Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Fleet is in 5th edition. Ghaz gives fleet to all the orks and they roll a 6. Not too thick?

olympia wrote:Ghaz gives fleet to all the orks and they roll a 6.

Ok. So you've just rolled a 6 for Fleet. What does that do for you, again?



The answer is that you don't roll dice for Fleet any more. It's an outdated reference to a rule that has changed. It does nothing, and so by the FAQ should be ignored.

olympia wrote:Fleet is in 5th edition. Ghaz gives fleet to all the orks and they roll a 6. Not too thick?

Errrm... no it doesn't. It gives them fleet and lets them count as rolling a 6 for a Waaagh! Movement. Where are the rules for the Waagh! movement? I see no mention of this Waaagh! movement anywhere in the Ork Codex or in the Fleet Rules.

GAh!

Somebody put the Edit button where it belongs, please!

Ok...this has gone waay farther than my original question. I now know that I cannot run and WAAGH because Fleet is, in essence, a run move that allows you to assault. I am not allowed to run twice, ergo, I cannot run and WAAGH!.


Ghazghkull's WAAAGH! RAW "Ghazghkull's WAAGH! lasts the remainder of that player turn and the following player turn. During this period Ghazghkull's save is invulnerable.

Furthermore, for the duration of the WAAGH! all Ork infantry units count as rolling a 6 for their WAAGH! movement they wish to make. All non-fleeing friendly units become Fearless for the duration of the WAAGH!"

also, you cannot move a full 6" through terrain due to Ghaz's WAAAGH! That is a run move, not a difficult terrain test.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok...this has gone waay farther than my original question. I now know that I cannot run and WAAGH because Fleet is, in essence, a run move that allows you to assault. I am not allowed to run twice, ergo, I cannot run and WAAGH!.


Ghazghkull's WAAAGH! RAW "Ghazghkull's WAAGH! lasts the remainder of that player turn and the following player turn. During this period Ghazghkull's save is invulnerable.

Furthermore, for the duration of the WAAGH! all Ork infantry units count as rolling a 6 for their WAAGH! movement they wish to make. All non-fleeing friendly units become Fearless for the duration of the WAAGH!"

also, you cannot move a full 6" through terrain due to Ghaz's WAAAGH! That is a run move, not a difficult terrain test.

Waagh makes you fleet. Fleet allows you to run before you assault. Running requires you roll a d6. Ghaz gives you a 6" on that roll. As for you RAW fundamentalist--the 5TH EDITION ORK FAQ specifically addresses Ghaz's waagh--specifically that you must wait until T2 until you pop it. CLEARLY if it was meant to be ignored they wouldn't have addressed it specifically in a 5th edition FAQ.

olympia wrote:Waagh makes you fleet. Fleet allows you to run after you assault. Running requires you roll a d6. Ghaz gives you a 6" on that roll. As for you RAW fundamentalist--the 5TH EDITION ORK FAQ specifically addresses Ghaz's waagh--specifically that you must wait until T2 until you pop it. CLEARLY if it was meant to be ignored they wouldn't have addressed it specifically in a 5th edition FAQ.

Christ all mighty do you read? We are not saying ignore the Waaagh! Rule! Its fine, it gives fleet. Fan Tastic. Nowhere does it say you get to Run 6", Run being a specific thing defined in the rulebook.

Fleet does not grant any extra movement, nor does the Waaagh! Rule. The mention of counting as 6 should be ignored as it no longer has any meaning in 5th edition.

Gwar! wrote:

olympia wrote:Waagh makes you fleet. Fleet allows you to run after you assault. Running requires you roll a d6. Ghaz gives you a 6" on that roll. As for you RAW fundamentalist--the 5TH EDITION ORK FAQ specifically addresses Ghaz's waagh--specifically that you must wait until T2 until you pop it. CLEARLY if it was meant to be ignored they wouldn't have addressed it specifically in a 5th edition FAQ.

Christ all mighty do you read? We are not saying ignore the Waaagh! Rule! Its fine, it gives fleet. Fan Tastic. Nowhere does it say you get to Run 6", Run being a specific thing defined in the rulebook.

