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From one EMT to another:
-try having someone who decides to play with a cigarette to close to their eye...

Ouch! People injure themselves in interesting ways sometimes...


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beef wrote:

whatwhat wrote:Both options are GW disguising the fact that the Salamanders are just the token black guys in 40k.

This used to be the case in the 3rd edition. But with the racist undertones GW changed it in the 5th to jet black with red eyes. In 3rd they were actully just black (or dark brown) like african people. However when you added the fact they were +1 strenght and -1 Initiative it just made it seem racist that the black marines were stronger yet slower than the average white marine. Something hitler believed in,

I had thought that was because of the fact that the gravity their home planet was higher which made them a little bit slower on reaction times and not intelligence! I think it's mentioned in the fluff somewhere. But having them dark,dark, brown make more logical sense because even the darkest person isn't coal black. But what about the locals who live there? Are they dark too are just the marines once they go through the process?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

romulus571 wrote:If the salamanders were supposed to be black, wouldn't GW have to come up with a whole other set of marine heads to cover negroid facial features? That's the moneymaking machine I know as GW. Unless of course the sculptors aren't used to african features...

Although it's technically not fluffy, I'm painting my Salamanders with dark, but not coal skin. However, I might have to get my hands on some resculpted heads if I -really- want to do it right. But that's a matter for Painting & Modeling

*edited once on account of PC rage

I think it'll be hard (but not impossible) to sculpt negroid facial features on a model of that size unless you add other features such as hair texture (afro type hair or locks). If the marine is bald it'll be very hard to tell unless he's painted.

I agree coal black and red eyes - my reading of fluff is its mutation not genetic descent of the population

solution for modelling is to keep helmets on!

tigonesskay wrote:I had thought that was because of the fact that the gravity their home planet was higher which made them a little bit slower on reaction times and not intelligence! I think it's mentioned in the fluff somewhere. But having them dark,dark, brown make more logical sense because even the darkest person isn't coal black. But what about the locals who live there? Are they dark too are just the marines once they go through the process?

Salamanders are jet black with red eyes because of a radioactive mutation (Ironic how the Imperium hates mutants, and yet...). So they actually are charcoal black. It's not a natural occurance, and they weren't like that before they settled on Nocturne. So having them dark, dark brown actually makes -less- sense because by their fluff, they're a very rich, dark charcoal colour.

And yea, Nocturne's high gravity made them slower in movement, not mind. Initiative is a measure of speed, not intelligence. Intelligence is covered by strategy rating. And Salamanders have the same level as all other Chapters. There's nothing racist about lowering their Ini by 1 and upping their strength to compensate and make them fit the fluff. It's also why they have very few Fast Attack options

Salamanders have glowing red eyes and pitch black skin.

On page 110 of the 5th Edition SM Codex you can see a Salamanders Librarian with his face exposed...

Also, doesn't 'Negro' come from 'Negroid' which is (or was, I read this in a textbook from the '80s...) the name of the race?

Yes, as well as several other referances to them having black skin and red eyes. I think it's more or less indisputable now.

And no. That's already been covered, if you read the first page. It actually just means 'black' in Spanish. It's form as a racist term was coined by the English misinterpreting it's use by Spanish slave traders. School textbooks shouldn't be trusted all the time. Hell, most of them still say the Gulf of Tonkin incident was real, when the US Government already confirmed it was made up to start a war decades ago. Food for thought next time you're in your classroom.

metallifan wrote:

tigonesskay wrote:I had thought that was because of the fact that the gravity their home planet was higher which made them a little bit slower on reaction times and not intelligence! I think it's mentioned in the fluff somewhere. But having them dark,dark, brown make more logical sense because even the darkest person isn't coal black. But what about the locals who live there? Are they dark too are just the marines once they go through the process?

Salamanders are jet black with red eyes because of a radioactive mutation (Ironic how the Imperium hates mutants, and yet...). So they actually are charcoal black. It's not a natural occurance, and they weren't like that before they settled on Nocturne. So having them dark, dark brown actually makes -less- sense because by their fluff, they're a very rich, dark charcoal colour.

And yea, Nocturne's high gravity made them slower in movement, not mind. Initiative is a measure of speed, not intelligence. Intelligence is covered by strategy rating. And Salamanders have the same level as all other Chapters. There's nothing racist about lowering their Ini by 1 and upping their strength to compensate and make them fit the fluff. It's also why they have very few Fast Attack options

A Mutation...Well NOW that makes more sense, with a mutation you can turn all kinds of crazy colors. So if the salamanders were some where esle they wouldn't be jet black but their natural unmutated default color...

tigonesskay wrote:A Mutation...Well NOW that makes more sense, with a mutation you can turn all kinds of crazy colors. So if the salamanders were some where esle they wouldn't be jet black but their natural unmutated default color...

It is a mutation of an organ caused by Nocturnes environment. If you are African you don't become white if you go to live in Norway do you?

Gwar! wrote:

tigonesskay wrote:A Mutation...Well NOW that makes more sense, with a mutation you can turn all kinds of crazy colors. So if the salamanders were some where esle they wouldn't be jet black but their natural unmutated default color...

It is a mutation of an organ caused by Nocturnes environment. If you are African you don't become white if you go to live in Norway do you?

I think I posted that wrong...
I meant to say if the salamanders had originated on a different planet, they wouldn't be jet black.

romulus571 wrote:If the salamanders were supposed to be black, wouldn't GW have to come up with a whole other set of marine heads to cover negroid facial features? That's the moneymaking machine I know as GW. Unless of course the sculptors aren't used to african features...

Although it's technically not fluffy, I'm painting my Salamanders with dark, but not coal skin. However, I might have to get my hands on some resculpted heads if I -really- want to do it right. But that's a matter for Painting & Modeling

*edited once on account of PC rage

Actually why would GW need to do that, when they have gaurd armies with black soldier such as the catachans do they make seperate heads for them>> NO so why would they need to do that with Space marines.??

You can use green stuff to sculpt afro features like (dread)lock and such.

I find it funny that in the preview of the second sally novel on the cover the SM helmet is off but his face appears to be in shadow and has the red glowing eyes. You can't tell if his skin is coal black or just in shadow. It seems that GW is playing that PR game again..
Real slick...

I'm guessing relevant new information doesn't count as necro?

Could also be because coal black skin is really, really hard to paint well. Like the black armour problem but far worse. I have a friend that has a Salamander army that has the (very few) bare headed marines with as dark a brown skin as he could make it just because every attempt he made of going black skin made it look like they'd stuck their face in the exhaust of the landraider.

It should be noted that, technically speaking, all humans have the same skin *color*(brown), just varying shades and tones.

Morgrim wrote:I'm guessing relevant new information doesn't count as necro?

Could also be because coal black skin is really, really hard to paint well. Like the black armour problem but far worse. I have a friend that has a Salamander army that has the (very few) bare headed marines with as dark a brown skin as he could make it just because every attempt he made of going black skin made it look like they'd stuck their face in the exhaust of the landraider.

I see that's also true in animation anything that is pure black either has blue or gray highlights.