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bravelybravesirrobin wrote:Ethereals have costumes that are similar to Japanese nobility dress.

You think that, huh?

The caste system maps onto the 5 buddhist elements (fire, water, earth, air, heaven)

Which are oh so different from the classical Greek and Hindu elements, eh?

The very notion of castes is reflective of modern Chinese communist society.

Have you by chance been to China? I can guarantee you that despite whatever faults China may have, their society is structured in no way even remotely resembling the Tau.

For anyone saying that the suits don't look like anime I advise you to watch appleseed which features man-sized bunny eared suits with weapon arms and jetpacks that bare an uncanny resemblance to the crisis suits.

So two aerials on the head and a jetpack are all it takes to make something anime now?

No, a badly designed robot suit makes something anime now. I have no problem with somewhat more realistic animes like Death Note and Ghost in the Shell, but stuff like Gundam really dulls the image of anime to be honest.

LunaHound wrote:

carmachu wrote:

BrookM wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Oh no, FETH OFF with Dynasty Warrior and Team Ninja, that is horrible GAK and should not be brought into this. Defile something else.

Let me understand this? That imagine is deflining warhammer, but monkies and apes from asia is not?
Huh?

?? You lost me

*edit there seems to be something wrong with quoting, its all blue now

I was referring to BrookM, who was commenting that the picture you posted was defiling warhammer. Its odd a samurai-esqe Type model is bad, but apes and winged monkies for warhammer is good?

So, Cathey, huh?
http://www.bordertownburning.de.vu/


Go check out this site for some Mordhiem inspired Cathey stuff. Aside from all this non topic talk, There is still the Legend of the Five rings stuff still out there.

Another new army for fantasy out there might be some chaos dwarfs.

Cheese Elemental wrote:No, a badly designed robot suit makes something anime now. I have no problem with somewhat more realistic animes like Death Note and Ghost in the Shell, but stuff like Gundam really dulls the image of anime to be honest.

How does the singular entity which defined the 'real robot' genre dull the image of anime?

-John

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

JOHIRA wrote:

Vertrucio wrote:Considering how the Tau are basically your Gundam/Mecha in 40k,

No. They aren't. Seriously.

Have you ever even seen a Gundam before? They look nothing like Tau.

Tau are supposed to be Japanese, the fact their mechs are an EPIC FAIL is irrelevant.

The name 'Tau' is supposed to invoke the Dao/Tao.

Their 5 elements are based on Japan's book of 5 rings.

Fire Warriors carry katanas.

They're supposed to be Space Japan, they ain't particularly good at it, but that was the plan.

the problem there is that DAO/TAO has nothing to do with traditional Japan or Japanese for that matter.. The elements is correct but the fact that no fire warriors had little katanas on their sprues kinda shoots that argument right out of the air.. (and don't even try to convince me that the ritual knife is a katana, cause isn't.

ON that note, if they are doing monkeys, I want the POO FLINGING kind..

Cheese Elemental wrote:No, a badly designed robot suit makes something anime now. I have no problem with somewhat more realistic animes like Death Note and Ghost in the Shell, but stuff like Gundam really dulls the image of anime to be honest.

Would it pain you to know that Gundam (and it's whole franchise) is by a land-slide, the most popular and longest running Mecha Anime of all time?

I guess the Japanese don't know their own animation as well as you do!

Realistic shows like Death Note eh? As someone who has watched anime for about... 20 years now, studied japanese culture and the language with his own free time, who's favorite subgenre of anime is Mecha and read the Manga of Death Note before it was produced into a show - let me just say that quoting something from the past few years of the history of the artform doesn't make you a connoisseur of the medium.

And Death Note isn't realistic at all, it's probably one of the most "out there" Manga's I've read in terms of believability and "realism".

"I have a magic book that lets me dictate when people die, along with my Death God side-kick - I shall rewrite the world in my own Utopian image - all the while being embroiled in such a hokey murder mystery it would make Alfred Hitchcock shed a tear?"

Stupid stereotype arguments and anime pissing contest aside, the only old non-human armies that were in the original books are Zoats and Fimir. I would assume they fixed the Fimirs fluff (I can't see the bean counters wanting market an army whose main goal is grabbing women to rape) and I have always liked the models and rules for them..

As GW has shown in the past, they do a crappy job (i.e racist / insulting) of including non-Europeans. It's better that they just don't go down that road.

That said, if they go for the cheap carcaritures, don't be surprised to find the anti-defamation groups on their asses, likely with expensive lawsuits in America.

If you think GW is financially challenged now, just throw them into a few "on principle" class-action lawsuits by people with nothing to lose, and see how they do.

Somewhere, in our race-conscious, lawsuit-loving, anti-corporate America, there is got to be a Judge who'll certify such a lawsuit, and woe betide any corporation who lands in his sights...