Fleet does not grant any extra movement, nor does the Waaagh! Rule. The mention of counting as 6 should be ignored as it no longer has any meaning in 5th edition.

So your contention is that you don't roll a d6 when you run?

Gwar is saying that Ghazghkull's Waaugh! doesn't give an automatic six to anything, because the Waaaugh! doesn't apply to running.

I can kind of understand the Deffrolla argument, people can play word games to avoid the rules and its specificity to try confusing the issue about whether ramming is a type of tank shock, blah, blah blah...

But this is just unreal. o.O

Dashofpepper wrote:Gwar is saying that Ghazghkull's Waaugh! doesn't give an automatic six to anything, because the Waaaugh! doesn't apply to running.

I can kind of understand the Deffrolla argument, people can play word games to avoid the rules and its specificity to try confusing the issue about whether ramming is a type of tank shock, blah, blah blah...

But this is just unreal. o.O

The waagh applies to fleet. Fleet applies to running. It's not the hard.

Dashofpepper wrote:Gwar is saying that Ghazghkull's Waaugh! doesn't give an automatic six to anything, because the Waaaugh! doesn't apply to running.

I can kind of understand the Deffrolla argument, people can play word games to avoid the rules and its specificity to try confusing the issue about whether ramming is a type of tank shock, blah, blah blah...

But this is just unreal. o.O

Unreal but the rules. I find it unreal my Grey Hunters can't assault after firing their Bolters any more, as that is what True Grit was written in mind for, however for 2 and a half editions of the game, I have been unable to do that. I don't bitch my rule doesn't work anymore, why should you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

olympia wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:Gwar is saying that Ghazghkull's Waaugh! doesn't give an automatic six to anything, because the Waaaugh! doesn't apply to running.

I can kind of understand the Deffrolla argument, people can play word games to avoid the rules and its specificity to try confusing the issue about whether ramming is a type of tank shock, blah, blah blah...

But this is just unreal. o.O

The waagh applies to fleet. Fleet applies to running. It's not the hard.

You still have not shown us the passage where it says "Waaagh! Movement is Running"

Indeed. The Waaaugh! movement specifically refers to the movement made in the shooting phase. The movement made in the shooting phase is running. However, the Waaaugh! rule doesn't say "applies to running" specifically, and Gwar isn't willing to make the logical leap that running is the movement that happens during the shooting phase.

I'm not really worried about running into someone trying to argue it in real life.

Dashofpepper wrote:Indeed. The Waaaugh! movement specifically refers to the movement made in the shooting phase. The movement made in the shooting phase is running. However, the Waaaugh! rule doesn't say "applies to running" specifically, and Gwar isn't willing to make the logical leap that running is the movement that happens during the shooting phase.

I'm not really worried about running into someone trying to argue it in real life.

If they wanted it to apply to running, they would say it applies to running. They don't, so it doesn't.

Just like ramming/tank shock.

Ramming is a type of tank shock. You have to play word games to say that it isn't.

Running is the movement that happens during the shooting phase. They're still the same thing.

Calling something by two different names doesn't make it two different things. It makes it one thing with two names. You can call me a man or a male; they're the same thing. If you call me a man, it doesn't make me NOT a male, they're the same.

The movement that takes place during the shooting phase is running. Running is the movement that takes place during the shooting phase. Play word games as you like, but like I said; you're nit-picking, and the rules are clear - in this case, you're wrong.

All Rams are tank Shocks. Not all Tank Shocks are Rams. Sorry but you are wrong. If the Waaagh! movement was meant to be running, it would say it is running.

People are making this a lot more difficult than it really is.

G

First of all,

Run =/= Fleet

Notice that I capitalized them because they are in fact two separate USR in the BRB and people seem to be forgetting that in this thread.

1. Run: Is a mechanic of the shooting phase that allows movement in lieu of shooting. Determined by rolling a d6.

2. Fleet: Is a mechanic of the assault phase that allows assaulting despite having used the Run USR in the shooting phase.

Trying to bring in 4th Edition Fleet rule for an extra 6" is cheating, period. Until there is an errata or FAQ changing the wording of Ghaz's WAAGH from "fleet" to "run" then you don't take the auto 6 for anything.

