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corpsesarefun wrote:

LunaHound wrote:
Since negro means black or dark , im guessing it doesnt really make a difference o_o

Negro was a degratory term used by slave owners to refer to black people, it was used as a species name.

In roman times, Africa was called "Nigeria" by the romans, because that was the skin color of the people who lived there. Gradually this term became misused by the barbarians

Back on topic, I thought salamanders were made "A dark Gray" color now, or something, because GW is more afraid of backlash than the OP is

The colour of the Salamanders skin is debated. Some say it's charcoal black others afro-american black. I personally think the second option is more realistic

Boss 'eadbreaka wrote:The colour of the Salamanders skin is debated. Some say it's charcoal black others afro-american black. I personally think the second option is more realistic

The second option is also wrong. Both the current AND the Original Fluff describes them as Coal Black with Red eyes.

Both options are GW disguising the fact that the Salamanders are just the token black guys in 40k.

if anyone wants a very easy way of painting up their bareheaded Salamanders, i used Charadon Granite basepaint for their skin, with badab black wash.... easy, already highlighted skin only thing is, if you do the "glowing" red eyes thing, youll probably want to paint the eyes after the washes are done.

whatwhat wrote:Both options are GW disguising the fact that the Salamanders are just the token black guys in 40k.

This used to be the case in the 3rd edition. But with the racist undertones GW changed it in the 5th to jet black with red eyes. In 3rd they were actully just black (or dark brown) like african people. However when you added the fact they were +1 strenght and -1 Initiative it just made it seem racist that the black marines were stronger yet slower than the average white marine. Something hitler believed in,

I actually perefered having them being dark skinned without the red eyes.

Well to me they are black marines, I am black and I dont see why they would need to change the fluff just to tip toe around race issues.

The question is who is the american marine?
Who is the German marine?
Who is the spanish marine?
ETC

If you just stick with what the codex says, the Salamander's have coal black skin and red eyes because of the high levels of radiation on Nocturne. I doubt this means that they are African, unless GW writers normally encounter red-eyed Africans, or are under the belief that Africa is under enough non-lethal radiation so as to turn all skin coal black, etc.

To address earlier posts, There aren't 'African Black' marines because all the guys making the game are white men, when you're a white guy you usually make the people you're writing about white guys, 'cause thats what you relate to. But in these more PC times (and I spose more equal rights times) you see 'Eavy Metal painted squads with the occasional Black person. Infact, I've seen armies where people make them all Black (in the non-salamanders way).

If I was actively thinking about it every 1 in like 20 of my marines would be black, but I dont think about that when painting, especially because most have helmets on so doesnt matter anyway.

And to address the Salamanders the current idea is coal black but you could always paint them 'African Black' and say they came from a less effected area of Nocturne, which is completely possible. our LFGS Manager has a Salamanders army who're all 'of African descent' like they were saw during Armageddon Codex. It's your hobby, make them African descent if you want, theres an explanation for it.

BrotherStynier wrote:

Gwar! wrote:Yay I love this topic because IT'S RACIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

corpsesarefun wrote:Using the word negro to refer to black peple is probably not the best idea... however in answer to your question they were originally of african skin colour but they have since been retconned to be pitch black

Wrong, they were not "retconed", they were "Re-Retconed".

I'll summarise:
Original Fluff: Coal Black Skin and Red Eyes
Armageddon Codex: The idiots painting the Models paint them as "Black" and all hell breaks loose from the Fluff nuts. GW Realised they made a boo-boo.
New Codex: GW Fix it by reaffirming the old Coal Black Skin Fluff.

So yeah, if you want a fluff correct Sallies force, its BLACK skin. Of course, if you want to paint Them with Brown, White or Purple skin, it's up to you.

You're racist

As far as I can tell Gwar is correct, what a shocker Gwar right about something... /sarcasm

The Black skin, Red eyes and Green armour is something that I though was pretty sweet back when I'd hang around in the local hobby store wondering just what the hell 40k was.

Actually Gwar! is wrong, which is quite usual but usually blatantly ignore by the Gwar! is right lobby.

Salamanders were orginally caucasian. In the very earliest days they had dark angels green armour, dark angels became green (oringal colour black) due to a clerical error in and early work.
Anyway the ethnicity of the marine himself was not established at the time.

The earliest Salamander artwork was in regards to the GW boardgame of Ghazhkulls assault on Armageddon which was a near direct copy of operation barbarossa with thew Imperium being the Soviets. Artwork showed helmetless Salamanders as being blond haired caucasians.