This thread went from ok to stupid to awful.

-DD no one is going to sue them for a monkey race. Tasteless? Yes. But not to the point where anyone could sue.
-Cheese Elemental just stop arguing. You're hurting your cause so much more with every post.
-Johira, clearly the tau are inspired by futuristic mecha anime. The caste system is not reminiscent of communism, and the actual society is a bizarre mix of a few current cultures, startrek and HALO. Mostly star trek and HALO. However almost every visual design is heavily inspired by asian art, popular culture, and history. To say otherwise is foolish. You can nitpick minor details, but simple because the sword the fire warriors have with their futuristic samurai armor is not the exact length of a katana doesn't mean thats not what its based off of.

If they were exactly the same they would be space japanese. Not tau. The point of artistic interpretation is to draw paradigms from one popular design ethos and transfer it to another. That is what they were stated as having done, its what they obviously did, and it's what they do with almost every army.

Could you give some examples of un-favourable inclusions of non-europeans?

I'm not super knowledgable about the Tau but I can't see how they could be considered offensive, and there are a fair few non-european SM and IG characters..
(of coures, I don't know their exact histories, maybe they are super stereotypes ;P).

Anyway, I don't get what's wrong with using non-european cultures as the basis for various alien races.. If you can't use any foreign culture as inspiration for anything, you are really limiting yourself.

Given that games workshop sells models on several continents I'm pretty sure a good number of their races are based in foreign culture no matter where you are already.

@Shuma: The US is a wierd place, and people can sue for any reason. Whether they win or not is a different issue. As is how much it costs in actual dollars to ultimately prevail in such a lawsuit.

I know Hello Kitty was PO'd to find they're heads had been removed and placed on SM bodies.

I'm just trying to speak up for all the Hello Kitties out there.

The amount of political correctness in this thread is sickening.

And not very Dakka too.

Dear lord this thread is mind numbing now ....

And by Tao, I assume you me Taoists, i.e. that religion?

That I'm a member of?

And, no. I don't see the point of monkey men in fantasy. Just re-work the gakking Chaos Dwarves!

JohnHwangDD wrote:@Shuma: The US is a wierd place, and people can sue for any reason. Whether they win or not is a different issue. As is how much it costs in actual dollars to ultimately prevail in such a lawsuit.

It's not that expensive when the judge throws the suit out for being ridiculous.

Disjointed Entity wrote:

And, no. I don't see the point of monkey men in fantasy. Just re-work the gakking Chaos Dwarves!

Finally, a ray of light! A shining beacon of wisdom!

(And a thread rapidly reaching its expiration date?)

Alpharius wrote:

Disjointed Entity wrote:

And, no. I don't see the point of monkey men in fantasy. Just re-work the gakking Chaos Dwarves!

Finally, a ray of light! A shining beacon of wisdom!

(And a thread rapidly reaching its expiration date?)

The day the chaos dwarves come back are the day they bring back the zoats and the squats and every other awful and stupid race that was removed for a good reason.

Topic #1: Tau as Space Japan

Although the All-Knowing Wiki is not infallible, it reports that Tau aesthetics were heavily influenced by East Asian history and pop culture. It says, "The Tau Infantry models, according to sculptor Jes Goodwin, were designed to have subtle influences taken from Chinese foot soldiers, while the Battlesuits and vehicles drew from anime style exo-suits." Fire Warriors have armor that resemble Qin Dynasty infantry armor or that of the Japanese samurai armor, especially with the rectangular shoulder pads. The Crisis Suits look very little like a Gundam, but much more closely resemble something out of Appleseed.

Topic #2: Cathey / Nippon

I am not familiar with the WHFB universe, but if it is true that Cathey = China and Nippon = Japan, then a pure Cathey army would and would not have:

YES: Fighting monks, chariot-riding generals, ninja-like assassins in black, black powder artillery, cutlasses, thin shortswords, glaives, chain whips, hookswords, "The Flying Guillotine" (all Chinese)

NO: ninjas as such (Japan), samurai (Japan), Katana/Nodachi/Todachi (Japan), Nunchaku (Japan), Tonfa (Japan), shuriken (Japan) Cherry Clan candies (USA)

Topic #3: So, what *IS* the new army?

Possibilities (according to the rumors and the buzz) include:
- Cathey
- Cathey / Nippon / Others as a "Dragon Kingdoms" army
- Fishmen
- Chaos Dwarves

I don't think that monkey/ape Cathey is a very realistic possibility here.

If it is indeed a "Dragon Kingdoms" army, I would like to see:
- Dragons! Long, scaly, wormy dragons with whiskers!
- Ninja, samurai, and countless terracotta warriors that are "without number."
- Assorted generals with special skills or bonuses, a la Imperial Guard Commisars
- A possible command squad that includes a prince and his retinue of a pig warrior, a water demon, and a monkey that rides on a cloud (a la Journey to the West)
- Ninja monkeys. Why? They're freaking ninja monkeys, man! I mean, come ON! Monkeys throwing suriken around? Priceless!