Brother Ramses wrote:Trying to bring in 4th Edition Fleet rule for an extra 6" is cheating, period.

No it's not. Like every rules dispute, it can be resolved with

a) you and your opponent agreeing or

b) rolling a dice and getting a 4+

and the resolution is completely within the rules.

Orkeosaurus wrote:

Brother Ramses wrote:Trying to bring in 4th Edition Fleet rule for an extra 6" is cheating, period.

No it's not. Like every rules dispute, it can be resolved with

a) you and your opponent agreeing or

b) rolling a dice and getting a 4+

and the resolution is completely within the rules.

It's also within the rules for me to insist we play by a house rule that says on a 1+ I Nuke from Orbit and win.

The Purpose of this forum is to use the Rules as Written as a basis, not house rules.

Brother Ramses:

No one is trying to get an extra 6" of movement.

With Ghazghkull in your army, instead of rolling D6 to run, you presume 6" to run.

Gwar! wrote:

Orkeosaurus wrote:

Brother Ramses wrote:Trying to bring in 4th Edition Fleet rule for an extra 6" is cheating, period.

No it's not. Like every rules dispute, it can be resolved with

a) you and your opponent agreeing or

b) rolling a dice and getting a 4+

and the resolution is completely within the rules.

It's also within the rules for me to insist we play by a house rule that says on a 1+ I Nuke from Orbit and win.

Yeah, but on a 4+ that doesn't work.

The Purpose of this forum is to use the Rules as Written as a basis, not house rules.

Hey, the 4+ and opponent agrees rules are both written down. They're not from my house.

combatmedic wrote:
Now I do see what your trying to say here.

Sense the codex says you declare it during your shooting phase. So what you want to do is run all your boyz, then declare the waaaagh, thus eliminating the risk of that 1 roll wound.

I agree totally. The last time i played a tourney the guy threw a hissy fit that I did this. I Rolled a 1 for my RUN. Then at the end of the shooting phase I decrared Waagh. He kept insisting that I needed to remove 1 model. The ork codex was written BEFORE 5th ed when there was no such thing as run. So you HAD to declare waagh before throwing down the dice and if it was a 1 then you removed a model. As now EVERYONE gets that extra movement you can declare it after and hance it is not a WAAGH move it is just an assault after you run. That is my opinion. However the Ref took his side. Pst.

Dashofpepper wrote:Brother Ramses:

No one is trying to get an extra 6" of movement.

With Ghazghkull in your army, instead of rolling D6 to run, you presume 6" to FLEET.

Fixt!

When you use the right terminology as given in the BRB, it clears things up immensely. Since the ork codex specifically uses Fleet, you should use it as well. In the BRB, Fleet is the mechanic of the assault phase. So when you WAAAGH with Ghaz, go ahead and get an automatic 6" ASSAULT move. However when you do a regular WAAAGH, be sure and roll a d6 to see how far you can assault while having Fleet.

My mess up on adding the extra, I meant that you get the maximum 6".

olympia wrote:Waagh makes you fleet. Fleet allows you to run before you assault. Running requires you roll a d6. Ghaz gives you a 6" on that roll. As for you RAW fundamentalist--the 5TH EDITION ORK FAQ specifically addresses Ghaz's waagh--specifically that you must wait until T2 until you pop it. CLEARLY if it was meant to be ignored they wouldn't have addressed it specifically in a 5th edition FAQ.

1) waaagh makes you fleet. YUP!
2) Fleet allows you to run before you assault. YUP!
3) Running requires you roll a d6. YUP!
4) Ghaz gives you a 6" on that roll. NOPE! He gives you a 6" Waaagh move, not a 6" run move. WAAAGH=/=Run. Where does it say these are the same in the book? I can't find it.
5) yes the FAQ addresses the waaagh and restricts it to turn 2. You get a cookie. This has nothing to do with anything.

Thinking that Ghazzie's rule lets you take a 6" assault move with your army is ridiculous since everyone already gets a 6" assault move.