This was later retconned around the time of Codex Aramageddon to create and negroid chapter because so far with exception of the White Scars all loyalist chapters had a caucasopid ethnicity. They should have chosen Iron Hands or Raven Guard instead as there were IIRc no canon pictures of marines from those chapters without helmets. But anyway Salamaders became negroid.

Now if they are litterally black skinned it will be a third retcon, though this is the first i heave heard of this, though I havent read the Salamanders novel and this will explain my being behind the times on this matter.



Best I could do for a picture at short notice. The chapter depicted are Salamanders, though it isnt clear at that level of magnification. Notice the armour colour has been revised many times as the faces.

I understand...that you are saying...that Gwar! is wrong...and that...Salamanders were white?

See, the numerous spelling and grammatical errors in your post make it very difficult to understand what you are saying.

Bottom line: Salamanders have jet black skin and luminescent red eyes.

jimsolo wrote:I understand...that you are saying...that Gwar! is wrong...and that...Salamanders were white?

See, the numerous spelling and grammatical errors in your post make it very difficult to understand what you are saying.

Bottom line: Salamanders have jet black skin and luminescent red eyes.

This. Ultramarines used to be 3rd founding, Leman Russ was a Imperial Guard Captain and Necrons used to Harvest people for energy. Fluff gets retconed all the time.

Quite a few chapters are based around mythological creatures. There are others than the ones I've mentioned though.

Space Wolves = Werewolves
Blood Angels = Vampires
Salamanders = Fire Giants




Thats what it was originally until they made a mistake, like Gwar! pointed out. They were never meant to be linked to real life races, just like the Space Wolves, Blood Angels and the other chapters that are based off of mythological creatures. Some of the chapters are probably based off of real world stuff, but that doesn't mean all of them need to be.

n0t_u wrote:

Why do non mammal mythological beasts always have tits

Who says giants aren't mammals? They have hair (I think...of a fashion...) and they give live birth, I believe. Or they could, anyhow. They could be mammals.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And for the record I am a card carrying member of the 'Gwar! is right' lobby. I have yet to see him be wrong on an issue where there was a right or wrong answer. (Although I have disagreed with his opinion a few times)

Gwar! wrote:

n0t_u wrote:

Why do non mammal mythological beasts always have tits

I don't know, those were the two best pictures the Google search returned that showed the glowing eyes and charcoal skin.

The other images were like this

n0t_u wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

n0t_u wrote:

Why do non mammal mythological beasts always have tits

I don't know, those were the two best pictures the Google search returned that showed the glowing eyes and charcoal skin.

The other images were like this

lol

If the salamanders were supposed to be black, wouldn't GW have to come up with a whole other set of marine heads to cover negroid facial features? That's the moneymaking machine I know as GW. Unless of course the sculptors aren't used to african features...

Although it's technically not fluffy, I'm painting my Salamanders with dark, but not coal skin. However, I might have to get my hands on some resculpted heads if I -really- want to do it right. But that's a matter for Painting & Modeling

*edited once on account of PC rage

On Topic: I like better the Salamanders painted with brown skin tones (I mean like real black people), rather than chaos black and red eyes. That's scary.

Off Topic: I don't know what's the origin in English for the word "negro", but in spanish, negro is just a colour: black (like rojo=red, yellow=amarillo, brown=marrón, white=blanco...). We use it to talk about black people, it hasn't got any pejorative interpretation. Well, it has that sense if you say the equivalent to "f****ng black". Here the equivalent for the word "niger" or "niga", is "negrata". Here, calling "amarillo" (literally "yellow") to a chinese, japanese, korean and such kind of oriental people, is pejorative. Why yellow is and black isn't pejorative? I don't know.

Just for adding some data to the etymological discussion.

By Russ and the Emperor, it is a Bloody Game. Also, "Afro-American" is not politicly correct. You don't call a Person from Senegal or Nigeria Afro-American do you?

If you are painting your models skin with a high concentration of melanin to make a point, you have far bigger problems imo.

tigonesskay wrote:

jimsolo wrote:Sniper beat me to it, but the SM codex has several pictures of Salamanders with flesh exposed. And they are black as, well, Chaos Black.

All throughout the Salamanders novel they refer to it as jet black skin. And jet black is about as black as it gets.

And on the eye issue, I would guess...you ever see a photo with severe red-eye? Like that. Or like the Terminator.

As an EMT I've seen a severe case of red-eye. And it was pretty nasty espeically when the cause is from herpes...
The terminator eye is a more pleasing image...

From one EMT to another:
-try having someone who decides to play with a cigarette to close to their eye...