ShumaGorath wrote:

Alpharius wrote:

Disjointed Entity wrote:

And, no. I don't see the point of monkey men in fantasy. Just re-work the gakking Chaos Dwarves!

Finally, a ray of light! A shining beacon of wisdom!

(And a thread rapidly reaching its expiration date?)

The day the chaos dwarves come back are the day they bring back the zoats and the squats and every other awful and stupid race that was removed for a good reason.

They never took em fully out. They're still crewing the Chaos Hellcannon.

Maybe the Hellcannon crew are "Dark" Dwarves, rather than "Chaos" Dwarves?!?

@two_heads_talking

Read my post , i made a perfect explanation for Fire Warrior's knife , i even include a pic!
bottom of page !

DD no one is going to sue them for a monkey race. Tasteless? Yes. But not to the point where anyone could sue.

In a country were a person can sure an RV company for putting a coffe maker to close to the drivers seat (because he was stupid and on a relatively straight length of road decdided to stop driving get up and make coffee) and win is a very sad country.

Plus the Google ruined You Tube....

In a country were a person can sure an RV company for putting a coffe maker to close to the drivers seat (because he was stupid and on a relatively straight length of road decdided to stop driving get up and make coffee) and win is a very sad country.

It's fairly easy to sue over personal injury cases. I doubt anyone is going to swallow the monkey race and claim that it was a racist attack. Claiming that someone could sue for this is the same as my saying that someone could sue because the edge of this laptop is kind of sharp and uncomfortable to type on.

Yeah, I could cut my wrists somehow and try and sue. But I likely won't win and i definitely won't be able to claim that it was done in an effort to defame whites.


Also, youtube was always a den of crap, idiocy, and really poor quality movies of people getting hit by things to the sounds of KORN and Linkin Park.

This is funny... if G-Dub does a Asian themed army it's gonna be odd... The Dark Gothic look that is G-Dub has mastered, doesn't fit into the Anime Asian theme.
The Tau are Proof, G-dub made to grab onto a "Fad" anime... they could've made something much better and already in the mytho's of 40K, but Tau...

I'm still on the fence with this one, not because Anime or Asian themed armies are bad or suck... I love Anime. just G-dub pulling it off seems unlikely...

I'm bettin all this is just Smoke and Mirrors...
as far as the anime haters... you guys are all funny...
go put a head on a spike and paint some more chain mail... over and over and over...
"Yay! more Chain mail and spikes... I hate new things!"

Kid_Kyoto wrote:If they make Asia the land of yellow monkeys that's it, I'm done.

I really thought they'd outgrown that whole non white=non human thing.

I feel you! it wasn't until the Mid 90s I seen a Black guardsmen. I've never seen any other race represented by the studio... and please save your salamanders speech...and to this day G.W. paints the entire galaxy as Europeans... veryveryvery rare is it for g-dub to have any other ethnicity in the game... so how is that racist? it's fact...

"Phase 13 - The melanochrome, or melanochromic organ, is hemispherical and black. It functions in an indirect and extremely complicated manner. It monitors radiation levels and types bombarding the skin, and if necessary sets off chemical reactions to darken the skin to protect it from ultraviolet exposure. It also provides limited protection from other forms of radiation."

this means they have to be "White" to begin with...but enough logic... Kid Kyoto is a very respectable member of the gaming community and I mean the Whole thing not just Dakka...

and the guy who keeps screamin racist... your... mislead and in need of real life experience

I wish infinity was plastic... it's so refreshing...

TBH , Ogre Kingdom , Orcs and Goblins , Lizardmen ,

those 3 armies doesnt look any grim dark to me either.

Besides we have Dogs of War.

LunaHound wrote:
TBH , Ogre Kingdom , Orcs and Goblins , Lizardmen ,

those 3 armies doesnt look any grim dark to me either.

Besides we have Dogs of War.

Nitpick: Bad grammar is bad.

Ogres eat humans. GRIMDARK.
O&G are a sad race always at war because they never knew any better. GRIMDARK.
Lizardmen are trying to stop Chaos, which is GRIMDARK. It carries over.

LunaHound wrote: Besides we have Dogs of War.

If DoW are the new army, I'll be very happy.

I'm pretty sure it's up to the painter to decide how grim and dark any given army is.

Let us look at how the following examples rate on the 'Dark Grimly's spikety skull scale of grimly darkness'

Ogre covered in gore and carrying a half eaten human human limb - rating 5 spikety skulls out of 5

Bright yellow chaos marine with a pink posy shoulder-pad - rating .25 spikety skulls out of 5