The Waaaugh! movement is SPECIFICALLY noted in the Waaaugh! rule on page 31 of the ork codex as happening before the assault move. If you roll a 1 during the Waaaugh! movement, you take a single wound, but you're stil allowed to move an inch, and THEN....and THEN....assault as normal. A normal assault is a 6" (or 2d6 if terrain is relevant). The move before the assault move that the Waaaugh! movement calls to...I don't care what you want to call that move, but as the Waaaugh! rule says, it happens during the shooting phase.

What movement can you make during the shooting phase that happens before the assault phase? I don't care if the word "run" is in the codex or not, its specifically outlined.

Dashofpepper wrote:What movement can you make during the shooting phase that happens before the assault phase? I don't care if the word "run" is in the codex or not, its specifically outlined.

If it were specifically outlined, it would say run. it doesn;t say run, so it does not refer to run.

Dashofpepper wrote:Thinking that Ghazzie's rule lets you take a 6" assault move with your army is ridiculous since everyone already gets a 6" assault move.

I would say almost as ridiculous of using 4th Edition Fleet rules in 5th Edition 40k.

The Waaaugh! movement is SPECIFICALLY noted in the Waaaugh! rule on page 31 of the ork codex as happening before the assault move. If you roll a 1 during the Waaaugh! movement, you take a single wound, but you're stil allowed to move an inch, and THEN....and THEN....assault as normal. A normal assault is a 6" (or 2d6 if terrain is relevant). The move before the assault move that the Waaaugh! movement calls to...I don't care what you want to call that move, but as the Waaaugh! rule says, it happens during the shooting phase.

The fact that you don't care what the move is called puts you in the RAI crowd instead of the RAW.

What movement can you make during the shooting phase that happens before the assault phase? I don't care if the word "run" is in the codex or not, its specifically outlined.

The movement is called Run. It is in the 5th Edition BRB under the USR. It isn't 4th Edition Fleet and it isn't WAAAGH movement. It is R-U-N! RAW is a isnt it?

Doods...

The rulebook is a rulebook, not a legal document required to spell out every word relating to something.

Waaaugh! says that Ork infantry models are 'fleet of foot' for the rest of their turn. That means that they can run, then assault.

Waaaugh! says that Ork models roll a D6 to see how far that they go, and if they roll a 1, they take a wound but get to go 1" anyway.

Waaaugh! says that this all happens before the assault phase.

Waaaugh! says that regardless of what happens with your rolls, Ork units can still assault as normal.


Ghazghkull says that instead of rolling a D6, you move 6".

I don't need RAI, that's RAW. There's only one movement that happens between the movement phase and the assault phase, and its the run. I don't care what 4th edition said; I didn't play during 4th edition - I started 40k after 5th edition came out. The only rules I know are 5th edition, and the 5th edition Ork codex.

Its pretty clear what's going on, and you can keep referring to other editions if you like, but the rules say what they say.


You *DO* realize that whining that because the Waaaugh! rule doesn't have the word "run" in it they can't do it is...well, really lame?
--------------------------------------
Here's another tack:

Codexes supercede the rulebook for special rules when they're more specific. RUN is a USR that applies to everyone. Waaaugh! breaks that USR down into a specific Ork action.

Dashofpepper wrote:You *DO* realize that whining that because the Waaaugh! rule doesn't have the word "run" in it they can't do it is...well, really lame?

As lame as it is, it is the rules

Dashofpepper wrote: I don't care what 4th edition said; I didn't play during 4th edition - I started 40k after 5th edition came out. The only rules I know are 5th edition, and the 5th edition Ork codex.

And herein lies your problem.

The movement that happens during the shooting phase that the Ork codex refers to WAS called Fleet of Foot that was determined by a roll of d6. The very roll that Ghaz's auto 6 refers too. Now listen closely, FLEET OF FOOT NO LONGER EXISTS!!

Get it that time?

The NEW movement done during the shooting phase is called RUN. Everyone has it now. If Ghaz's WAAAGH!! was meant to be used with RUN, it would refer to run. Since the Ork codex came out before 5th Edition, there is no way it could. However there is a 5th Edition Ork FAQ and in that document it STILL does not tell you to use the WAAAAGH!! with RUN.

How is this not only RAW, but FAQ'ed RAW?!?!?!?