I've got Codex: Armageddon and the Salamanders have Jet-Black skin and red eyes due, by fluff, to the radiation on Nocturne. They use this as an advantage because, as Erasoketa wrote, it makes them scary. Armageddon fluff on the Salamanders said that they've won whole battles without firing a shot. Their enemies were just -that- afraid of their 'demonic' appearance

The 5th Ed Rulebook has them with black skin, and I believe the same can be said for the 4th ed rulebook as well.

I've only seen one picture, one, where their skin was dark and not jet black. And I can't, for the life of me, remember where I saw it. Far as I'm concrened, that omits it due to what would seem to be dominance of the jet-black theory.

metallifan wrote:I've got Codex: Armaggeddon and the Salamanders have Jet-Black skin and red eyes due, by fluff, to the radiation on Nocturne.

All the RABBLE comes from Page 14, bottom right corner.

Gwar! wrote:

metallifan wrote:I've got Codex: Armaggeddon and the Salamanders have Jet-Black skin and red eyes due, by fluff, to the radiation on Nocturne.

All the RABBLE comes from Page 14, bottom right corner.

*Sagenod* It was many a year I used that poorly laid out, albeit enjoyable, codex for my Templars

metallifan wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

metallifan wrote:I've got Codex: Armaggeddon and the Salamanders have Jet-Black skin and red eyes due, by fluff, to the radiation on Nocturne.

All the RABBLE comes from Page 14, bottom right corner.

*Sagenod* It was many a year I used that poorly laid out, albeit enjoyable, codex for my Templars

Yes, Cause The Vows are sooooooooooooo Balanced

Gwar! wrote:

metallifan wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

metallifan wrote:I've got Codex: Armaggeddon and the Salamanders have Jet-Black skin and red eyes due, by fluff, to the radiation on Nocturne.

All the RABBLE comes from Page 14, bottom right corner.

*Sagenod* It was many a year I used that poorly laid out, albeit enjoyable, codex for my Templars

Yes, Cause The Vows are sooooooooooooo Balanced

Funny thing is, I -always- forgot to play them. And then halfway through the battle, when I'd see the perfect opportunity for one, I'd realize I forgot to pick one

I was young and forgetful (That and one of my buddies is a TFG and usually abandons a game with some excuse if he starts losing -_- So I tended to forget how to play them)

Codex Armageddon?
Thats more like having every desired skin color.

Examples from there:

Check their fluff section though. There should be a spot where it talks about their jet black skin and red eyes scaring off and demoralizing their enemies. I think there's also a pic near the back with a black-skinned Salamander.

As for those... Maybe they just abducted some hive gangers and crammed a bunch of steroid suppositories in their bungholes, then slapped them around, called them little girls, told them their mothers didn't love them, and then turned them around and pointed them towards the enemy

I understand that people want to be politically correct and racially sensitive. But these aren't normal human beings. We aren't running around saying that their Omophagia gland is culturally insensitive to cannibals, are we? We are not. Their skin and eye colors are mutations in the gene seed. The Space Marine Codex, page 26, up at the top, in the section on Salamanders, starting on the second line, says:

"...Salamanders Chapter have jet-black skin and burning red eyes - a daemonic appearance brought about by a reaction between their unique genetics and the high levels of radiation on the Chapter Planet of Nocturne. This terrifying appearance is entirely superficial, but has intimidated more than one rebellion into submission without a shot fired."

Does it look natural? No. In point of fact, by the word of the book, it looks daemonic. Do any marines look natural? No! They put rivets in their skulls to denote time-in-service! They are eight foot tall, acid spitting, fused rib-caged, cybernetic monsters. I understand that some people may not like the look, and that's fine. Just understand that the coloration is part of what makes them Salamanders.

I mean, if I painted my Ultramarines purple and still claimed that they were Ultramarines, and that I just didn't like blue, what would everyone say? Nothing, they would be too busy laughing at me, that's what.

I appreciate how important aesthetics are in this game. If you want to play an army of African racial heritage, go ahead. Just be aware that its something else, and is in fact a 'counts-as-Salamanders' army, not a Salamanders army.

jimsolo wrote:I appreciate how important aesthetics are in this game. If you want to play an army of African racial heritage, go ahead. Just be aware that its something else, and is in fact a 'counts-as-Salamanders' army, not a Salamanders army.

Excellent delivery, and quite right. The great majority of Salamanders fluff says Black skin with red eyes. That's how I take it. As was said, they can be caucasian or latino or african, but they aren't Salamanders. Salamanders are irradiated and spooky looking.