except their armor, tech design, name, and general culture is strongly themed in japanese media and culture. Their artistic design is directly based off of japanese "mecha" and their society, clothing, hairstyles, and basically everything else is based on a futuristic vision of japanese/chinese influences.

To get things back on topic, when Tau came out, I heard players who knew little about Japan or anime proclaiming them to be GW's attempt to get Japanese players into Warhammer, as though no non-whites can enjoy this game without some superficial indulgence army. This was all despite GW Japan closing all it's stores at the time. They are slowly reopening, and I can promise you that Tau do not appeal to the Japanese customers in my local shop any more than any other army. The most popular armies by far are Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines. Now people are making the same uninformed claims about Cathay- that GW is doing it just to get into the Chinese market. Don't you think that's a bit patronizing?

Not really. All of the fantasy armies are based in a "real world" fictional setting. The empire is germanic, the vampires are classic european vampires, the tomb kings are clearly egyption, the brettons are clearly european or english knights, there is even a south american continent of men wearing animal clothes and weilding obsidian axes. Fantasy is a colorful mirror of the real world, cathay is clearly meant to be a mixture of japanese and chinese cultures into a single "dragon empire". It shouldn't be patronizing to think of them as such, understanding the basis of a design and the cultural heritige and design ethos that goes into a design isn't patronizing. The tau are space anime japanese in the same way that the space wolves are space vikings and the death korps of krieg are spaze nazis. The connections may be tenuous and strictly visual, but they are far from unintentional.

As for cathay being a segue into the chinese market, I think it may hold some weight. Its not likely to be the best performer, but a level of familiarity within a setting is proven to increase adoption rates within a platform. Adapting a product to its region is a standard practice within global business, and a more historically asian army could well improve sales significantly in the asian markets. The reason Tau don't do well in japan is the same reason 40k doesn't. The japanese culture is inundated with neo futuristic settings featuing robots. Its mundane to them. 40k (the tau specifically) doesn't do well in japan compared to fantasy because it has so much competition from artistic sci fi sources that frankly are just better. The tau designs are great in a lot of areas, but the biggest ones (the alien empire designs and the mechs themselves) are just awful.

For examples of how culturalization can improve a platforms success (40k is a platform for model sales) just check out the xbox and xbox 360s attempts to break into the japanese market. Time and time again the system and its games have been rebuffed by the japanese consumers and to date virtually all of its best selling games have been traditional JRPGs designed specifically to help break into the japanese market. Japan and to a much lesser extent china is a not a market that takes well to a large amount of foreign cultural influence (to an extent, though bizzarely western popular culture is consitently very popular).

@JOHIRA

Tau does resemble Samurais , and the Tau Ceremonial Knife, you are right they arnt Katanas.
But they are indeed Tan To Kanji = ( Gut Knife aka seppuku knife )

@ShumaGorath: DKoK are NOT nazis. They resemble WW1 German soldiers far more closely than WW2.

My opinion is that a monkey race would look stupid as well as being in absolutely terrible taste. I don't even consider myself that sensitive to racism. For example, as a person of scandinavian descent, I don't mind that scandinavians are the evil barbarians because it's a loose enough association. I do think that it's a subtle dig that the Warhammer world resembles Earth so closely and the Dark Elves inhabit the U.S. but I take this in good humor. That being said, making a Chinese-themed army of monkeys is too much. Sure, Monkey is a beloved figure in Chinese legends, but it is still going to look terrible.

Those pictures of the really pissed off looking guys that Luna posted look totally awesome. I would be tempted to buy some if they looked like that.

And enough with the hate on dynasty warriors/anime culture. I'm not at all a fan of anime but it's a legitimate source of inspiration, especially because GW tends to translate things into a more acceptable form for its specific setting. Relax. No one wants to put school girls with cat ears into WHFB or 40k.

Besides, if I could play Lu Bu on the table, I wouldn't lose a game.